gsr
Newborn Degu
Posts: 4
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Post by gsr on Mar 11, 2022 1:49:44 GMT
Hello!
I just adopted two male debus who are both about 3 years old. They have been together since the beginning.
They are:
Kiwi: the alpha one and very active and curious. Very dominant.
PewPew: very timid but slowly coming out of his shell.
I've had them for less than a week but am making great progress with both considering time (not long since they were moved to a new owner) and circumstance. Everything is going ok, but I've noticed one possible issue. The alpha one is very dominant and doesn't seem to allow PewPew any treats or water. The cage is three stories with Kiwi preferring the top floor and PewPew the bottom floor. If I try to give PewPew any treats Kiwi will storm down as soon as I open the door. He then demands treats, tries to run off to find his own or scares PewPew off and takes the treats (only solution is to keep Kiwi occupied with his own treats and hope he doesn't finish them before PewPew dares to come to me for his). This leads to me having a harder time establishing trust with PewPew. I've read that fighting over food is something you can't prevent so I'm not that worried.
What I worry about is access to water. I've placed water bottles on both the top floor and bottom floor. Neither degu will touch the water bottle on the bottom floor and don't drink a lot of water at all it seems, barely any since they moved. They both show interest in the bottle on the top floor (the former owners told me they only drink from that one). Now I see Kiwi drinking from it but not allowing PewPew to have his share. I often hear low volume grunting and exasperation coming from the cage and I saw PewPew being denied water by Kiwi a short while ago (granted it was while Kiwi was drinking, finally).
Is this something I should worry about? How can I get them to use both water bottles in order to prevent fighting and make sure both get their share of water and actually drink any? Might it be that they are not drinking much water because of their new surroundings and stress?
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Post by savvy on Mar 11, 2022 2:11:36 GMT
Welcome to the forum.
Your degus sound like they are settling really well.
You seem to have sorted the treat problem by giving the alpha his treats first, but the water bottle is another issue.
Degus tend to have big drinks twice a day, usually after feeding and more often than not late at night or early in the morning. As long as the water is going down in the bottle and there is nothing stopping them accessing the water they should be fine. Please check if the water is flowing properly in both bottles by tapping on the top and seeing if bubbles rise. If the water isn't accessible, they'll ignore the bottle.
They do tend to have favourites, favourite sitting places, favourite sleeping places and favourite bottles, but these favourites can change without consulting the human. That's degus for you! And things they've ignored for months are suddenly being used.
As a new owner you will find that degus are a steep learning curve so if you have any questions we will do our best to help. There are no silly questions when it comes to these loveable fluffy weirdos.
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Post by deguconvert on Mar 11, 2022 7:22:12 GMT
Welcome to the forum, Gsr! It sounds like you are doing well, observing and becoming acquainted with your two new companions. They are complicated little characters and it can take some doing to suss out what is going on with them at times. Like Savvy has recommended, I would also check to ensure that both bottles are flowing properly. There are times when they can develop a vacuum that prevents the water from leaving when the degus try to drink, and that is certainly not a good thing. There are times when the bottles flow too freely and leave the cage a sodden mess. Water bottles can be . . . fun.  The height of a water bottle can be an issue as well. Some degus prefer to have the bottle positioned high enough on the side of the cage that they can sit up on their haunches to drink from it. Some seem to like it a little lower. You can try different positions with the bottle in the lower portion of the cage to see if that changes their reception of it. Since you have two drinking stations, do you also have two feeding stations? We have found that having as many feeding stations as you have degus, can help to solve the problem of the dominant degu denying others access. You just need to make sure that the stations are not in sight of each other, so that it is harder for the dominant degu to actively block both stations. May I ask what kind of cage you have, and what are it's dimensions? Is it possible to block the upper area from the bottom area so that you can visit with Pewpew to build a bond with him, without Kiwi barging in? If you do such a thing, it might be an idea to give Kiwi some treats to focus on while you are interacting with Pewpew. It is possible that the interactions you see happening right now are directly linked to their recent changes in home, human, and all the things that come with this change. Kiwi might be trying to ensure that all is safe, and if so, this behavior should reduce as they adjust and become more confident in their new environment. Again, welcome to the forum! |
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Post by teemu on Mar 11, 2022 9:26:50 GMT
Like others have said, it could be either due to their behavior or because the bottles are not working correctly. Have you tested the bottles? The easiest way to see if the bottles work properly is to take one finger and tap it against the mouth of the nozzle of the bottle to see if water is coming out. Not hard, just keep tapping the opening of the nozzle gently. The bottle works by having a ball in the nozzle that prevents water from coming out, unless something moves the ball so water can flow past it. Usually it's an animal's tongue, but you can use a finger for the same purpose. If the bottle is working correctly, small amounts of water should come out with every tap, so that your finger will be wet after you've tapped it a few times. The usual reason for bottles not working properly tends to be that there is an air bubble trapped in the nozzle. Filling the bottle as full as possible, and turning it up and down a couple of times after you have closed it can help work out any air bubbles that might be left in the nozzle. If the bottle is plastic, you can also give it a couple of squeezes after you've put it in place, which will make some water come out and hopefully work out any problems with it. Some bottles can also be fussy about the position they are in, and won't work properly if the bottle is not positioned correctly. You can test this out putting the bottle against the cage with one hand (without attaching it with wire yet) and adjusting the position while you tap the nozzle with the other hand to see how the water is coming out. As has been said, they can be a bit fussy. If the bottles are working properly, then moving the unused bottle around and looking for a suitable spot and height that they want to use is what I would advise as well. Degus can be pretty picky and tend to have big personalities, so part of having them is also learning how to please them  |
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Post by bouncy on Mar 11, 2022 14:07:33 GMT
Try moving both bottles to the upper level. Degus prefer to sit up on high to keep an eye on things Do you have plastic or glass bottles? If the first, just give the bottle a squeeze until water spurts out, let go, and see if it self-regulates. If you have glass, don't fill them all the way to the top. Just leave 1cm. When you hang the bottle, give the end a smack like a ketchup bottle. Water should come out, and air bubbles appear in the bottle. If you see none, keep hitting until you do. Glass bottles are notorious for air locks. |
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gsr
Newborn Degu
Posts: 4
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Post by gsr on Mar 11, 2022 18:54:19 GMT
Thanks for all the replies and good advice! It seems that you were right about water not flowing from the bottle on the bottom floor. I checked the one on the upper floor (plastic) and it seems that they (or only Kiwi) drank a lot from that one last evening/night. The one on the bottom floor is a glass bottle and it seems that it doesn't work. I bought a new plastic one that I will install instead of the glass one. I prepared two food stations. One on the top floor and one on the bottom. They both ate and also had no issues with sharing from their bowls. They also seem to be getting used to me and interested in me at a surprisingly fast rate, which is great  About Kiwi, I'm worried that if I remove the stairs to the bottom floor he will just jump down. He is very determined to get there when I open the door on to the bottom floor. Thank you for the help and for offering to give advice when needed |
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Post by savvy on Mar 11, 2022 19:14:17 GMT
Degus are determined little guys so chances are he will make the jump if he doesn't have the stairs, he may also try climbing up and down the bars.
In cases like this, distraction is your only option, and it might not take him long to figure out you're distracting him for a reason.
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Post by deguconvert on Mar 11, 2022 21:29:56 GMT
I'm curious, is the bottom level the only location with an opening for the cage?
There could also be other reasons for his haste to get to the bottom. Do you know if they were accustomed to having play time outside of the cage? Do you always give treats when you open the cage door? If they are forming a bond with you, perhaps he really wants to have more time with you . . . along with the treats. Treats could be the only motivation though . . . degus LIVE for treats and yummy foods. He could be extremely curious about his new home and want to explore . . . in which case, you will want to be certain that there is a way to contain him if he manages to sneak out on you. A number of our members have surrounded their cages by a playpen type area that their degus cannot escape from. OR they have the degus in a room all of their own that has been checked for potential hiding/escaping places. If you want to have play time out of the cage at some time, you will need to check the area over thoroughly to ensure that there are no exposed wires, no holes or openings they can crawl into, no small spaces behind or under furniture they can become trapped in, or use as a means to avoid you. Speaking from experience . . . they are ADEPT at finding spaces to fit into, or between, and sometimes they fearlessly try narrow areas that are very dangerous to them because they can become so wedged there is no means to get themselves out. I discovered one such escape, but was there too late to help her by the time I finally located her. It is a horrible feeling.
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gsr
Newborn Degu
Posts: 4
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Post by gsr on Mar 11, 2022 23:31:01 GMT
The cage has glass windows on all three floors that I can slide to open. They were accustomed to having time out of the cage, but I don't have a safe room for them and am in the progress of finding the right playpen (have to buy wood panelings as all pet stores in my area don't have high enough wire walls and those that are high enough have too much space between bars). I'm sure Kiwi wants out to explore and also find some treats. He just escaped a few minutes ago while I was replacing the water bottles and I got him back in the cage with a few oats. He came straight to my hand to get the oats but I just placed them in the cage and he jumped back in  If I open the window at the top floor he sometimes looks around to see if he can make the jump but has never tried it. I saw them both do the same with their former owners when I visited, but they would jump on their shoulder. My thought process is to give them plenty of "outside" time when I am sure they will trust me enough to guide them with my hand and I've made a adequate playpen that they can run around in. I don't always give treats when opening the doors. My thinking is that it wouldn't be a good way because they would always expect me to give them something and get frustrated if I didn't. Kind of like training a dog. If you always give them treats for the right action they will never obey without getting something for it. Sad to hear about the one that got stuck. It must have been horrible. |
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The height of a water bottle can be an issue as well. Some degus prefer to have the bottle positioned high enough on the side of the cage that they can sit up on their haunches to drink from it. Some seem to like it a little lower. You can try different positions with the bottle in the lower portion of the cage to see if that changes their reception of it. 
