bluew
Newborn Degu
Posts: 12
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Post by bluew on Feb 26, 2022 11:20:31 GMT
Hi! My boy Doe recently developed a facial abcess (upon on his mouth, in what I called his cheek, outside the mouth). It was drained and cleaned by a vet who normally knows a bit about rodent. I have to clean the wound two times a day, which is a bit hard because the little guy is not really willing to let us help. If you have any advices about how to hold him or else, I'll be glad to hear it. However I'm posting here because I've got some doubts about the antibiotics he prescribed. It is called Flagyl, based on metronidazole but it also contains alcohol and sacharose.The vet said to give him 2,4ml two times a day during two week (which seems a lot and for a long times to me). I'm worried about the sacharose, which a kind of sugar if I'm right, and about the alcohol, I think this is affecting his behavior. What do you think ?
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Post by deguconvert on Feb 26, 2022 18:15:03 GMT
Hello, Bluew, and welcome to the forum! I'm sorry to hear about your little loves injury. I totally understand your concerns!
I am not overly familiar with that antibiotic . . . but the presence of alcohol and the sugar isn't good either. Now . . . there are some antibiotics that have sugars in them and for the sake of the treatment, it is deemed acceptable for the short term, in order to get the animal well. If you have concerns, are you able to phone your vet and ask him pointed questions about the antibiotic? "Has he used it on degus before? Is he familiar with the degus inability to process sugars?" Is this vet an exotics specialist? Just curious.
May I ask, is the abscess on the outside of the facial tissue, or does it originate from inside. I'm wondering if there is the potential that there is a molar spur that has grown into the cheek?
May I ask if Doe is your only degu? What is his age? Do you know how the abscess came to be, if not from a molar spur, was his face injured somehow? Normally, if there is another degu in the cage, we might wonder if there has been a fight that resulted in a bite that closed over and then became infected. If he is alone . . . is there a sharp object that he might have run into such as maybe tree branches that are put in for him, or a wooden hut or bridge or ledge that he has chewed on and has a sharp edge, or maybe something he has pulled into his cage?
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Post by deguconvert on Feb 26, 2022 18:17:34 GMT
Just to put out a wider question in conjunction with this post . . . is anyone familiar with other antibiotics that also contain alcohol, and is it a frequent ingredient in antibiotics?
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Post by deguconvert on Feb 26, 2022 18:23:58 GMT
The more I think about it, the more uncomfortable I feel about the alcohol in it. I just don't think it is a good combination with the physiology of the degu.
Other thoughts and opinions are needed guys.
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Post by moletteuk on Feb 26, 2022 19:08:30 GMT
I don't know, but both could be fairly standard carriers and preservatives for a drug, the amounts are likely to be small, but I honestly don't know for certain if it's OK and I don't recognise the drug name. Is titchycatnipsandwich still around or does anyone know how to get in touch with her easily? It seems to be used mainly in cats and dogs but is given to other small mammals, so I'm tempted to think it's OK.
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Post by moletteuk on Feb 26, 2022 19:10:45 GMT
Found some info for rats ratguide.com/meds/anti_infectives/amebicides/metronidazole_flagyl.phpYou could cross reference your dose with the info given above if your bottle tells you the concentration. Most of us find the best way to syringe feed or medicate is to wrap the degu in a decent sized cloth. Wrap the cloth around the degu in the style of a sausage or 'burrito' and then fold a flap over at the back and then control movement at the front with your index finger and thumb around the shoulders to stop them moving forward. It's easier said than done, but this is the most popular method, just beware of where the legs are so they don't get caught or twisted.
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bluew
Newborn Degu
Posts: 12
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Post by bluew on Feb 26, 2022 22:51:20 GMT
Thank you so much for your answers.
First about the vet, he's supposed to be an exotic vet but certainly not specialised in degus. I will call the clinic Monday as we're supposed to check the wound with the vet during the week, I'll definitely ask the questions you have suggested.
Doe had and x-ray, his teeth (molars and premolars) are a bit uneven but still fine according to the vet. However some of the teeth are growing a little backwards, the vet said it was not a major issue with a proper diet (Doe eats dried plants, hay and some seed). He didn't explain the precise cause of the abcess (which is outside his mouth).
Sadly Doe is lone degu (we had adopted a rescue boy in order to introduce them but the poor boy died because of a bad case of malocclusion) so he couldn't have been hurt by another. I don't know if it is relevant but the abcess actually appeared during one day, the morning Doe was fine and in the evening the abcess was here.
Thank you so much for providing the paper about rats, I'll check that !
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bluew
Newborn Degu
Posts: 12
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Post by bluew on Feb 26, 2022 22:55:10 GMT
We're trying with the cloth but even if Doe is really tamed he's impossible to keep still for more than a few seconds. We're trying our best but I'm so worried about the wound going bad 😔
Sorry for my spelling, English is my second language and is quite late.
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bluew
Newborn Degu
Posts: 12
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Post by bluew on Feb 26, 2022 22:59:43 GMT
Ah and Doe is around two years old, can't say for sure because I had found him in the street. He has been checked byt vets regularly (in last July and last November) and was totally fine according to them. However I suspected a dental issue because he seemed to be griding his teeth for no reason (behavior he started around July) and had a bad breath if that makes sense. I tracked his weight which was fine.
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Post by deguconvert on Feb 27, 2022 7:51:50 GMT
Bad breath, as in a bad odor coming from his mouth? If so . . . that's interesting, and kind of odd. I don't believe I ever noticed bad breath with any of my degus. Did the vet detect it? I wonder if there is an infection inside the mouth that erupted out through the cheek. Do you know if the vet had a good look inside his mouth?
Tooth grinding is a very common practice in degus that is employed at any time for any reason. It is to pass the time, to warn a fellow degu to stay back, to think, perhaps it is even a form of dental maintenance, they can be bored, happy, or angry and grinding their teeth. Kind of like it adds emphasis, LOL!
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bluew
Newborn Degu
Posts: 12
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Post by bluew on Feb 27, 2022 9:06:01 GMT
That's what I'm wondering. I told him but he said nothing about it.
Well I know those kind of grinding but this one was quite new and it worried me because it looked like what my other boy what doing when his teeth bothered him.
And I'm kind of paranoid now ^^'
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bluew
Newborn Degu
Posts: 12
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Post by bluew on Feb 27, 2022 10:05:42 GMT
I'm not sure to understand the dosage recommendation, mine is Flagyl 125mg/5ml, and I give 2.4ml twice a day. Can you tell me if its alright? The site doesn't list the concentration of the med I use. Sorry to bother.
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Post by deguconvert on Feb 28, 2022 18:49:42 GMT
Are you saying that there is 125mg of the Flagyl per every 5ml? That is really crucial information to know. I found the following on a site called petmd . . . www.petmd.com/pet-medication/metronidazole . . . and I'm not sure what to think. Metronidazole Dosage for Dogs and Cats The dosage for metronidazole in dogs and cats varies depending on its intended use and the specifics of a patient’s case. A dose range of between 5 and 25 mg/lb given by mouth is typical. Higher doses may be given once daily, while lower doses are generally given twice daily. Always follow the specific dosing instructions provided on the label of your pet’s medication and contact your veterinarian with any questions or concerns. IF you actually have as much as 125mg in each 5ml dose . . . according to the above information, your degu is getting way too much. BUT I really don't know, because I'm not sure at all how to interpret your information. Perhaps you need to call your vet again and ask what is the total amount of Flagyl in each 5ml dose. I can't imagine being as concentrated as it sounds right now.
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bluew
Newborn Degu
Posts: 12
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Post by bluew on Mar 1, 2022 1:20:55 GMT
Well I don't want to provide any false information but 125mg/5ml is written on the package. The vet said it was a child syrup (I guess that's why there is sugar in it). I called the clinic today and the assistant told me that this drug was usually given to exotic pets, including degus but I'm still weary. I haven't noticed any major side effects for now. I have an appointment Wednesday morning and will ask the vet directly.
Doe was fine this weekend but hasn't eaten much today, I had to force feed him. Hope he will be better tomorrow.
Thank you again for answering me!
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Post by moletteuk on Mar 1, 2022 11:00:13 GMT
Sorry I missed this the other day.
If we use the rat dosing info in the link I gave, which is usually the closest you will find, they mention doses of 10 to 60 mg/kg, so if we go with 40mg/kg that would be 10mg in a 250g degu, and I think that would be twice a day. So to get 10mg from a solution of 125mg/5ml that would be 5/125 *10 = 0.4ml If we compare that to the max dose mentioned on the rat info of 60mg/ kg the max dose would be 0.6ml of your solution, unless your degu is a lot bigger. I think you need to speak to the vet ASAP about the dosing.
I think the dosing info is probably accurate since the cat and dog info Deguconvert found is essentially the same rate.
It looks like digestive disturbance is a side effect.
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bluew
Newborn Degu
Posts: 12
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Post by bluew on Mar 1, 2022 20:16:15 GMT
Thank you so much for explaining the calculations! I did it again to understand how you did it and I think the vet may have miscalculated by just doing 10mg×0,25kg=2.5ml, but I might be totally wrong as I'm not familiar with math anymore.
And I feel totally stupid because you're right, I can see the loss of appetite and him being a but down. I'm very worried because it has been almost a week since I started giving him the medication, I hope we won't have long-time problems because of this ...
I has two doses to give until the appointment tomorrow but I will only give him 0.4 and see if he eats more willingly.
Thank you again, I'm very grateful for the time you both took to answer.
I'll post again after the vet appointment!
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bluew
Newborn Degu
Posts: 12
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Post by bluew on Mar 1, 2022 20:18:07 GMT
And sorry for spelling again...
And no, my boy weighs 239g currently.
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bluew
Newborn Degu
Posts: 12
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Post by bluew on Mar 1, 2022 20:41:59 GMT
Okay I'm definitely dumb and should stay away from maths! I just checked everything again and I actually made a mistake in my first post and didn't realise until now : I haven't been giving him 2,4ml but 0.24ml so the dosing should be okay.
I'm very sorry 😓
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Post by savvy on Mar 1, 2022 22:12:08 GMT
Its so easy to get confused about dose calculations so please don't worry, and your English is much better than my French. I know the EU have different rules and regulations regarding animal treatment to the UK and USA, so I'm not surprised its an unfamiliar medication.
At 239g he is a big boy, lol.
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bluew
Newborn Degu
Posts: 12
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Post by bluew on Mar 1, 2022 22:58:28 GMT
Thank you ! I'm relieved to be wrong honestly haha.
Owh. He's not that chonky in person !
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