Respiratory problems - recovery odds?

[elizna96]

Piepmuis started snuffling two weeks ago, nothing terrible because she has always been sensitive to pollen and jasmine especially seemed to make her sneeze. Nothing in her environment or diet has changed, no drafts or irritants either. My other girl isn't affected.

It turned into soft nose clicks but no chest sounds and I took her to the vet anyway. One of her lymph nodes was also quite swollen and she was put on antibiotics, no change after two doses per day for five days and something for pain and inflammation. Steamed in the bathroom twice a day as well, because her breathing was laboured.

Went back to the vet, who gave me F10 and amikacin for the nebulizer to use twice a day. It's been three days and on day two she seemed to breathe normally again (she's been her normal energetic self 90% of the time throughout and eating+drinking). Today she is breathing through her mouth even after nebulising and steaming.

I feel so bad for her, it seems unfair for her little body to struggle with breathing even when she seems otherwise okay. I lost a degu last year to a slightly upset tummy and ignorant vet, the new vet has gone out of her way to help.

I am scared to ask, but has anyone had a good outcome with respiratory problems?

[moletteuk]

Yes, don't lose hope, she can still recover. If she is mouth breathing though, she is likely to build up air in her stomach, which can cause discomfort - you can buy some simethicone drops for babies and give her a drop or two (you can't overdose), it has a different brand name in each country but it's the stuff for wind that makes the gas coalesce into burpable bubbles.

If her eating and drinking reduces, I would start her on some Oxbow Critical Care, this is incidentally the best thing for any digestive issue.

[teemu]

I know it's really easy to start trying to pre-empt how these things go, and it's easier said than done, but I would recommend not dwelling on what may come, for good or ill. For now, either outcome is possible, and only time will tell. It sounds like you're doing your best for her, so take it one day at a time.

Degus are not nearly as vulnerable to respiratory illnesses as some rodents, so I would say there is certainly hope for her. Respiratory issues can sound really scary, and they are conspicious due to all the breathing issues, but for now it does sound like things are not going in a catastrophic direction. Her infection does sound rather aggressive, but you did mention that there were better days already, so the antibiotic is doing something. Being energetic and eating and drinking is a very good sign, as those tend to be the first things that suffer when a degu is seriously under the weather.

This might sound obvious, but how's their cage looking at the moment? Is it ventilated well, and have you made sure to keep it as clean as possible during this situation? Urine buildup can really irritate the respiratory tract due to ammonia, so especially now that she's already suffering, it's very important that her living environment is clean. During sickness, I actually took out the bedding from my degu's cage and laid in newspaper, since that caused no dust and I could very quickly spot any dirty spots and quickly swap it. This is not a necessity or anything, but keeping the cage clean is.

[yasmin]

How old is she?

Because she is mouth-breathing, definitely have Simethicone for infants on hand (it is called Ovol in Canada), as moletteuk advised. A build up of gas in a degu's GI tract can be deadly. Signs of gas buildup include bloating and lying outstretched.

My thoughts:

If it is a respiratory problem caused by an infection, that should be curable with antibiotics. It may take two rounds of antibiotics to clear it. My vets prescribe Baytril for 10 days, twice a day. Fully treatable - positive outcome with degu back to normal within the 10 days of treatment.

If it is asthma, then prednisone might help. (I don't have any experience with this so not sure what the prognosis is, but expect it is positive as long as it is managed with medication.)

I have read of degus getting polyps in their noses but don't have any experience with this. I think surgery might be an option if this is the case - but not sure.

If she is older, it might be caused by molar roots growing upward and causing a blockage in her nasal passages.
Or, as my 6 year old degu Nod has just been diagnosed, it could be lung cancer. I have experience with both of these issues. X-rays are required to confirm the diagnosis - this is very risky for a degu with breathing/respiratory issues. Both of these issues are not curable but pain, inflammation can be managed with medication to extend and increase quality of life. Prognosis in the long term is poor.

Another possible cause is an enlarged heart. This too would require an x-ray to diagnose. There are heart medications that can be given to degus. I have experienced this in a couple of my degus. Prognosis is guarded - both of my degus passed away within weeks to months of diagnosis.

(BTW: Love her name "Piepmuis" - My Mom's nickname as a child was "Muis" because she was as quiet as a mouse, and as an adult my cousins referred to her as "Tante Piep".)

[elizna96]

Thank you for the advice, I'm shopping at the pharmacy after work for the baby gas drops since she did seem slightly bloated and let out a very cute but stinky fart.

As for the current state of the cage, I have removed the inside sand bath as well as the one they can access on top of the cage to minimise and dustiness, purchased carefresh natural bedding and vaccuumed every single rope and crevice while cleaning out the cage after the first vet visit. I wonder if she developed an allergy to Timothy hay, because that's what I've used for the past 3.5 years and she really dives into it. I'm stitching to eragrostis or teff when she's better.

There might even be something in her nose but I'm not sure how that would be resolved because the vet can't exactly get into the tiny nostrils. I am hopefully that the congestion clear up because she sneezes after nebulising and I steam her in the bathroom once a day as well. It's so distressing seeing her little body battling to breathe, she's extra snuggly but it also means that I can feel her little chest working hard

[elizna96]

Jan 6, 2022 3:22:01 GMT yasmin said:

How old is she?

Because she is mouth-breathing, definitely have Simethicone for infants on hand (it is called Ovol in Canada), as moletteuk advised. A build up of gas in a degu's GI tract can be deadly. Signs of gas buildup include bloating and lying outstretched.

My thoughts:

If it is a respiratory problem caused by an infection, that should be curable with antibiotics. It may take two rounds of antibiotics to clear it. My vets prescribe Baytril for 10 days, twice a day. Fully treatable - positive outcome with degu back to normal within the 10 days of treatment.

If it is asthma, then prednisone might help. (I don't have any experience with this so not sure what the prognosis is, but expect it is positive as long as it is managed with medication.)

I have read of degus getting polyps in their noses but don't have any experience with this. I think surgery might be an option if this is the case - but not sure.

If she is older, it might be caused by molar roots growing upward and causing a blockage in her nasal passages.
Or, as my 6 year old degu Nod has just been diagnosed, it could be lung cancer. I have experience with both of these issues. X-rays are required to confirm the diagnosis - this is very risky for a degu with breathing/respiratory issues. Both of these issues are not curable but pain, inflammation can be managed with medication to extend and increase quality of life. Prognosis in the long term is poor.

Another possible cause is an enlarged heart. This too would require an x-ray to diagnose. There are heart medications that can be given to degus. I have experienced this in a couple of my degus. Prognosis is guarded - both of my degus passed away within weeks to months of diagnosis.

(BTW: Love her name "Piepmuis" - My Mom's nickname as a child was "Muis" because she was as quiet as a mouse, and as an adult my cousins referred to her as "Tante Piep".)

I've been following Nod's Journey! I am concerned about a possible heart problem because nothing points to teeth issues (I want her xrayed in the future in any case). Nothing in the environment has changed recently so it might also just be some sudden allergy to the hay. Pieps is three and a half years old, I've read that this is usually the age at which they start showing health problems.

Either way, I'm checking in with the vet again on Monday and hoping for improvement before then, because I cannot let her suffer like this indefinitely.

I named her pieps because she squeaked at every little movement I made in bed the first week that she was in my room, and the name stuck. She chirps so much and sometimes even in her sleep, my little bird.

[savvy]

I had a degu, Dixie, on prednislone for almost a year following a diagnosis of rhinitis, here's a link to the thread deguworld.proboards.com/thread/23016/dixie

The key thing is finding a vet who will fight for you, not against you. The first vet he saw as an emergency appointment, wanted to put him to sleep there and then, my regular vet, gave me an extra year with him.

[elizna96]

Man what a rollercoaster, poor Dixie! It's the same with pieps, last night I thought she was going to pass away and stayed up until early morning with her, nevulised before work with meds and said goodbye not k owing if I would see her alive again.

Rushed home from work because my mom said she looked really bad, came into the room to find her slightly squinty but not breathing with sounds. I gave her colic drops and some porridge which she scarfed, she even faster in her roommate's face. Maus looked very offended lol.

I've nebulised with saline again now and she sneezed a lot, her nose is whistling now and then but she's definitely not mouth breathing anymore. I feel like I'm going crazy, but I can't imagine how the poor goo must feel. I hope the medicine is kicking in and causing lasting improvements

[moletteuk]

I also had good results with steroids in various circumstances, if she's at death's door again tomorrow I would speak to the vet about trying a steroid injection. She would need to be off any metacam for 24 hrs before she could have a steroid though.

It could also be a viral infection, which you would just need to ride out.

Are you keeping her nice and warm 24hrs a day? Heatpad is great for this when you aren't in and at night.

[elizna96]

Thank you, I will keep that in mind

I've added extra fleece strips and blankets for her, she seems to crawl into her little fleece tent and get out again not long after, it is summer here and very hot so I don't want to risk overheating her

[bouncy]

Do you have air conditioning turned on at home?

[elizna96]

No, my room is at the right temperature with a fan on, it doesn't blow on them and there are wind breaks so no drafts reach the cage

[bouncy]

That's cool. Air conditioning can sometimes contribute to chest problems, so I thought I would check

[elizna96]

That's true, thank you for the suggestion nonetheless!

[yasmin]

How is Piepmuis doing?

[deguconvert]

OH YES!! I would like to know as well! It's been a number of days since we last heard from you. What has transpired in those days?

[elizna96]

Hi. I haven't even thought of posting an update, I've just been having a really hard time grieving her loss.

In the week leading up to the 14th the vet advised that I should stop with the medication and just use the nebuliser because she didn't seem to be improving. She was slowly becoming a bit fussy and eating and drinking less. I had a hard time getting her to take anything from a syringe in the last week and eventually made the final call to the vet. I never let it get to a point where she had begun to starve or gone without food or water though. We spent the whole day together, I groomed her while she napped on a warm water bottle wrapped in a soft blanket and I gave her colic drops for the gas.

We took xrays to at least know what caused her infection and it was her roots, in her sinuses. Her lower roots were overgrown as well. They also showed that her poor tummy had become bloated because of her mouth breathing. At least the infection had cleared up. Inside her mouth the teeth were still perfect and the vet assured me that she would not have been in any pain until she had the infection. It was genetic and I still feel like there must have been something that I could have done sooner, if I had ignored my trusted breeder to whom I have always gone for advice.

My sweet girl was her calm and gentle self and sat on the vet's shoulder that day, I held her after the anaesthesia and injection until she stopped breathing and for a long time afterwards. It feels as if I've let her down and the loss is immense. Thank you for the help and support offered in a time of need

[savvy]

I am so very very sorry! But I think you made the right call for your little girl.

There is very little that can be done about overgrown roots and they are a problem for many degus, especially if the exposed teeth are showing no overgrowth. You did all you could, you gave her the best life you could, you loved her and kept her warm.

Rest in peace little Piepmuis, you have been loved and will be missed. There's a cosy degu pile just over the rainbow bridge.

[elizna96]

Thank you

[deguconvert]

OH I'M SO SORRY! This just breaks my heart for you! If I could, I would wrap you up in a great big hug. I am truly sorry for your loss, Elizna96.