My Girls Fighting

[Iain]

I couldn't do without having Goo's in my life and a local sanctuary heard about me and said they had four baby girls looking for their forever home and I just had to snap them up once I had gotten them two new hutches (joined together).

I haven't posted on these boards for nearly a year as the loss of my two original babies Ellie and Bo was just devastating for me.

Anyhoo! I knew there would be dominance issues (BTW - at work just now so the boss thinks I'm actually doing something constructive. I'll post up plenty of pics when I get home tonight).

Anyway! One of the girls Zhara got what can only be described as a "Right Kicking" from one of her sisters (got a good idea who the culprit was) and ended up with a large bite to her left rear leg which ended up being operated on when it wou'd'nt stop bleeding (got so bad I was seriously worried about blood loss) and then a large clot/cist developed but she's totally fine now and running about like nothing happened although the shaved bald spot on her hip is a dead give away. Was heart breaking watching her trying to get back with her sisters as I had her separated whilst her leg healed. Still keeping an eye on her though.

The other night I was sitting there watching the "Four Degus of the Apocalypse" doing their mad type things and noticed that Isis (she's the bully at times and I am sure the one that gave Zhara a kicking) had blood on her head and when I managed to get her I saw she had a bite to her left ear which looked quite nasty but not too bad once I got it cleaned up - much to her disgust. I clean it every day/2nd day but there is a distinct hole in her ear lobe now so will that affect her? She is acting like she doesn't have a care in the world and the wound is as clean as I can get it and no obvious signs of infection.

If I have the slightest doubt (getting there TBH) I'll whip her into the vet but looking about the general consensus seems to be to leave such wounds/bites alone so just looking for advice/thoughts for my and her own peace of mind.

Thanks

[teemu]

Ear injuries are not too uncommon in degus. Ears tear easily and look mighty dramatic, but it denerally doesn't really affect the degu at all. The location is a pretty safe one to be injured in, in general. So if it looks like it's fine and hasn't become inflammed or infected, you probably don't need to do anything but keep an eye on it until it heals up. My Pulla got his ear torn up by his brother while young, and it has never bothered him at all.

The bite sounds like a pretty serious fight injury, though. It's good that it got patched up without issues, but definitely keep an eye on more things like that happening. Injuries of that seriousness are not normal social squabbling, and you might have to consider separating the girls if they're actually causing serious, potentially life-threatening damage to each other.

Another thing you might want to keep a careful eye on is their hands. Degu fingers are really slender and petite, and degu teeth are very strong. Not a good combination when they often push at each other or get into boxing matches while fighting...

[bouncy]

Nice to hear from you again Iain!

I'm so glad you have good again

Regarding the wounds, keep them clean, and watch out for any signs of infection. Beyond that, it's up to you!

Your girls will be having a time with their new surroundings, which has probably helped to make them unstable. New home, noises, scents..... Time will tell, but you should keep an eye on them for anything more serious. Re your habitat, I seem to remember an unusual set up involving a tree? It may be that this number of girls may be struggling with space? Forgive me if I remember incorrectly

[savvy]

Nice to hear from you again.

You say that they are babies, but do you know how old they are? This could be a combination of new territory and the beginning of adolescence.

[Iain]

Hi Teemu/Savvy

I got rid of that tree thingy ages ago and my Royal Python Shammi (he's kept in a separate room)has claimed it.

My girls are just over a year old now (shows how long I've been away from these forums) and they were 8wks old when I got them last December 31st so they've been in their x2 hutches for that time.

The problematic one is Isis and I will post up a "welcome" thread when I get home as she will push her sisters away to get to me first and any treats that are going. But there was no sign of extreme violence and certainly to this full on Ninja level before. They squabbled but it was over in a flash and back to playing and snuggle time.

I honestly think she pushed one of her sisters too far this time and came off worst for a change. I am keeping a close eye on it and any doubts I have and she's off to the vet whether she likes it or not which she won't.

Going back to Zhara and the bite on her leg - it was weird as I could see spots of blood on the shelfs and their nest box, etc, etc but when I got a hold of them one by one I could not see a thing on any of them and was perplexed for a day or two and then I just happened to look at her one night and was like "WTH is that on her foot" and it was blood so she was out of there and off to the vet as I could see that it was coming from her thigh. Upshot is she was on oral antibiotics (she loved that - NOT) for a week and isolated in on of the hutches but the wound was not healing and the bleeding was getting worse and I was really starting to panic and a 2nd vet trip was in order but more of the same with antibiotics and keeping the wound clean. So! back to the vet for the 3rd time where the decision was made to operate the next day and I got the hairy wee madam back the day after that. She remained in isolation until last weekend where the plan was to re-introduce her slowly to see how it but I blinked and she was straight in with her sisters and got loads of cuddles and kisses and all was good in their world until Isis got owned by one of the other two as Zhara was exploring the new toy filled hutches they now had.

I keep saying this but I really should have got Goldfish.

[savvy]

At a year old they are slap bang in the middle of adolescence (think moody, stroppy teenagers!)

I have four girls, three in one group and a single who will (hopefully) be introduced to the other group in the fullness of time, and I can say with all honesty that when they are on heat its hormonal chaos! Luckily mine are through adolescence, but add that into the mix and its a fun few days - not.

You say you have them in hutches, how big are they and are they degu escape proof?

[deguconvert]

Hello Iain! It is good to see you again, and I am glad to know your home still has the fun of degus in it!!

I, too, am going to ask about your cages and their sizes. If the hutches you are using are the P@H cage that they used to sell all the time for degus, wracking my brain and can't shake the name out it's been that long since I last thought of them . . . anyhow . . . they are much too small for degus. While I can't see them online at the P@H stores, I am sure they can still be found. With four degus in one cage you need a lot more surface area for them to run about on. If the space is too small, the fighting can get ferocious and even deadly. You can have heaps of food in there, and they will still fight to reduce their numbers to ease the pressure on their habitat. It is instinctive.

What are the dimensions of the cages you have, and how many complete levels do you have within?

[savvy]

deguconvert the cage you're thinking of is the Thickets.

[Iain]

Thanks guys!

The Goon Squads' hutches as they are are 14' long by 6' tall by 3'wide. There are 6 levels. I plan on adding another 6' by 6' by 6' hutch to the right side once the home improvements are done.

[savvy]

I'm confused, can you check you're measurements for me please? My lounge is only 13ft and I've two adventura cages in there with room for three more. It could be the angle of the photo, but they don't look 14ft long to me and I'm trying to get a perspective of space.

[moletteuk]

Is that regular Thicket's cage on the right and a double height version of the same on the left? The single on the right should be 90cm long, by 45cm deep, by 60cm high, can you check that for me, please, and then I can work out the running space?

[moletteuk]

If my figures are correct you are way below our recommended running space for 4 degus. I make your running area 90 x 45cm x 2 = 8100 sq cm or running area. Unfortunately, the smaller shelves are too small to count towards running space. Our minimum recommendation for 4 degus is 19,000 sq cm or in other words just under 2 square metres of running space.

You could fairly easily add a full area mid height shelf to the taller section, which would bring you up to ~ 12,000sqcm.

[Iain]

I'll double check when I finish a night shift (got asked for overtime).

[bouncy]

I remember Iain had issues with space. His first good had their home expanded by a tall addition that was filled with a tree that they used to race up and down. That's apparently gone to his python. We need to be creative with footprint in our suggestions.......

It looks like a Thickets and a John Hopewell. An immediate way to increase running space, the shelves can be turned into full levels! Wheel aside (which you could leave open/full height), you can fit one extra full level in the Thickets, and two in the Hopewell - you'll be on your way to some very happy goobies!

Edit: make sure they don't develop their PWD with dinosaurs and NCC1701D to motivate them!

[Iain]

Space was/is an issue and where the heck I got 14' from I have no idea.

I'll be able to get exact measurements once I get up after a night shift which I have'nt done for years but Eleanor seemed to like as she had the bed all to herself.

When time allows (off for some A/L in two weeks) I will add the extra mid shelf to the taller hutch and I have a similar one in storage just waiting to be added to the right side once space allows. TBH I just need the time to get it done and the furballs will be happier (as will I). Kinda hard to do any carpentry with one good arm/shoulder which is still giving me grief nearly two years after surgery with more on the horizon once this Covid Pandmic is history.

As for the Dinosaurs/Enterprise I was tempting fate when I put them on top of the hutches and they're on thick wooden shelves so curious little mouths can't nibble on them.

[bouncy]

We all appreciate the time thing, and I certainly know the arm problems - i need more surgery too.

I had these visions of goos leaving dinos to be tripped over, or hovering past on space ships