how to prepare the cage for posibly pregnant degu?

[lindie]

Oct 10, 2021 15:56:20 GMT winic1 said:

Think of baby degus as miniature, fully-functional adult degus, but without a functioning, thinking, brain.
Kind of like toddlers on espresso. They can get into everything, but don't know any of the dangers.

sounds like it is going to be really interesting. It is a good thing that most of my classes are still online so I can supervise!

[lindie]

Oct 9, 2021 21:43:48 GMT winic1 said:

Can you find a Snugglesafe Pet Heating Pad in your country, or that you could order in? It's a hard plastic disk with a soft fuzzy cover. You heat it in the microwave, and it holds its heat for up to 12 hours. This would provide warmth for your goos when you are not home and can't run your heater.
Here is a link to what I am talking about. This is amazon.com in the USA, but maybe you can find one that you can order?
www.amazon.com/Snuggle-Safe-Pet-Microwave-Heating/dp/B00008AJH9

If you can find one, you wouldn't put it right in/under their nest, to make sure they didn't get too warm, but right next to it, or halfway under another nest/house, so they could feel the warmth by being next to it, or go on or off of it when they chose.

I found one from Trixie which is originally for dogs (https://petsplace.nl/trixie-warmtekussen-voor-de-magnetron-hondenverzorging-4047974287927-pps.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjwwY-LBhD6ARIsACvT72O4651A3_cCwv8r8Ff8Sq6a3X1xDOurN9OEpVlOAe1Etx5RYddb0CMaAqwHEALw_wcB) 

Is this one degu proof? Or do I need the name brand

[winic1]

Oct 11, 2021 17:58:34 GMT lindie said:

Oct 9, 2021 21:43:48 GMT winic1 said:

I found one from Trixie which is originally for dogs (https://petsplace.nl/trixie-warmtekussen-voor-de-magnetron-hondenverzorging-4047974287927-pps.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjwwY-LBhD6ARIsACvT72O4651A3_cCwv8r8Ff8Sq6a3X1xDOurN9OEpVlOAe1Etx5RYddb0CMaAqwHEALw_wcB) 

Is this one degu proof? Or do I need the name brand

That appears to be the exact same thing.  The snugglesafe is a thick hard plastic disc (with the warming stuff inside) with a fleece cover.  It isn't exactly degu-proof, so you have to just keep an eye on it to see if they decide it should be chewed.  With the fleece cover on it, they have to chew through the fleece first, before they could possibly chew on the disc itself, so you have warning.  If you added an extra layer of cover, by wrapping it in a towel or piece of fleece, then that would take them even longer to get to the disk, should they decide to.  They may not.  They may be so relaxed by the warmth that they don't feel like chewing it.

[bouncy]

Very true! The cover on my snuggle safe, as well as the ones I made for my metal plug in ones are still totally intact!

[lindie]

I just remembered that I won't have a microwave when I move to my tiny house in januari/februari. And since I am on a tight budget I don't wan't to purchase something I can only use for a couple of months.

And i also removed the branches from the cage yesterday

[winic1]

maybe experiment with warming a brick, in your oven or on a heater (if your heater is something you could just sit some bricks on to let them warm up), and then wrapping that in fleece or towel to put in their cage?
If you think this might work, just be careful what you choose--some rocks, concrete, pottery, etc is NOT meant to be heated (and can crack or even sort of explode if overheated), make sure you get something that is (like fireplace bricks).

[teemu]

Fireplace bricks and sauna stones (not sure how the sauna culture is like where you are located, but if they have them) would both work well like Winic says. Generally speaking, dense, heavy stones like marble or granite, and specifically made bricks, can withstand heat well.

[deguconvert]

Be sure you wrap them well, and don't over heat them. You don't want to risk burning anyone.

[lindie]

Oct 12, 2021 14:47:17 GMT teemu said:

Fireplace bricks and sauna stones (not sure how the sauna culture is like where you are located, but if they have them) would both work well like Winic says. Generally speaking, dense, heavy stones like marble or granite, and specifically made bricks, can withstand heat well.

I have this granite cooling stone for my degus and guinea pigs (https://www.drdknaagdierwinkel.nl/en/granite-granite-20-cm.html), I am going to try to put it in the oven on low heat and see if it works.

[deguconvert]

Make sure you wrap it with cloth to protect them from potential burns. I'm sure you already have a plan for that.

[bouncy]

Any sign yet?

[moletteuk]

If you can fully and carefully protect where any cables leave the cage, a plug in heater or lamp or flat metal heatpad would probably be simplest.

[lindie]

Here is a quick update.

yesterday I noticed that Remi was a bit less active than Ethel, she was running less in the wheel and only for a max of 10 minutes at a time. So yesterday night was the first time that I blocked the entrance to the lower cage, and they spend the night in the 'boring' baby-proof upper cage. I put a food dish with fresh sand over the plank which blocked the entrance to the lower cage, So every time they went to the blocked entry they saw the fresh sand and took a bath instead of angry trying to get down. (My degus love fresh sand)

My degus are in my bedroom, so I plan to block off the entry to the lower part of the cage when I am not at home(in my bedroom) or asleep, and unblock the entry when I am at home in my room. When the babies are born the lower part of the cage will always be blocked off until the babies are old enough.

Today I noticed that Remi is moving a bit slower than normal, I wouldn't say she is wobbling, but there has defiantly been a little change. I also have not seen her in the wheel today and when she stood up I saw that her nipples are a bit bigger (I still have to move her fur with my finger to see them)

Since the weather has not been that cold or windy my room has been around 21 degrees (during the day and night) for the last few days which is good.

Tomorrow it has been 90 days since I picked them up, So if she has not had her babies by Monday it means she got pregnant while she was with me which I feel a bit guilty about. When I got them I did not want to separate them immediately because of how stressful moving is, and I thought the chance that they were not pregnant and would get pregnant after I got them was very small. And also because I had been looking for a home for the male, but could not find one which meant he would sit alone when I separated them. So I separated them 2 weeks later after is saw several times the male mate with either Remi or Ethel.

Because of this I think that she either has a smaller litter and they are born before Tuesday (On Monday I have them 93 days). Or that she has a larger litter and she got pregnant in the last few days that the male was with them, which would mean the babies are not coming for 1,5 weeks.

[deguconvert]

I'm going to post an idea. IF the cage that the three of them were inhabiting in their previous home was very little . . . they may not have mated before then because the space was too small to accommodate more numbers. OR it could be that the food supply was too small or unreliable or lacking in nutrition, which is a factor that effects mating in the wild. Anyway, maybe there was something in their previous environment that prevented mating, and that changed for the better when they came into your home?

[lindie]

That could be a possibility.After I got them i was not able to find a cage right away, so it took me around a week to find one. and a few days after I moved them to the new cage I saw the male mate with the girls for the first time.

I wouldn't know if they had enough food in their previous home. I do know that they were fed cornflakes and he told me to only feed degu food which means he fed degu food, but I did not saw the food. He also gave me all their stuff except their food, which gives me the idea that he was out of food at that moment.

The care was not good, their cage was quite dirty, I didn't see any hay, only one of the two water bottles had water and they smelled quite bad (i got them new bottles).

The cage they were in was not extremely tiny. It was something like 60 cm long, 80cm high and 40 cm in width. Or something like that

And the most important thing was that they were unhappy. Ethel would scratch and chew the bars for hours, and they were chewing through everything. This is also who I believe they are so in love with their wheel because before they were so bored and stressed. when i just got their wheel I could not get them out, they would not even get out when i needed to re attach. I and ended up trying to attach te wheel with both of them in it.

So it could be a possibility they did nit breed because of the surcomstances. But I would not know.

[lindie]

Also, this morning I didn't unblock the entrance because I had class and am away in the morning. But they started climbing the bars, and I was worried that Remi would slip and fall on her baby belly. So I unblocked the entrance even though I am not at home.

What would you do? leave the entrance unblocked when I am away so they don't clime the bars and accidentily hurt themselfs, or allow them in the not baby proofed lower cage?


And what do i need to do when i find babies? I know i need to count the babbies, but can i touch/move them for this?
And I am not sure if i can pick them up to check for abnormalities, or that I should not interact with them at all. And for how long then? And can I remove the dirty toilet paper from their nest?

When my guineau pig had babies I picked both the mum and babies up to check them and weight them. And I replaced the fleece pad under their house.

Are degus like guinea pigs, and you can pick the babies up, or are they more like hamsters where you don't want to interupt them at allm

[teemu]

According to Degutopia, you should generally not handle them unless needed in the beginning, as disturbing them or removing them from their mother can cause a great deal of stress to both the babies and the mother and lead to developmental issues. Of course, if you see a dangerous situation or some issue, you should fix it, but generally it's best not to disturb them without need. The mother won't abandon the babies or anything, it's just that they are very susceptible to stress in the first three weeks of their life. So it's better if you can count them without moving them.

Degutopia does advice, though, that the babies should be weighed once a week, starting a couple of days after their birth, but only in the presence of the mother, so you can monitor their development. There's weight tables on the site for general expected weight development as well. I'm not sure what would be the best way to do it, so maybe someone can advice with that.

You probably should not hide your presence from them, though, since it's good if they can get used to humans right from the start. You can interact with the adults normally, and if a baby actually wants to inspect you, then that's probably fine (if you're careful not to spook them, probably best if you keep your hand still and make no moves towards them at all). They are very curious, so if they actually come over to look at your hand, then sure, let them do it and see that it's safe to approach.

As for the cage climbing issue, that's a tough one certainly. There's risks involved in both...

Here is the Degutopia page on babies: www.degutopia.co.uk/degubreedhow.htm

[winic1]

All you really need to do when the babies are born, is to keep watch that they don't wander far from the nest the first few days, not so far that the mother doesn't notice, because they can easily get too cold out in the cage. Make sure that the mom has plenty of food, and extra seeds and nuts because now she is feeding herself and the babies. Keep an eye out for hazards or problems you may not have thought of or noticed while babyproofing.

You don't really have to count them, or weigh them, right away. It's so hard not to, but degus have had and raised babies without being counted or weighed, for centuries. If it looks like a big pile of babies in the nest, give mom even more extra nutrition, until you know for sure how many.

Don't worry about cleaning the nest, at least not for several days. Then you can judge what it needs, if anything.

As for you other adults missing their wheel, now is the time to come up with every other enrichment activity that you can think of. New things to explore and chew--cardboard tunnels? Treats hidden inside well-packed toilet paper tubes or sections of egg cartons? Little chunks of wood (twigs, branches cut into bits) for them to chew and carry?

(also, be aware that Degutopia has not been updated in many years, due to the illness and then passing of the owner of the site. Often not the best source of information on degus, nowadays.)

[lindie]

I have read the page on degutopia, but I wanted to ask on the forum as well, as I thought maybe people think differently about it here, and it doesn't hurt to get as much information as possible.

About the enrichment, I don't know what to give them because most things they already have and have had it for a while.

The things they have are:
- different toys to carry around and chew
- hanging chew toys
- pieces of (safe) wood
- twigs
- cardboard tunnels
- hazelnut bendy bridge
- stones
- toilet rolls with treats and hay

And I hide their science selective pellets under the hay for them to find during the night.

During the day when they have access to their wheel Ethel runs 90% to the time in it when she is awake, Remi does not run that much in the wheel anymore (I guess because of her big belly) so I see her foraging and finding new items to chew when she is awake. They have most items in both of the cages. And although Remi is always busy with the enrichment items when she has access to both of the cages, she still climes the bars with Ethel in the morning when she does not have access to the lower part of the cage.

[savvy]

You may find that for the first couple of weeks after the pups arrive that they won't need much enrichment as they'll be busy with the pups. Degus all tend to muck in together when it comes to little ones.