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Post by savvy on Sept 30, 2021 13:16:58 GMT
If she is pregnant she's unlikely to show significant signs until about 7-10 days before she gives birth. Degus are masters at hiding things, especially anything which makes them vulnerable such as illness and/or pregnancy.
We have had owners on here whose degus have shown no signs of pregnancy at all, in fact a few were convinced their degus were male until the saw that they had given birth.
I'm afraid you are just going to have to play the waiting game.
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Post by deguconvert on Sept 30, 2021 18:02:13 GMT
I am one that did indeed believe her degus were male, until the day I discovered pups . . . actually my daughter discovered them because one was wandering around in the cage and she screamed . . . I came running. LOL! Because we don't know if they had been born only hours before we found them, or if they were born up to a couple of days before we discovered them, there was ample time for the confirmed males (IE they actively cleaned their male parts in public) to re-impregnate the vet confirmed males that had both given birth within that time frame. I can tell you, that I did not see any signs of pregnancy with that first litter, but I was on the alert for signs in the second litters, and I could definitely see them. Especially in the latter half to third of the gestation. When I look at your photos, I see a degu that is pregnant and that may deliver pups any time in the next 2-4 weeks.
I could be wrong. As the others have said, they hide their condition very well, but most degus do not put on so much weight in such a short time frame, unless they are either pregnant or they have some other serious condition such as diabetes.
I don't remember my girls showing blood, but I was very careful and chose to have very little handling of them through their second litter because they are precarious, and a small fall or bump can cause a rupture to the uterus if they are carrying a large litter. Our litters were all very consistently around the 5-6 pups size, and one was 7. Even so, all the pups are fully formed with eyes that open as soon as they are born, so those bodies are PACKED in there. They are active right away, and insanely driven by curiosity. Having the barriers around your cage walls is crucial for their health and safety. It is also good to keep the room they are in warm, as they are unable to regulate their own body temperature for the first 4 weeks of their life. Check them often to make sure pups haven't wandered off and become disoriented and lost . . . check their body to see if they are cool to the touch. If they are, pop them in your shirt, or warm them in your hands, and then return them to the nest. Don't warm them with water . . . they are not good swimmers . . . perhaps it's better to just say, they are NOT swimmers at all. I personally wouldn't want to risk getting water in the little ones lungs. IF you have a cool pup and your hands are cool as well, and you have no safe place in your shirt to place it . . . quickly warm your hands in water as warm as you can bear, dry hands, and warm the pup. I liked to have a soft cloth that I would lightly tuck the pup into and then tuck the both of them into my bra. But you have to be vigilant about the pup. If it starts moving around, take it out and return it to the nest.
That's probably more information than you needed today. LOL!
I appreciate that you are keeping such a close eye on your girls!
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Post by winic1 on Sept 30, 2021 19:12:46 GMT
I would add that you should probably stop picking her up, or handling her, at this point, except when absolutely necessary. And then, let her crawl onto your hand and gently cup her, rather than a grabbing-style hold. You want to minimize any pressure or pushing on her belly, if it is full of pups this could be uncomfortable or painful for her, or possibly even harmful. Pregnant degus have been known to bite when handled, probably because it is hurting them at that point. If you want to move her, to the scale or a travel cage or whatever, see if you can get her to walk into a tube or jar or box on her own, and lift her that way.
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lindie
Foraging Degu
Posts: 107
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Post by lindie on Sept 30, 2021 19:55:55 GMT
aww, I know what it is like finding surprise animals. When I was a little girl, my parents bought me my first two guinea pigs from a pet store. After a while one got bigger than the other, and my parents put it on a 'diet' (which luckily did not harm her). And a few days later we found some surprise baby guinea pigs. I am very careful with all of my animals and do my best to give them the best care I am capable of. I truly believe that when you take in an animal it is your responsibility to provide them with the best care you are capable of. And if you can't provide them with at least everything they need for a happy and fulfilled life, then you should not get this animal. Their whole life they depend on you, and although they are just a small part of your life, you are their whole life. And although I would like to give them more (bigger cage, better food), I still think I am doing well with the resources I have. It means a lot to me what you said that you appreciate it that I keep a close eye on my girls. When I handle my girl I always let them walk in a cardboard tube and cover the holes with my hands, I then take out the tube, sit on the ground, uncover the holes and let them clime out onto my lap. I hope this is careful enough and can't harm her little baby belly (in case she is pregnant) I know that I sometimes am a bit too careful and worry a bit too much about my animals, so that is probably is why I stressed so much about the blood, and monitor them so close. Which I will continue to do . I am not that worried about the little bit of blood anymore, if I see that her behavior change than I will take her to the vet again. About the temperature, what temperature do you recommend keeping the room? In the winter it can get quite cold in my room, but I always try to keep it above 16 degrees celscius. Would this be okay? or should I look into getting a heat lamp for them.
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Post by teemu on Sept 30, 2021 23:59:38 GMT
16 celsius is quite low for a degu. The info I've seen varies, but generally it seems that the advice is to keep them at around 18-20 celsius. My house is a bit warmer than that, and they have never suffered ill effect from it (other than during the hottest parts of summer when I have to start cooling the house). Getting a heat lamp is probably a good idea for those cold winter times, or possibly a radiator unit. They will also greatly appreciate it if you can get them a pet heat pad, like a Snugglesafe or a similar product. My degus absolutely adore those! Another thing you might want to look into is if your house is drafty. Draft isn't good for them, so preventing them from suffering drafts is important. The easiest way to do this would be to elevate the cage, since it's usually the floor level that's draftiest. Proofing windows and other nooks and crannies will help too. In general, though, it sounds like you've got your things sorted well with your girls. I agree with the sentiment that when you get an animal, you also accept the responsibility for their life - after all, they depend wholly on you to care for them in captivity. Degus also seem to have an amazing ability to make their humans stress over them endlessly! Using the tube to take them out and letting them move as they want sounds good too. It might be a good idea to mostly handle her in her cage, though, but if you need to move her, the tube should be a safe option. The biggest risk that she might face is probably if she falls from somewhere, which can happen with degus since they are agile animals, but sometimes not as agile as they seem to think they are - especially if they have a belly full of babies. You should monitor her playtime and activities carefully, and adjust her environment if it starts looking like she's putting herself at risk. But in general it sounds like you're doing great
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lindie
Foraging Degu
Posts: 107
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Post by lindie on Oct 1, 2021 10:19:57 GMT
What heat lamp would you recommend. I need a lamp that i keep on during the night without it lighting the whole room.
And would it be okay if the lamp only keeps a part of the cage warm?
I just remembered we already have a heating plate for ckicks. What if i took the legs of and put it ontop of (wire) cage and make a little shelf/house beneath it? They would not be able to chew it, and keeps the shelf nice and cozy. best scenario thet would build their nest on the shelf/house.
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Post by bouncy on Oct 1, 2021 10:43:37 GMT
You can get reptile heaters with a guard. It's black ceramic, gives off no light, and fits like a light bulb. You could also look at Petnap Flexiguard. Mine have one for each group and love it.
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Post by moletteuk on Oct 1, 2021 16:00:27 GMT
The heating plate you have might be suitable, it depends how much heat it gives off aS to whether it will work placed above them or if they need to be able to sit on it.
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lindie
Foraging Degu
Posts: 107
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Post by lindie on Oct 1, 2021 17:38:31 GMT
The heat plate is designed for chicks to sit underneath it (sort of like a mum chicken).I would put it on top of the cage in the bars and make a shelf below it. I need to ask my dad how hot it gets, and than i can figure out how high to place the self so that it is around 22 degrees on the self. The rest of the cage would still be below 18 degrees during the night, but warming up my whole room is not really an option.
I had not thought of the heat plate before. But it would save me some money, and i only need a temporary solution because i am moving in Januari
Luckily it isn't winter yet, so the temperature is still okay
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lindie
Foraging Degu
Posts: 107
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Post by lindie on Oct 9, 2021 17:26:43 GMT
Hi, A quick update. Remi's belly has really grown and I felt her nipples yesterday (when handing her a treat I can feel her belly while she stands up to reach for the treat). So I think it is safe to say she is pregnant.
I have not weighed her yet. Tomorrow I am going to put the scale in their cage and see if she walks on it for a treat. I am not going to take her out of her cage anymore, Although the floor is degu proof I don't want to chase her when she does not want to go back. I will also upload a few more pictures tomorrow of her big belly to Flickr so you can see her.
I don't know how long it is going to take before the babies arrive. She is still active and not grumpy at all so I think longer than a week. I already removed a few ledges from the cage and make sure the room is always nice and warm (which my parents are not the biggest fan of since I have the oil heater every night and morning, I can only keep the oil heater on when I am in the room because of fire safety (I live in a very old house) so I hope it is a warm autumn this year). I am debating if I am already going to remove the two levels in the upper part of the cage since they love sleeping up there but they are not baby proof. I think I am going to move the wheel to the lower part of the cage tomorrow since the lower level of the cage will be blocked off when the babies are born so they can still use it until then.
The degus are not chewing the cardboard barrier I put around the nest which is good. When the wheel is gone I can also cover the bars on the other side of the barrier with cardboard, although I don't know how necessary this is because the space between the bars is 1cm, and I can't imagine that the babies are soo small.
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Post by bouncy on Oct 9, 2021 17:49:14 GMT
If her nipples are showing, I'd say you only have a couple of weeks at the most, but possibly any day! Just keep checking her nest for little furry bundles of trouble, and make sure you're ready Oh, and we adore pup pics
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Post by winic1 on Oct 9, 2021 21:30:18 GMT
So you are saying that the wheel will NOT be in the section that the babies are in, right? Wheels are dangerous for babies, they can get crushed underneath and behind them, and tossed off a spinning wheel.
Babies can squeeze through the smallest of spaces. They are very tiny when first born, yet capable of walking and climbing about. Better safe than sorry.
Have you given her loads of toilet paper or something similar for her to build a warm, soft, comfy baby nest with? Just make sure that whatever you give is plain white, unscented, no lotions in it.
As for how much time you have, you might have a couple of weeks, you might have a couple of days, you might have a couple of hours. With our first small animal, which was a hamster (who was sold to us as a male), my son noticed, "he's really growing fast now" and I looked and saw nipples....looked up info on the internet about hamsters having babies, set her up in a more-appropriate cage that evening, had babies born the very next morning. Soooo.....get things ready now. Right now. You never know.
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Post by winic1 on Oct 9, 2021 21:43:48 GMT
Can you find a Snugglesafe Pet Heating Pad in your country, or that you could order in? It's a hard plastic disk with a soft fuzzy cover. You heat it in the microwave, and it holds its heat for up to 12 hours. This would provide warmth for your goos when you are not home and can't run your heater. Here is a link to what I am talking about. This is amazon.com in the USA, but maybe you can find one that you can order? www.amazon.com/Snuggle-Safe-Pet-Microwave-Heating/dp/B00008AJH9If you can find one, you wouldn't put it right in/under their nest, to make sure they didn't get too warm, but right next to it, or halfway under another nest/house, so they could feel the warmth by being next to it, or go on or off of it when they chose.
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Post by deguconvert on Oct 9, 2021 23:20:17 GMT
I have been expecting to hear this! I'm glad she is doing very well. I second what Winic has said . . . you need to have every space they will have access to surrounded by cardboard so that they will not get out. Believe me . . . they are WAY better than Houdini at making escapes!! And even though they are tiny, they are mighty curious and absolutely refuse to acknowledge that they should not go where no degu has gone before. The pups will walk through a 1cm opening like it's a king sized door!
AND they can do that for 3-4 MONTHS!
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Post by savvy on Oct 10, 2021 10:41:13 GMT
To try to put size into context, take a look at the average size of a degu, then imagine how small newborn pups must be to fit in there.
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Post by teemu on Oct 10, 2021 14:37:19 GMT
The babies *can* also climb, no problem, but they're very fragile and also have no agility at all, so it's very important that they have nothing to climb on before they start to get a bit more sure about it. No branches, no ladders, nothing they could climb other than a regular ramp (and even that should have something soft underneath it, like a lot of bedding or litter) and the like. I've seen a couple of really sad stories about a baby degu that climbed somewhere, fell down and broke their back or otherwise damaged themselves permanently...
Basically, treat them as miniature versions of normal degus that have *all* the capabilities of them, but are even more prone to stupid antics and have even less common sense, and that are very, very fragile and hard to find if they go missing. When they're just born, for the first weeks and months, you really can't be too careful with them!
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Post by winic1 on Oct 10, 2021 15:56:20 GMT
Think of baby degus as miniature, fully-functional adult degus, but without a functioning, thinking, brain. Kind of like toddlers on espresso. They can get into everything, but don't know any of the dangers.
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Post by bouncy on Oct 10, 2021 17:36:04 GMT
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Post by teemu on Oct 10, 2021 17:37:57 GMT
Think of baby degus as miniature, fully-functional adult degus, but without a functioning, thinking, brain. Kind of like toddlers on espresso. They can get into everything, but don't know any of the dangers.
That's a good way to put it, yes. It's REALLY not an exaggeration to say that they're born fully functional. I've seen a video where a baby degu literally RUNS out of her mother. Like, the mother's heaving, you see a head and then the baby takes off, in a straight run! Sure, they're wobbly and groggy to begin with, but they're amazingly ready to just *go*, even by rodent standards. After a couple of hours of getting their bearings and drying off, they'll be rearing to see what's out there.
And sure, the mom will do her best to keep watch over the babies, but she can't be anywhere at once, and she doesn't actually realize many of the dangers either.
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lindie
Foraging Degu
Posts: 107
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Post by lindie on Oct 11, 2021 17:38:41 GMT
Hi, thanks for all the responses. Here is a quick update. I have moved the wheel to the lower part of the cage. The lower part of the cage is still accessible for the degus, because Remi and Ethel will be very mad when they can't run in their wheel anymore, so i will do that when I think Remi is closer to delivery. The upper part is almost baby proof. I only need to remove the branches and properly attach the cardboard to the back wall. I have used all the cardboard I could find to cover the walls. I put the cardboard on the outside of the cage because I know they will chew the cardboard when they are bored. And when they don't have access to their beloved wheel I can guaranty you they will be bored. I still want to replace the bedding outside their nest which I am planning to do tomorrow. They used about a roll of toilet paper in their nest. I give them a bit more every night so they can decorate it even more XD. Remi is still very active (she is running on her wheel at the moment). Her belly is big. But not that big that a stranger will notice it without me telling that one degu is probably pregnant. So I think that I have at least an other week before the trouble maker arrive. I uploaded a picture of the baby proofed cage, and pictures of Remi's which I took today to flickr: flic.kr/s/aHsmWU1fzU
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