lindie
Foraging Degu
Posts: 107
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Post by lindie on Sept 22, 2021 16:05:32 GMT
Mid July I got my 2 female degus as well as a boy. I got them from their previous owner who did not take good care of them. I'm not sure how old they are, but guess around 6-7 month (they weight 194 & 210 gram mid July). They had been living together for a while because the previous owner wanted to breed them. I tried to rehome the boy myself but couldn't find a home for him. So on July 31 I took the boy to a rescue who was happy to take him (I still have contact with this rescue). I separated them a few days before. I was hoping they wouldn't be pregnant (because I don't want to lose the mother and also worry about finding good homes for the little ones), but at the moment I think one of my degus is pregnant. Around a week ago I noticed her belly was a bit bigger and her weight has increased(from 194 grams on 18-7 to 241 grams on 21-9, while her friend was 210 grams on 18-7 and 204 grams on 21-9 (I weight them regularly and have it written down).
I want to be prepared for babies just in case, but I don't know if my cage is baby proof. The cage I have is a double critter nation (which I posted about also on this forum (help me improve my cage)) It has multiple levels, and a lot of opportunities to clime. since I have no experience with babies I don't know how mobile they are. I am afraid a baby might try to clime and fall down or even get stuck because they don't know how to get back up or down. They also build there nest on the second level which means it they go exploring they could fall down.
So I was wondering if someone can tell me more about if she is indeed pregnant, and how to baby proof my cage, and when to do this? I also have a question about treats, but will ask this somewhere else on the forum (I'm just have so many questions:D )
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Post by savvy on Sept 22, 2021 16:29:33 GMT
OK, I'll do my best, but others have more experience with babies than me.
First of all, degus only show signs of pregnancy about a week before they give birth. Look for a single row of nipples down the right side of her stomach. These will be prominent when she is due to give birth. The babies are born fully active, but with zero common sense.
You will need to remove everything they can fall off, over or into. Wrap a length of cardboard around the perimeter of your cage so they can't walk through the bar spacing. Yes, they can and do do that. Like I said, zero common sense, lol. The cardboard doesn't need be high, just high enough to stop them walking through. You can use perspex if you prefer and it can ve removed as soon as the babies are big enough.
Both degus will look after the little ones so you don't have to worry about separating them. Mum will need extra food to help her look after the little ones.
You will find the babies adorable.
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Post by bouncy on Sept 22, 2021 20:25:44 GMT
You will need to put a finer mesh around the bars to prevent escapees. You can weave cardboard between the bars, but their chewing means it can only be a temporary measure. You will also need to remove the wheel (imagine pups flying out from the centrifugal force when mum gets in). Babies come out fully furred, eyes open, and raring to go! Imagine a space where a mouse could get into trouble, and you're thinking along the right lines. They'll learn by doing, so you need to avoid the chance of them doing anything fatal!
It's not as bad as it sounds - degus make excellent parents, and you'll find that both girls will help with rearing them. The only time you may have to intervene is if you see one of the pups away from an adult. They can get cold quickly, so just deliver them back to mum.
In terms of diet, mum will have low calcium levels from helping to form the pups, so some high calcium seeds would help.
Degus have a three month gestation period. Apart from a growing belly, you'll only really know for sure if pups are coming a couple of weeks before the pups arrive. You'll then be able to feel nipples.
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lindie
Foraging Degu
Posts: 107
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Post by lindie on Sept 23, 2021 9:03:25 GMT
Okay, should I already baby-proof the cage, Or can I wait a little longer? Since she might not even be pregnant or be early on in her pregnancy because of her lower weight.
I don't want to make the cage baby-proof if it is not necessary. Because of the layout of my cage I would need to block the staircase to the lower part of the cage and remove the wheel as well as the stairs and all climbing possibilities to the level(s) (which they absolutely love). This would leave my degus with very little room left, and I am almost sure my degus wouldn't agree and be very bored and sad.
would it be an idea to set the lower part of the cage up in a way so that I can make it baby-proof in seconds by only removing the stairs to the level and upper part of the cage, removing the level and shielding of the upper part of the cage. This would mean I can leave the upper part of the cage as it is and converting everything to the boring baby-proof environment at the last moment. To make the lower part baby-proof I thought about adding plexiglass to the sides (which I already wanted to do as litter guards) and removing all climbable things. Relocating their favorite water bottle and food bowl the the ground. changing the stairs to easy to remove stairs. And removing everything from the level so the level can be removed in seconds. The only problem I see is that they would need to relocate their nest, which I don't know how to do. Could I just relocate their nest by myself and shield off the upper part of the cage for a while so that they accept their new nest? and if so, how long do I need to shield the upper part of the cage off? And how high does the plexiglass need to be? (I know this is important since I have seen one of my baby guinea pigs walk the only bars when I took out their house (i did not cover the bars behind the house because the house was in front of it))
savvy and bouncy also mentioned feeding the mom extra. What are some good things to feed and how much?
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Post by savvy on Sept 23, 2021 9:46:01 GMT
Personally, I'd put the shields in place as you were planning on that anyway, I'm not sure of height, but I guesstimate at between 5 - 10cm.
Any babies would not be on solid food straight away, and having a water bottle is fine. Any water bowls will need to be removed as soon as you spot the newborns.
Mum will need high calcium seeds as bouncy suggested. I'm not sure what you're feeding already, it could be that only minor tweaks are needed.
Keep a lookout for protruding nipples on mum, when they get near to giving birth they resemble a degu thats swallowed a tennis ball. I would hesitate to move the nest myself as they have their own ideas on where they want it and they may try to move it back.
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lindie
Foraging Degu
Posts: 107
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Post by lindie on Sept 23, 2021 10:44:31 GMT
At the moment I am feeding them a mix of 3 commercial pellets - versele-laga crispy chinchilla and degu - versele-laga nature degu (I took out all the little bits and feed those as treats) - science selective degu.
I feed a mix because I was not happy with the calcium phosphor ratio of the nature, and the ingredients of the crispy were so vague to me to feed it alone. This is why I mixed these two to balance it out. And later I got the science selective and added it to the mix.
They also have a lot of hay, and I give them some fresh grass everyday as well as a spoon full of the different herbs I already had for my guinea pigs (dried raspberry leaves, dried strawberry leaves, dried dandelion leaves, dried plantain leaves, dried flowers and dried parsley stalks).
I also tend to give them a lot of little treats everyday (I have puffed rice, pea flakes, whole dried peas, dried zucchini, dried pumpkin, oats, other little grains, dried parsnip). some days I give them around one piece of dried vegetable or one or two pea flakes, and a couple of rice puffs or grains. Sometimes they get a pumpkin seed or fresh apple of pear leaf. But somedays they don't get any treat. And once a month a whole walnut between the two of them. I also have versele-laga snack fiber treats and bunny lust auf nature treats, but they don't get these often. I know that I need to feed less treats, but don't know how many they can actually have a day.
Is this an appropriate diet for a pregnant degu?
I would like to get the SAB degu seed mix and a herb mix to feed daily as well as some healthier treats. But I already spend so much money and have a lot of food.
Altough i would like to give them the best food i can get. I also need to the money in my savings account for vet visits. Since my parents don't pay the vet bills anymore for my rodents since i have so many (4 guinea pigs, and 2 degus).
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Post by savvy on Sept 23, 2021 13:41:08 GMT
It can work out cheaper to feed a forage mix instead of pellet food. SAB seed mix would definitely help a pregnant or nursing degu.
Can you remind me of where you live?
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lindie
Foraging Degu
Posts: 107
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Post by lindie on Sept 23, 2021 13:48:23 GMT
It can work out cheaper to feed a forage mix instead of pellet food. SAB seed mix would definitely help a pregnant or nursing degu. Can you remind me of where you live? I live in the Netherlands, i already contacted ratrations and minipetz if they ship to Netherlands. Ratrations already replied that they don't ship to the nethetlands at the moment. I already have a supply of pellet food which would last me a while (i bought 2 bags of the nature with discound, and got 2 unopened bags of the science selective from someone for free (her degu past away)). It was not really expensive.
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Post by savvy on Sept 23, 2021 13:56:18 GMT
Have you tried Hansemanns? They are based in the EU.
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Post by bouncy on Sept 23, 2021 15:48:07 GMT
Yes, agree Hansemann (hansemanns-team.de) is good. Also deguladen.de I've ordered from a number of EU sites when in Austria, so I'll refresh my memory and post any additional thoughts here. For higher calcium seeds, check out the table in our feeding section! Please be careful with the treats - many of those you mentioned contain natural sugars. Don't forget degus are diabetic. You can try offering some fresh herbs, dandelion leaves, and flowers from our safe list. You can even go gathering! If you dry what you find, you can even make your own degu feed, which is what I've done this year! You can't get better than free
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lindie
Foraging Degu
Posts: 107
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Post by lindie on Sept 23, 2021 17:00:17 GMT
Yes, agree Hansemann (hansemanns-team.de) is good. Also deguladen.de I've ordered from a number of EU sites when in Austria, so I'll refresh my memory and post any additional thoughts here. For higher calcium seeds, check out the table in our feeding section! Please be careful with the treats - many of those you mentioned contain natural sugars. Don't forget degus are diabetic. You can try offering some fresh herbs, dandelion leaves, and flowers from our safe list. You can even go gathering! If you dry what you find, you can even make your own degu feed, which is what I've done this year! You can't get better than free Thanks I just looked, and they both send to the Netherlands. Hansemanns had the SAB seed mix, and deguladen had some other seed mixes. Which would you recommend? and how many grams should I buy for 2 degus an possibly some babies? and which forage do you recommend. At the moment they get a mix of everything I have together. And how much to feed? a lot of forage with a thee spoon of the seed mix a day for 2 degus along with some pellets, fresh grass and lots of hay? And I have decided that I am going to be feeding less treats. I'm going to make sure I don't let the degus persuade me to feed them more. I know how important it is.
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Post by savvy on Sept 23, 2021 17:19:59 GMT
I'd go for the SAB forage and SAB seeds. A handful of forage and half a teaspoon of seeds per degu per day should be enough, but if they eat all the forage, its safe to give them more, they'll let you know when their tummies are full. I found it cheaper to buy in bulk, but I had to pay shipping to the UK. Try a kilo of forage and 500gms of seeds so you can see if they like it, you can always get bigger quantities later.
Feed hay and grass as normal.
I use Science Selective pellets as a treat as well as giving them 5 each day as part of their main diet.
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lindie
Foraging Degu
Posts: 107
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Post by lindie on Sept 23, 2021 17:26:51 GMT
I'd go for the SAB forage and SAB seeds. A handful of forage and half a teaspoon of seeds per degu per day should be enough, but if they eat all the forage, its safe to give them more, they'll let you know when their tummies are full. I found it cheaper to buy in bulk, but I had to pay shipping to the UK. Try a kilo of forage and 500gms of seeds so you can see if they like it, you can always get bigger quantities later. Feed hay and grass as normal. I use Science Selective pellets as a treat as well as giving them 5 each day as part of their main diet. okay thanks! I will order it tonight. edit: I can only select the self pickup option in the shopping basket, so I send a email if they ship to the Netherlands.... I am sending so many emails to webshop's asking them if they deliver to the Netherlands. They just don't sell degu stuff in the Netherlands, so unfair. Science selective is on of the pellets I feed them. My degus also love it. I have broken them up and give them as treats a few times a day, I am still in the process of taming them, that's why I have given them so many treats. I also hide a few around their cage for them to find during the night when I am asleep. I try not to feed so much of these otherwise they won't eat the other pellets in their bowl.
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Post by bouncy on Sept 23, 2021 18:05:57 GMT
Degus tend not to overeat, provided they're sure of supply (I never let their bowls empty).
You'll find that pups, once weaned, will eat A LOT. Spud and Sausage ate double that of my oldies in their first year, and Snoozy and Sneaky ate even more! They grow quickly, and need lots of energy for that.
Zooplus has bags of greens from JR Farms. It's an expensive way to feed forage, but they deliver quickly if you run out.
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lindie
Foraging Degu
Posts: 107
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Post by lindie on Sept 23, 2021 18:38:27 GMT
Help! I just took my degu Remi out of the cage to feel her belly and see if I could feel any nipples. And I saw that she had the tiniest bit of dried blood between her cone and anus directly behind her cone. Is this blood from her vagina? I have a vet appointment for one of my guinea pigs tomorrow, I can call and try to see if the vet can also look at Remi. But I don't even know if they treat degus since I have an appointment with a vet who has a lot of experience and extra training in guinea pigs.
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Post by savvy on Sept 23, 2021 18:44:26 GMT
Ok, try not to panic.
Has she been on heat recently? The fact that its dried blood is better than bleeding as it denotes that its not current. Degus can get cystitis so thats also a possibility, but I'm not a vet.
Check their nest to make sure she hasn't already given birth.
How is she behaving? You should be able to get an emergency vet appointment.
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lindie
Foraging Degu
Posts: 107
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Post by lindie on Sept 23, 2021 18:53:47 GMT
Ok, try not to panic. Has she been on heat recently? The fact that its dried blood is better than bleeding as it denotes that its not current. Degus can get cystitis so thats also a possibility, but I'm not a vet. Check their nest to make sure she hasn't already given birth. How is she behaving? You should be able to get an emergency vet appointment. I just checked her nest and all the places in their cage where she likes to sleep. I did not find any blood or other things. She is behaving normal. She is avoiding me, but that's because I have picked her up multiple times now and is not happy about is. could it be she is miscarying, or has some type of infection?
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Post by savvy on Sept 23, 2021 19:09:33 GMT
I'm not a vet, but there could be any number of possibilities, it could be a small injury, or something more serious. I'd certainly get her to a vet tomorrow.
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lindie
Foraging Degu
Posts: 107
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Post by lindie on Sept 23, 2021 19:12:38 GMT
okay, i will do that.
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lindie
Foraging Degu
Posts: 107
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Post by lindie on Sept 24, 2021 13:48:22 GMT
I just got back from the vet. This vet has treated degus in the past, so that was good. She felt her belly and didn't think she was pregnant because of how small/big her belly was for a degu who's got separated from a male on 31-7. She thinks the blood might come from a bladder infection and advised to collect some urine and bring it back for testing. They are closed in the weekends, so next week I am going to try to collect some urine and bring it back (she advised putting her in a clean tub, or clean empty aquarium for a few hours so that I can collect the urine after she pees with an serine). Because it was just the tiniest bit of dried blood so she wasn't worried.
I also have some good new about my guinea pig, the little bump he has is a clogged glad (I am very happy because it is not a tumor or something else bad). The less good news is that my guinea pigs have indeed had lice (she put a hair under the microscope, and it showed a dead lice) I already treated them before (which killed all the lice). She recommended to treat them again because the dead lice were close to the skin which would mean some eggs survived and and then the lice died quickly after hatching leaving the dead lice on their hairs. So I am going to treat al 4 of them again one a month for a few months to break this cycle as she recommended. I used the beaphar the anti parasite stuff (with ivermectin) from the pet shop before and because this worked she said to use this again.
Because my degu cage has been next to the guinea pig cage, and I use the same fleece for both, she recommended to treat the degus also for lice. It could be that they don't have lice but she said they are so closely related that it is possible. I will need to measure it securely though.
I am not sure I believe her that Remi is not pregnant, but time will tell. I did forget to ask if the anti parasite stuff (with ivermectin) is harmful for the babies incase she is pregnant. I am not worried anymore, and next week I find out if she has a bladder infection after I collected and they tested her urine.
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