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Post by sammyanthap on Aug 25, 2021 20:13:13 GMT
Hello, I was hoping for a little advice as a new goo owner. I have never joined any groups like this before so I’m a newbie with this too. I have two males chocolate and chip we have had the boys since June (as babies) with no problems only the normal mounting and boxing. three days ago this turned in to a furry deadlock! With lots of bites and blood drawn we managed to separate them and I have partitioned the cage, using a thick Perspex sheet so they can still see each other. The problem is we have a 4 tier cage that meets requirements but sectioned off in this way it’s not a long term solution. They were apart for 3 days and we re introduced them in a dry bath tub and instantly it resulted in serious fighting. We managed to part them quickly without injury this time. I have found a lot of conflicting information online. I know they need to establish dominance and I’m not sure how to do this safely without making the situation worse. My 10 year old LOVES them we have established a really good bond after months of patience and separately they are still happy to interact with us just not with each other. Very Grateful for any of your tips and advice 😊
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Post by savvy on Aug 25, 2021 20:24:45 GMT
Welcome to the forum, I'm sorry to hear about the problems you're having. Degus are world class grudge holders so you will need to let tempers cool before attempting a reintroduction. I'd also wait until all wounds are fully healed too. Our fighting guide may help you deguworld.proboards.com/thread/17618/introductions-fighting-quick-guide It is possible to get them back together but it may take time. As long as both have access to water, food and enough space they should be fine for the time being. You say they are babies, do you know how old they are? Also are you sure they are both the same sex? Mistakes with seeing degus happen frequently. As a new degu owner, if you have any questions please feel free to ask, there are no silly or stupid questions when it comes to degus.
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Post by deguconvert on Aug 25, 2021 22:19:33 GMT
Hello Sammyanthap, and welcome to the forum!
I too am sorry to hear that you are in the thick of things with your two loves. This is not uncommon with degus, especially as they enter into their teen and young adult stages. Usually this starts between the ages of 5-6 months, and may continue for several months . . . in some cases up to about 18 months of age. Usually it is not quite so long as a full year, but it can be. Please don't let this information discourage you. This is something that can be overcome, and we are here to help as much as possible. Just having somewhere that you can let off some steam and be understood is a big deal, and we are glad to offer that, as well as being a cheering section for you! We will advise and tweak plans as things move along, because one method really doesn't fit all at all times. Sometimes we have to get creative.
Have you read through the guide that Savvy gave you a link to?
May I ask about your cage? When you say it is four tiers, are those tiers complete levels? What are the dimensions of the cage (width, height, and depth)?
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Post by Xellie on Aug 25, 2021 23:33:02 GMT
Welcome! It really is distressing when they fight.
I'm going through this right now with my girls and I'm entirely blaming it on puberty.
I've found that keeping them apart until wounds heal is super important. They really do hold grudges.
Are you able to divide the cage with bars or mesh when the time comes? Perspex doesn't really allow them to interact.
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Post by sammyanthap on Aug 26, 2021 9:49:59 GMT
Thank you for the quick response. The boys came from a petting farm they were in a huge enclosure with around 30 young all together. It would be difficult to put an exact age on them one does look a little larger than the other and he is the main instigator for the fights. The cage is height 101cm width 79cm and depth 56cm the shelves inside are half the width (I’m hoping I was advised well at the farm) and this is ok for them. Also hoping they are the same sex from inspection I’m confident the farm were correct but I can’t be 100%. The Perspex is temporary something I only purchased to slot in the bottom of the cage because it has bars on the floor that I read were harsh on little feet. There is a small gap where they are constantly chattering teeth at each other. This all happened the day before a two night stay away (my hubby was home for work) but couldn’t be there 24/7 so I needed to make sure they couldn’t fight while we were gone. If the cage is ok in dimension to have them split for now I will get inventive with some mesh and we will need another wheel :-) I feel a lot better about this situation than I did yesterday thanks so much
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Post by sammyanthap on Aug 26, 2021 10:03:07 GMT
And yes thank you I did read the guide. We had two bowls for food and water only one wheel and one dust bath that they did share no problems (until now). lots of toys and double items so if the cage size is ok after reading up and the advice i think it sounds like a coming of age problem. Will it be ok to still use the same dust bath between them? Now that they are separate?
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Post by savvy on Aug 26, 2021 10:26:45 GMT
Definitely use the same dust bath, but don't clean it, don't even sieve it! If they both smell the same it will make reintroduction a lot easier. I know it sounds gross, but bathing in each others wee and poo is vital to integrate their scents.
I'm not sure about the size of your cage, certainly mesh floors are no good as they cause bumblefoot which is incredibly painful for them. Can you post a picture as I think you may have been advised to get a cage which is not suitable for degus.
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Post by bouncy on Aug 26, 2021 11:28:18 GMT
Four of mine recently had a falling out, so they're separated into two pairs again. It all stems from the biggest two not wanting the smallest of them being #1. They spent nearly a month apart, with the older pair restricted to one level, but they were happy enough. They've met several times since, and had already lived together for three years. Supervised, they'll play for hours (my raised finger is enough to stop the aggressors dead), but it's FBOD as soon as my back is turned. I've decided to rearrange the cage and make the split permanent.
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Post by sammyanthap on Aug 26, 2021 12:38:40 GMT
I have no idea how to add a picture on here using my iPhone, I ordered the cozy pet rodent cage RC01 from amazon, If you see the bottom has bars so we have a Perspex sheet that just slips in it fits exactly so they can’t chew the corners or anything like that. But What I had to do (temporarily) is place the Perspex sheet between balanced on the levels in the middle so one is on the top and one is on the bottom at the moment but they are meeting at the level where there’s a small gap and teeth chattering.
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Post by savvy on Aug 26, 2021 12:50:01 GMT
OK, I think I see what the problem is. The cage as it is is not really suitable, but don't panic, there are things you can do to improve it. First of all, the ledges don't really count as floor space, so if you can replace at least two of those with three quarter or full levels with just a hole for access, it will give them more running area and may stop them fighting over space. If you take a look at our cages section, you will see how to work out the CARA of your cage. Degus are territorial so will attempt to drive out other degus if they feel that the space isn't big enough for all of them. This is regardless of food supply and is all to do with area. deguworld.proboards.com/thread/9396/forums-cage-size-recommendationsDegus need floor space more than height as they are not really climbers.
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Post by sammyanthap on Aug 26, 2021 13:17:43 GMT
Ohhhh ok I understand, I need to get creative….. do you have any tips on fixing levels inside? Is wood suitable? My hubby is a carpenter but I’m thinking can they nibble through it as quickly as he can build it lol
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Post by sammyanthap on Aug 26, 2021 13:29:13 GMT
I didn’t realise these little guys were quite so complex. we weren’t really given much information about caring for them. We have only ever had hamsters and gerbils in the past so this is quite the learning curve and I was surprised to find they have such lovely personalities :-)
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Post by savvy on Aug 26, 2021 13:38:51 GMT
Wood is great, kiln dried pine is good and can be fixed with bolts and washers to the bars. Its a good idea to cover any edges with a metal strip to stop them chewing, and the floors can be covered with self adhesive vinyl floor tiles for easy cleaning. The tiles will prevent any wee from soaking into the wood and getting smelly and they're easy to keep clean. bouncy is really good at cage modifications and self builds so I'm sure she can advise on the best fixings etc. Have fun designing it, we can help with anything you're not sure about. Once its done and they realise they have enough space it should eliminate one of the reasons for their fallings out. Unfortunately there's not much you can do about adolescence fighting, they just need to work that out for themselves as they get through that phase.
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Post by bouncy on Aug 26, 2021 13:47:14 GMT
Savvy's right - we used to have an awful lot of people coming on here with fighting degus, all having mistakenly having bought the p@h cage!
I've added shelves before. Ideally, you want some with an edge to them, including the opening between levels. This will keep in substrate, and give them something to chew on. You can use wood, aluminium, etc. For the shelves themselves, you can use wood, but we recommend you seal it somehow. Wee can soak in and smell after time. I've used a sheet of perspex before.
To fix the shelves, you just need a bolt, two penny washers, and a nut for each corner. Put one washer on a bolt, but the end through the bars, add another washer, then the nut. The tray simply sits on them!
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Post by savvy on Aug 26, 2021 13:49:26 GMT
I didn’t realise these little guys were quite so complex. we weren’t really given much information about caring for them. We have only ever had hamsters and gerbils in the past so this is quite the learning curve and I was surprised to find they have such lovely personalities :-) They are quite unlike any other pet you will have encountered, but we love them to bits! They are loveable little weirdos who like to keep us guessing, lol. We've all been on that very steep learning curve so we do understand what you're going through and we'll help in any way we can.
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Post by bouncy on Aug 26, 2021 15:11:04 GMT
The biggest thing to bear in mind is their intelligence. NEVER underestimate a goo! They have the same brain structure as humans, and can problem solve. I mean, one of mine figured out levers and fulcrums! They're also conspiring for world domination, so watch closely. If you leave access to the internet open, they'll hold meetings, and it may expedite their plans.
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Post by sammyanthap on Aug 26, 2021 15:23:30 GMT
Hahaha ok no internet got it!! Thanks so much for everyone’s help I really appreciate it, I have a little more confidence knowing there’s help and advice out there. I have many many things to learn by the sound of it lol hopefully chocolate & chip are patient with us.
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Post by bouncy on Aug 26, 2021 15:49:32 GMT
You'll be fine, as long as you remember that they're in charge. Feel free to ask as much as you like - there are no stupid questions, and we love hearing about goo mischief!
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Post by deguconvert on Aug 26, 2021 17:33:59 GMT
I would recommend that you look through each of our different topic boards and read through each thread (Or as many as you can handle at a time) that has a sticky on it . . . which looks like a file folder with a red stick pin in it, at the left of each thread when you first open the board. These will give you access to what we consider important information for each owner to know. These are easier to go through and glean information from, than it is to type in something to the search. (At least so I think. ) Things such as nutrition and food choices, bedding, cage design, fighting and intros, hierarchy in a group, being able to correctly identify male and female, are all discussed in detail. If you have any question, please don't be shy! We've been there, we know and remember what it feels like to have a huge learning curve and be nervous that our questions are silly. As has already been said . . . there are no stupid questions.
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Post by sammyanthap on Sept 6, 2021 19:38:40 GMT
Hi I just wanted to give you an update on our cage we have added more shelving like you suggested. there’s now two full platforms well (including the bottom) and two three quarter shelves nothing fancy but lots more space than they had. I can tell already they are a lot happier. Unfortunately they are still holding a grudge so they are still separate, I feel like they miss each other but it ends badly so they need a little more time on that front. We only have one wheel in the bottom they do come out for a run around although the time they have out is a little shorter (now that they have to come out separately). will one of them be ok without a wheel? Just Until they make friends again fingers crossed
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