lindie
Foraging Degu
Posts: 107
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Post by lindie on Aug 24, 2021 13:55:41 GMT
I recently got my 2 degus Remi (white-brown agouti) and Ethel (white-blue). I rescued them a little over a month ago with a blue male which I have already rehomed. My cage is a double critter nation with an 12" tic tac wheel. I also have an aquarium digging area. the aquarium is filled with children's play sand, but I want to change this to Cocos humus. I also was thinking about adding springtails to the Cocos humus to make it bio active (If that is safe). The ledges in my cage are home made and are made from wooden hazelnut bridges. The wooden bridges are also hazelnut. They also have dried apple twigs, and lots of cardboard to chew. I would really like if I could get some tips and ideas on how to improve their cage. I am really passionate about animals and only want to give them the best. I already have some things planned: - natural rocks and stones. My brother is in Norway at the moment and found some beautiful rocks and stones. Which I want to put in their cage after I have cleaned and sterilized them. - more and different types of wood. was thinking about a willow bridge, sandblasted grape vine, mangrove wood, and some bigger branches from my garden (we have apple, cherry, pear, plum and beech trees) but these I have to dry first. - A hiding house which also can be used a as a nesting area. So please, if you have any ideas or suggestion tell me!
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lindie
Foraging Degu
Posts: 107
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Post by lindie on Aug 24, 2021 14:00:19 GMT
This is the lower part of the cage
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lindie
Foraging Degu
Posts: 107
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Post by lindie on Aug 24, 2021 14:01:46 GMT
This is the upper part of the cage
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Post by moletteuk on Aug 24, 2021 17:48:51 GMT
Hi Lindie, I think the cage looks really good already I think the main thing missiing is an obvious nest spot or two. Are they using the hammocks at the moment? In my experience they like a box with low headroom for a nest, at least when it's a bit cooler than now, because a low space is easier to keep warm. You could experiment with cardboard boxes to find a size and shape they like or you could see what you can find made out of wood. Alongside this, I would throw them in a load of kitchen roll or toilet paper for packing out a nest space. You could do this right away, it should be interesting to see where they take the paper, if anywhere. Natural rocks are good, if you put something flattish in a high traffic area it can help to keep their nails down. You can also use rocks as perches. I think my main tip would be to watch how they use the space and try to adapt it to suit them. If there are spaces they don't use much then change them, if they have favourite hang out places, provide hay nearby to encourage them to eat it. Watch for where they prefer to pee, you may be able to put tiles or trays down to help you spot clean those areas. Think about optimising any routes that they prefer. My lot used to love loose sticks that they could eat the leaves and bark off and then gnaw at the wood and move the sticks around to different stash sites. Digging boxes are tricky. I'm not sure anyone really figured out the best way to do it. Here is a thread about my own and another member's efforts deguworld.proboards.com/thread/15992 In essence, and in my opinion, degus aren't interested in digging for it's own sake, they are interested in making private nest spaces, and they also enjoy having a really good secret lair for stashing stuff. I also think there is an inherent ventilation and humdity issue with any kind of damp filling material, you need to be really careful you don't grown mould in a damp enclosed space. For that reason all my experiments were with dry materials.
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Post by bouncy on Aug 24, 2021 21:43:38 GMT
Hi Lindie, I created a burrow area for my lot when they were in a similar cage (liberta explorer). I did this by placing a tray in the bottom of the frame, velcro perspex panels on sides, and making an access hole down there. It became their sleep area of choice, favourite hangout, and treat stash. It also gave them a whole new level! Their current home also has burrow sections, mostly used by Snoozy and Sneaky. They like to enter via a tube, then dig their way up. I've only really used woodshavings for this, but I use jumbo horse shavings so they still have air in the event of a collapse.
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Post by deguconvert on Aug 24, 2021 21:44:43 GMT
There are only two things I would add to what Moletteuk has said above. I can see that your cage does not have a solid surface for the floors in the prefabricated areas, and you have done a really good job of covering most of it over! I am wondering what your larger shelves are made of though . . . are they metal or are they plastic trays? If they are plastic, there is the strong potential that your girls are going to start chewing on them at some point in the future, and that is not so good for them. You can keep them covered with cardboard, or you can replace them with wood surfaces that are cut to fit the area. The second thing is, if you do use any rocks in your cage, make sure they are supremely stable and will not roll. I used large stones in my cage with our degus, and they were much enjoyed, but if they are roundish, there is the possibility they will roll and injure a degu in the process. If the rocks are light enough that the degus can move them, you can be certain they will try to do so . . . and that is where it can get dangerous. So . . . they need to be a bit hefty so they can't move them about . . . or just really flat. Which can lead to strong and forceful degu swearing . . . but there is a certain amount of amusement to be found in that. LOL!
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Post by bouncy on Aug 24, 2021 21:48:13 GMT
I got some aquarium rocks, so they were already smooth and clean. I was able to root through a find some to create two Stonehenges.
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lindie
Foraging Degu
Posts: 107
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Post by lindie on Aug 30, 2021 12:34:54 GMT
Hi Lindie, I think the cage looks really good already I think the main thing missiing is an obvious nest spot or two. Are they using the hammocks at the moment? In my experience they like a box with low headroom for a nest, at least when it's a bit cooler than now, because a low space is easier to keep warm. You could experiment with cardboard boxes to find a size and shape they like or you could see what you can find made out of wood. Alongside this, I would throw them in a load of kitchen roll or toilet paper for packing out a nest space. You could do this right away, it should be interesting to see where they take the paper, if anywhere. Natural rocks are good, if you put something flattish in a high traffic area it can help to keep their nails down. You can also use rocks as perches. I think my main tip would be to watch how they use the space and try to adapt it to suit them. If there are spaces they don't use much then change them, if they have favourite hang out places, provide hay nearby to encourage them to eat it. Watch for where they prefer to pee, you may be able to put tiles or trays down to help you spot clean those areas. Think about optimising any routes that they prefer. My lot used to love loose sticks that they could eat the leaves and bark off and then gnaw at the wood and move the sticks around to different stash sites. Digging boxes are tricky. I'm not sure anyone really figured out the best way to do it. Here is a thread about my own and another member's efforts deguworld.proboards.com/thread/15992 In essence, and in my opinion, degus aren't interested in digging for it's own sake, they are interested in making private nest spaces, and they also enjoy having a really good secret lair for stashing stuff. I also think there is an inherent ventilation and humdity issue with any kind of damp filling material, you need to be really careful you don't grown mould in a damp enclosed space. For that reason all my experiments were with dry materials. Thanks, My degus are not using the hammock at the moment. I put it in the cage as a fall breaker, I don't want them falling 50cm from the small upper plateau. My degus have not build a nest yet. They had build a nest in their previous cage (which I got from their previous owner but was way to small). I have given them a cardboard box but they only chewed the sides. They have a few hiding places, fleece strips, cardboard strips and I have given them toilet paper in the past, but they don't build a nest. They just want to sleep on the fleece on the smaller upper levels. They like to sleep up high on the fleece. I was thinking about stuffing a small cardboard box with fleece strips and placing it on the upper platform, but first I need to find out how to secure it. Their favorite places are the wheel, and the fleece covered levels. The only thing I see them do is running in the wheel, sleeping, grooming, eating, drinking, chewing and taking sandbathes. But nest building, moving objects and stanching objects I don't see them doing. They have a lot of sticks, they move the sticks, but don't stash them. I have tried wood shavings and hay in their digging box, but they did not like it. I think they did not like the texture and wanted the soil texture. So I tried playsand, but they got bored of it after a few days. So yesterday I filled their digging box with the Cocos soil mixed with play sand (I hope it will be less humid this was. But please tell me if you still think it would be to humid) They immediately dug a big hole and threw the sand all over my cleaned floor . But did not really use it after that. I hoped they would dig tunnels, stop digging in their sand bath so all the sand stays in the bath instead all over the fleece, but no success yet. Speaking about sand baths, how often do you need the replace the sand? mine use it as a bathroom so I pick the poo's and wet sand out every day, but I only replace it every 2 weeks or so when most sand has been kicked out. Their sand bath stays in their cage 24/7. edit: I just saw my degu Ethel carry toilet paper and hay into the hole they dug in their digging box. I am happy that they decided to build their nest. But I imagined them using the digging box to satisfy their digging needs instead of building a nice cozy nest.... If they spend much time in their nest and the soil doesn't dry out nicely as I hoped I might need to change out the sand to shavings...
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lindie
Foraging Degu
Posts: 107
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Post by lindie on Aug 30, 2021 14:24:52 GMT
There are only two things I would add to what Moletteuk has said above. I can see that your cage does not have a solid surface for the floors in the prefabricated areas, and you have done a really good job of covering most of it over! I am wondering what your larger shelves are made of though . . . are they metal or are they plastic trays? If they are plastic, there is the strong potential that your girls are going to start chewing on them at some point in the future, and that is not so good for them. You can keep them covered with cardboard, or you can replace them with wood surfaces that are cut to fit the area. The second thing is, if you do use any rocks in your cage, make sure they are supremely stable and will not roll. I used large stones in my cage with our degus, and they were much enjoyed, but if they are roundish, there is the possibility they will roll and injure a degu in the process. If the rocks are light enough that the degus can move them, you can be certain they will try to do so . . . and that is where it can get dangerous. So . . . they need to be a bit hefty so they can't move them about . . . or just really flat. Which can lead to strong and forceful degu swearing . . . but there is a certain amount of amusement to be found in that. LOL! My cage has a solid surface, you can't see it because I covered the sides with cardboard to make it "deeper" so that the savings don't fall out. The trays on the levels are the original plastic trays which I covered with fleece. The upper part of the cage also has the original plastic tray. And I replaced the tray in the lower part of the cage with a OSB panel so that the aquarium/digging box would fit better. In the beginning they did chew the plastic, but since I put the wheel and a ton more wood in the cage they lost their interest in chewing the plastic (because they have better things to do ) Thanks for the rocks tip! I already have a small rock in the cage, but they showed no interest yet. I also read online somewhere that wild degus stack rocks, do you know if this is true?
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Post by moletteuk on Aug 30, 2021 16:45:16 GMT
Most of us just seive out the poos from the sand now and then and ignore the pee, and only change it now and then. You can even bake it in the oven to sterilise it and reuse it. I was trying to get across that most degus don't really enjoy digging for fun, mostly they just dig a nest or hidey space and then use that hidey space if it turns out to their liking. I would say keep an eye on the humidity in there, watch out for any mould and do regular sniff tests to see if it smells bad or mouldy. For their high up nests, they might be perfectly happy as it is, but it might be nice to try offering them a space with sides on it or a cover. Mine enjoyed a hanging basket as a nest for quite a while, I made a removable fleece liner for it. You can also get half circle ones that would attach to the side of the cage. Or, you can get fabric tent type structures and fabric hammocks that are like a tube that they can go inside. If you are interested to some them interact with 'stuff' a bit more, trying throwing some random stuff in there, any and all shapes of cardboard boxes and toilet rolls, wooden or willow balls, rope stuff, umm, I'll link a thread with some links for ideas in deguworld.proboards.com/thread/16665/interesting-toy-accessories-threadsBear in mind how food driven they are, you can hide food in things to get them to interact with things. Or you could take a look at our diet section for ideas on adding lots of forage to their diet for enrichment.
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Post by deguconvert on Aug 31, 2021 17:53:10 GMT
I would be very cautious about using sand for a digging pit . . . unless it is well mixed with moist clay that will harden and hold it's shape as it dries out. Sand tends to collapse as it dries, and whatever is underneath when it collapses is at risk of suffocation.
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Post by bouncy on Aug 31, 2021 18:33:34 GMT
I only have two that like to dig. I've put a piece of carpet tube into their burrow area. These two like to go down the tube, then tunnel their way through the shavings. I think, because they have underground burrows in the wild, we assume it's because they like living there. In reality, it's probably the only safe place from predators. Remove the predators, and I don't think they'd bother.
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lindie
Foraging Degu
Posts: 107
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Post by lindie on Sept 1, 2021 8:47:35 GMT
After reading all of your messages I am going to change out the soil from their digging box to shavings. Ans also because they don't use the nest they build in there digging box. They still sleep high up on the fleece levels. I was a bit stubborn and wanted to believe that they would want to dig, and hoped they would leave all there sand in the sand bath.
I have bought some wood to change out the smaller levels from mesh and cardboard to safe kiln dried pine levels. I also thought about building a wooden "box"/hiding house to attach in the top right corner of the cage for them to build a nest in because they like to sleep up high. How big should I make it? I thought about 20cm deep, 30cm long and 15 cm high with an roof which can come off for easy cleaning. Would this be a good size for a hiding house/ nest building area?
And also a quick question. I have a tic tac wheel attached to the side of the upper cage. But when they run in it (and especially when they run together) the wheel makes noise. I don't know if it is the side of the cage rattling or if the wheel makes noise. when I spin it with my hand it is completely silent. I wasn't bothered by it much in the beginning, also because I thought it was the side of the cage rattling or something else in the cage. But now I am wondering if there is something wrong with the wheel, or that it can damage the wheel. I live in the Netherlands and with shipping and import tax I paid around 90-100 euros, which is a lot of money for me. Do you know what it is? Or should I just contact tictac wheels?
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Post by moletteuk on Sept 1, 2021 11:10:34 GMT
Here's a link to the nest shelf cube box thing that I made and that evolved somewhat deguworld.proboards.com/thread/16376/cosy-cube-shelf I can't see any dimensions but I think it was only about 10 to 12 cm high and about 18cm across, length was open but I think 20 to 25cm would be fine. Do you have a playpen or safe play area? I think it would be worth trying the cocos soil in a deep open box at playtime, if you hide things in it it would encourage digging and activity, it could work well for playtime. Can you support the cage walls with your hands while they are running on the wheel to try to figure out if it's the wheel or the cage rattling?
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Post by bouncy on Sept 1, 2021 14:58:22 GMT
Do you use the metal strips that came with the wheel when you mount it on the cage?
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Post by bouncy on Sept 1, 2021 15:00:09 GMT
Ooh, also have a look on eBay or Etsy. There are people on there selling shelves and huts (some pre-made, some to order) that may work out cheaper.
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Post by deguconvert on Sept 1, 2021 17:08:24 GMT
I, too, was thinking it may be the wall of the cage that is rattling. It may not have enough rigidity to support the activity of the wheel when it is also bearing the weight or one of two degus. Reinforcing the side of the cage would help with that. I believe that may be what Bouncy is referring to when she asks it you are using the metal strips that came with the wheel.
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Post by winic1 on Sept 1, 2021 17:27:54 GMT
As for huts and sleeping places, I found that my degus would sleep inside a well-stuffed hut or nest when it was colder, and on top of it or out in an exposed place when it was warmer. So they changed preferred sleeping places with the seasons. And then also whenever they felt like it, suddenly tearing apart one place and re-stuffing it in another.
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Post by winic1 on Sept 1, 2021 17:36:26 GMT
For the noisy wheel: Having something as big and heavy as a wheel, with degu(s) inside, puts a lot of strain on the few cage bars that it attaches to. Sometimes the bars will even break after a while. You want to get two long pieces of metal, strips with holes through, and screw it on through many of the holes, to spread the weight and pull of the wheel across the whole side of the cage, not just a few bars. One strip inside, one strip outside, many screws/nuts to clamp it onto the cage side. Or even get 4 pieces of metal, and create a big X out of them clamping the wheel to the cage. I cannot figure out how to get a specific link to the right part of this post, so I will just have to tell you that it is about halfway through the first page of this post. You will see a blue mesh wheel mounted to the cage bars by two very long pieces of metal. There are several views of this. (Ignore the wheel itself, not a good wheel, was the best available in the USA at the time.) deguworld.proboards.com/thread/15977/paradise-critter-nationWith a strong, widespread attachment to the cage, your wheel should run more quietly. Unless it is that entire side of the cage that is rattling.
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Post by bouncy on Sept 2, 2021 6:24:43 GMT
The tictac wheels come with the X for fixing. When the bars rattle excessively, it sometimes helps to mount the wheel with the X onto a wood board, then bolt the board onto the cage bars.
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