Once again, a lump...

[teemu]

So it seems that Pulla's troubles might just not be ending at all, or at least they might not be ending yet. I can just barely feel some sort of weird lumpy thing on his left side, under the edge of his ribcage, or directly attached to it. It's hard to say because it's small and right up against his ribs so it's hard to get a good feel for it. Since the floating ribs (the ribs at the bottom end of the ribcage that aren't attached to the sternum) feel a bit lumpy anyway (and you really can't apply any pressure to them), it's really difficult to identify what we're dealing with here...

I don't really know what to think about it. It feels really minor right now, and he's totally normal, so it's obviously not bothering him. Yet, at least. I'm thinking it might even just be scar tissue from the earlier operation (it's not the exact same location, but I guess it's possible), or that it's just the ribs and I just can't get a good feel for them (since I understandably can't exactly start being rough with his thinnest rib bones).

There also seems to be a bit of lumpy feeling on his other side, but it's a bit different, feels even more like scar tissue (similar to the small bumpiness under the surgery area). I understand that they did examine his whole abdominal cavity back when he was operated, so possibly it's just something caused by that?

Taking him to the vet would answer all these questions of course, but I really don't want to stress him out over a pointless trip right now (he REALLY doesn't like going to the vet any more, since we've made something closer to 10 trips this year), especially since it feels like we're at a pretty critical juncture with introducing him and the girls to the each other. Since he's feeling totally normal and this is all kind of vague at this point, I wonder if it would be okay to wait a bit and see if the lumpiness becomes more pronounced or it starts to actually bother him? At the moment he's not expressing any pain, he's eating normally and he's moving around very actively. So it certainly looks like he's fine for now.

[bouncy]

I know you've not had the best of experiences with lumps and tumours, but I would get him to the vet asap. I would at least get a needle biopsy done. It means you can know whether it's benign, malignant, or aggressive. The smaller it is, the better the chance of being able to fully remove it. If nothing can be done, you'll at least be able to get him pain meds, keep an eye on him, and spoil him rotten!

Spidey has an inoperable, aggressive tumour, which returned after one excitement, and I'm just treasuring every day I have with him.

[deguconvert]

I hear your concern and that you are wondering if you should act promptly or wait on it. I'm inclined to say, wait and see if you detect changes to it. If you do detect changes that you can define, then take him in and see what they say. For now . . . don't worry, just monitor it . . . and keep up with the happy things that are happening.

[teemu]

Well it's weird, now that I'm looking at it again, I can't detect anything strange at all and feel no lump of any kind. He let me feel it a bit more now (he's not generally pleased about people poking his belly), and there's no weird lump at all there when I feel his belly and rib area. I think it might have been either the way his floating ribs kind of splay out so they feel more bulgy, or the fact that he's put on a bit of weight so there's a bit of a belly below the ribs now.

It might honestly be that I totally overreacted to feeling a bit of belly below the ribs, or the ribs themselves in a position where they protrude more. I spent a good 15 minutes just trying to find out what I had felt earlier but... nothing now. I'll of course check again later, maybe the lump is just mobile and will surface again later, but I'll need confirmation of it existing before I actually decide what to do about it.

[teemu]

Well, after thoroughly checking him for the last day (he really doesn't like it when someone tries to hold him and prod his sides, but we manage), I really don't know if there's anything there. I can kinda maybe feel a shape there, but it seems to be roughly identical on both sides, so I think it's just his abdomen pushing out in a certain way when he's in certain positions. I'll keep watching his health carefully of course and monitoring his belly, and if I feel at all that there's some development there or it becomes more pronounced, I'll get him checked by the vet right away. But for now I'm going to be a bit more patient, since after all the incidents up until now I'm really just kind of paranoid. It's certainly nothing like the earlier tumors/cysts/abscesses that occurred in both of them, and most likely it's me just stressing out over mundane things after all the bad experiences this year.

That being said, I'm fairly certain that I'll have to take him to the vet in near future anyway, since I think his teeth are slightly bothering him (he's picking at his cheek sometimes, despite eating well and all that, so likely they've developed some wear due to the way he often gnaws on his cage bars), so I can likely ask them to examine his belly during the same visit since they have to put him under anesthesia anyway. I don't think I'm neglecting anything if I leave something this vague up until june, given that he seems totally normal and healthy and I'm now honestly doubtful it actually is anything.

[teemu]

I'm finally convinced there's a lump there, and I finally figured out how it keeps disappearing. It seems to be somewhat mobile and it's actually hiding under the edge of the ribcage a lot of the time, but sometimes it seems to come out for a bit. I think it's grown somewhat, too. I should have acted sooner, but at the same time, it was really hard to see or feel before. Now I managed to get a good feel for it, and it does seem to be hiding partially under his ribs.

A lump that's actually under/inside the ribcage is likely a much bigger problem than a lump outside of it or on the belly. I can't help but feel that there really must be some connection between all these issues. He was totally fine before the bad neutering earlier this year, and his brother literally died due to similar issues. So it really isn't good, any of it. I'll try to get him a vet appointment as soon as possible.

Feeling bad for him. He's been through so much already and I was hoping he wouldn't need to go through any more of it. And now that I've realized what it is I really don't feel too optimistic about his chances. But it's one thing at a time, first I need to get him to the vet and then see how things will go from there. It seems like he's begun to feel it a bit, I've seen him looking a bit quiet over the past few days, likely from this. Looking at him from above, it's pretty obvious that his sides are not symmetrical. His left side's bulging out due to the mass.

Really not sure how to handle this right now. I'm really short on money at the moment, but I'll have to figure something out. I can't leave him like that, no matter what.

[savvy]

The fact that it moves could be a good sign, so don't get too despondent yet.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you both.

[teemu]

Thank you. It's true that being mobile means that it likely isn't connected tightly to anything. Maybe they can manipulate it out of the ribcage and just cut it off.

I'm also just really confused as to what is causing this. The last one was a cyst/abscess mass, not a tumor or anything like that. If this one is too, then something is causing them to appear. But I really don't know how that would work. It feels intuitively obvious that this all started due to their really bad reaction to the neutering (Munkki had also developed a lump on his side, and then a worse one in his belly and had to be put down), but that sounds absurd at the same time. If the infections had left lingering infection or something like that, the location should be around the same area as the neutering, or if it spread around there should be way more signs of general health problems. This is just... lumps appearing way after the operation. The last one was two months ago, and now there's another in the same general area.

If it's a cyst or an abscess, then there must be a relation. If it's actually a tumor of some sort, then it's not related at least (or not directly at least), but still not very good.

I'll have to talk to the vet about what is going on. But first they need to actually figure out what this thing is.

[teemu]

One thing that comes to mind is that maybe his weird posture causes issues? One of the vet's theories about how the last mass was potentially formed was that his abdominal wall had somehow "flipped" part of itself and it had become constricted. Maybe it's possible that since he's hunched over like he is due to his weird posture, it's easier for something like that to happen? The general area corresponds at least, since he bends right below the ribcage.

But then even that sounds farfetched. He's been totally fine for the first three years of his life, and suddenly all this happens? That's a really big coincidence...

(And it might actually be the other way around: maybe there's always been something wrong with his abdomen like this, and it's causing him to be hunched over and creating issues like this? He can lay totally flat, I've seen it happen, it's not like his spine literally does not straighten. So something is causing him to adopt the hunched posture. It might be this, or it might be that his rear feet move badly and he has to. Hard to say.)

[hpdegus]

Thinking of you! I know this has been stressful for you and Pulla.

One thing that came to mind, especially since the lump appears to be mobile or transient, is that this could possibly be a fatty tissue lump? I think we've had that happy to degus on the forum and I know it happens to other animals.

[deguconvert]

It is really difficult to resist the temptation to form ideas and hypothesis about what it may be. It is something we all do, with our own health and the health of all we love. Try not to do this, Teemu. You will be creating even greater anxiety over things that are unknown and as of yet cannot be dealt with.

Make the appointment at the vets, share what you have been seeing, actively interact with the vet, and go from there. We will all be thinking of you and Pulla! Sending you hugs!

[teemu]

Hpdegus, it could be, certainly. That would be an optimal scenario, of course.

It's true, Deguconvert. Ultimately it could be anything, and trying to sus it out by myself will do literally no good at all. Something as complex as a body can have so many things go wrong with it, and none of those will be fixed by tying yourself into knots over it. We will go one step at a time and see what the vet says. I won't even bother Pulla by constantly trying to inspect the lump any more. It's there, and the vet can actually inspect it and do something about it.

Thank you for the hugs

[teemu]

I arranged an appointment for him for next monday. I was really afraid things would get complicated since I'm really short on money right now, but my family graciously borrowed me what I need for the expenses. So everything's in order for now and he can be looked at on monday! They said that they'll likely have to put him to sleep to examine him, and it's entirely possible they'll operate right away if it looks like something that needs to be done (this is how it happened last time, after they called me and confimed the go-ahead).

Pulla's doing fine for the most part. He's running around in his cage right now all energetic (time to have an outing in the kitchen pretty soon, he knows it) and is foraging for the best pieces of hay in his pile. I have seen moments when he's obviously feeling poorly, though, and just huddles in place and puffs up suddenly. Similar to how it was with the last lump. They pass quickly, fortunately, but it is no doubt bothering him to some degree.

Man, he's such a trooper, putting up with all this. This may be his third operation this year and I'm not even sure how many times he's been to the vet by now, with all the check-ups and what have you. I'm mostly concerned that if he has to be operated on, I can't put him into Munkki's old cage for recovery since it's now the girls' cage. That cage was a lot better since he couldn't climb the bars even if he wanted to, but there is a risk he will try to do that in his own cage (and I assume it will be a big no-no since he's likely going to be under the same kind of conditions for this operation as well). It's concerning and I will have to think of possible was to prevent it. But at least he will get looked at and they will do what they can for him.

[deguconvert]

Maybe you can post a photo and we can brain storm with you about how to keep it safe if he should require surgery?

[teemu]

Ah, I figured it out already, actually. I can actually cordon off the top floor and put him there. It'll work just fine since the roof is pretty low and there's literally nowhere to climb to, or climb onto up there (after I remove the furnishings at least). I'll just have to move his food and water and all that up there and it'll work just fine. So even that is now solved

[deguconvert]

Sounds perfect!! Excellent!

[teemu]

Pulla's health has been very steady and he's been very energetic and his normal, temperamental self. Lately he's been really annoyed at our kitched cupboard for some reason and has spend the majority of his outing time trying to do... something about it. He acts like it's in his way, but he can both climb onto it and crawl under it, but neither of these makes him happy. So he paws at it furiously and tries to gnaw it as if trying to find some third, inconceivable option (warp into the cupboard? Go through it?). I think it's because the girls have climbed on it and he can't understand where their smell is coming from.

So essentially, whatever the whole lump thing is, it's certainly not showing up in his behavior for now. He's as he's always been. Maybe that's a good sign. Hard to say, Munkki was all energetic and normal until he had to be euthanised. I'm trying not to make any guesses about it for now. The vet visit tomorrow will reveal anything worth revealing.

I've also been unable to actually feel the lump again. It's really weird, since it felt pretty big last time, and I don't think there is physically enough space inside his ribcage for a lump that big to hide in. The absolutely best scenario would of course be that I'm mistaken and there's nothing there, after all, like maybe it's just his belly after he's eaten enough to bulge out a bit or whatever. I'd happily pay the price of examination to hear that diagnosis (if it was indeed true). But I'm trying to harbor neither hopes or fears right now. Just take it as it will come and deal with whatever that is.

[moletteuk]

Is Pulla at the vets today? Any news?

When you mentioned about his posture, I wonder about a hernia of his abdominal wall, that they would have needed to cut to do the castration. Although the location doesn't seem logical, I wonder if this could also make sense of the lump that comes and goes if something is herniating and then retracting back to where it should be?

[deguconvert]

I was wondering similarly about a hernia. Do degus have a muscular wall between the abdomen and thoracic cavity like humans do?

[teemu]

It was the best case scenario! It turns out that this weird mysterious lump... was Pulla's stomach. Apparently it can just be felt pretty clearly from his belly and side if he's eaten a lot and it's full. It might have something to do with his weird posture, possibly that makes it easier to feel, but that was literally the only thing they could find through feeling him out and giving him an ultrasound. There's no lump, nothing abnormal, his abdominal wall seems to have healed well and everything is as normal as could be.

So I've been worried and stressed and bracing myself for the possibility that it'd be bad... only to hear that it was, in fact, him just pigging out on his pellets and what have you sometimes and having a protruding gut. That's so silly, but I'll take it over something actually problematic any day!

To make it even more silly, I'm posting about it quite late because right after I got home with him, I had to go to the ER myself due to increasingly bad chest pains and pressure (I've been having them for a week now, and they suddenly got a lot worse). So I spent 6 hours waiting for them to slowly run some tests and work out what's wrong with me... and it turns out there's literally nothing of actual consequence wrong with me either. The best they could come up with (and they ran a lot of actual tests) was something like a stiff back, asthma, a pulled pectoral muscle or anything that had nothing to do with my heart, lungs, arteries or anything else actually serious. They even said my blood tests were "exemplary" and all that.

So we both visited a doctor today, sure that it would be something bad... and came out with a clean bill of health. In any case, it's a lot better than the alternative!