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Post by teemu on Apr 14, 2021 15:14:20 GMT
Hey all, I would like some experienced opinions on a topic that doesn't seem to come up as often when I read guides about introducing degus: how do males and females generally react to each other?
Pulla (my 3-years-old male) was neutered about 2.5 months ago, and I'm finally going to get new degus next week! Three young girls, one will be 9 weeks and two will be 8 weeks when they get here. I'm hoping they will be easy to introduce to Pulla, but I will of course be going through all the necessary steps and observing how it goes. But I'm wondering what I should expect in general, since I haven't seen many comments on an introduction like this.
Does someone have experience with neutered males and female pups being introduced? I would assume that it's going to be a much easier pairing than many others, but that can of course vary. I'm pretty hopeful though, especially since Pulla seems to be really pining for company, and when I tried to reintroduce him to his brother earlier on, he was always very willing to start socializing (unlike his brother).
(On that note, I'd assume 10 weeks would be enough for any residual sperm to die off after the neutering, but I haven't seen any concrete information on this either. Experiences?)
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Post by deguconvert on Apr 14, 2021 17:49:50 GMT
There should be no residual sperm to worry about by this time.
I assume you have a cage that you can keep the girls in? I would have the cages near each other but with at least 5 - 10 cm between so that they can see, smell, talk with each other, but tails and such can't be grabbed. I think you should keep them in that place for a couple of weeks . . . in part because it might be good for the girls to have a little more growth before you do any face to face introductions. My reason for suggesting this is because, even though Pulla is now sterile, he is by no means incapable of doing the act. He could wear them out. . . depending on how inspired he is. When they are so little, well . . . more growth might be a good thing.
Females and males are typically easier to introduce, but if they take a disliking to each other, they can fight just as viciously as two females or two males. I had at one point, two males living with two females (long story, females have been vet certified as male, and by the time we were aware of the truth, the girls were already pregnant so I left the boys for another couple of weeks while I built a second cage for the boys) and one of the boys took a great dislike to one of the girls. Had I not had a second cage nearly ready, and I had to rush it, I am certain he would have killed her had I left him and his brother in there much longer. This is NOT the usual . . . so I don't expect that you will experience anything like that. Just don't rush things along.
You are really good at reading your degus. Get to know the little girls well. Spend the two weeks they are side by side learning what they are like, watching their interactions and behaviors when they are at the cage walls that are near each other. Build a relationship and trust bond with them. The better you know them, the better you will be able to read their reactions.
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Post by teemu on Apr 14, 2021 18:52:04 GMT
Yeah, the girls will get Munkki's old big bird cage (One of those big, multi-level things), and I've already made preparations so that there will be viewing platforms in both cages so they can get a good look at each other (but also plenty of space otherwise, of course!) and so on. I expect that at least the first week will mostly just be the girls getting used to their new home, but I'll keep an eye on how Pulla reacts to new degus in the area, and how the girls will start reacting after they've gotten more settled into their home. It'll be intresting to see how Pulla acts, since he's only ever really seen his brother. I hope everything goes well, of course. Pulla can be pretty feisty, but I think the neutering has already made him mellow out a bit, so hopefully that will help things along. I'll have to think about where would be a good location for introductions (if and when we get that far), since the usual location (our kitchen) is very strongly Pulla territory already and I've heard that the introductions should be carried out in a neutral area. But there's plenty of time to think about that. For now I'm just very excited to get new life in the house!
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Post by deguconvert on Apr 15, 2021 2:07:30 GMT
Make sure you are using the bathing sand that Pulla has currently been using. Don't put in new sand, but use what is there. Pee, poops, and all. The smellier the more they will smell like each other. That will help them to move along in the process of identifying as a group instead of two separate groups. It's not magic, but it is important.
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Post by bouncy on Apr 15, 2021 9:19:57 GMT
Ditto DC.
There's also a CHANCE that he may adopt the pups straight away, especially if he's been lonely. Try letting him meet them in a neutral area, but be ready to jump on Pulla. It's worked for me twice (males are great dads), but there's no guarantee as I found with Spidey.
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Post by teemu on Apr 15, 2021 11:44:51 GMT
Do you think a neutral cage could work as an intro area? I don't have many suitable floor spaces, but I have many old rat cages that aren't in use right now. I could put some bedding in one and make sure it's a neutral area. From what I hear, people have often done intros in bathtubs and similar, and a rat cage isn't that much smaller.
I'll be sure to watch Pulla very carefully, of course. I got some experience with that when he and Munkki had their worst fights when I tried to reintroduce them. Luckily, he's rather clumsy, so if something goes wrong the girls will likely be able to escape him.
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Post by deguconvert on Apr 15, 2021 15:12:53 GMT
That maybe perfect . . . but the width of the openings between bars could be an issue. If the opening are larger than 1cm then the pups may be able to just walk right through. They are escape artists with a passion for exploration, as you may already know. Teemu . . . do you have a playpen area, large enough for you to sit inside and interact with them?
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Post by bouncy on Apr 15, 2021 15:13:06 GMT
As long as you can get your hands on them quickly if needed. Alternatively, do you have a bath?
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Post by teemu on Apr 15, 2021 16:20:51 GMT
Yeah, I thought about the fact that the pups will likely be able to get out of the cage. That wouldn't necessarily be a disaster in itself, but it would make introductions pretty hard...
I don't have a bath, sadly, and my bathroom is really cold and drafty so that's a bad place to do anything. But maybe I could build a playpen-type thing in my bedroom for the occasion. The room's too full of stuff and hiding places to work as a whole, but fencing off a piece of it might work.
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Post by deguconvert on Apr 16, 2021 15:12:38 GMT
You are probably a lot better at tracking down and catching degus than I ever was. In fact . . . I had to rely on one of my dogs to help me find them! Pups are even harder . . . so tiny and super fast. Personally, I would want to have something that they absolutely couldn't find a way out of, or over the top.
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Post by hpdegus on Apr 17, 2021 0:13:19 GMT
Since you don't have a bathtub, could you instead try finding one of those huge plastic bins with high sides? They're pretty common here for storage and could be a neutral zone for intros. Also very easy to clean or add scents to!
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Post by bouncy on Apr 17, 2021 9:54:22 GMT
Since you don't have a bathtub, could you instead try finding one of those huge plastic bins with high sides? They're pretty common here for storage and could be a neutral zone for intros. Also very easy to clean or add scents to! Like these. Small, but it's only to see if he wants to be uncle! www.diy.com/departments/black-plastic-42l-tub/1744329_BQ.prdOr a storage box!
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Post by teemu on Apr 17, 2021 12:09:31 GMT
Well, if something that small would be ok for a little bit, then I have a plastic baby cage I used with rat pups. It's bigger than that at least, and it's solid plastic so there'd be no escape risk. That would probably work.
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Post by bouncy on Apr 17, 2021 12:20:27 GMT
It's purely to see if Pulla wants to adopt. If he doesn't, grab him quick!
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Post by savvy on Apr 17, 2021 13:12:26 GMT
The one thing you will find in male and female groups is that when the female is on heat, she really will pester the heck out of the male. Dixie goes and hides and he's not even in the same cage! Females on heat can also get a bit aggressive due to their hormones so you may need space for the occasional time out.
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Post by teemu on Apr 18, 2021 15:59:33 GMT
Yeah, I'll be keeping the cage available in case there will be issues later - that is, assuming we get that far first. I guess we'll see the initial reactions quite soon, it's roughly 16 hours to when I will go get the pups. Very excited! I went to visit the pet store on friday and they had all grown very bold and curious! They wanted to groom my fingers and climb onto my hands, so I'm hoping they won't take too long to get over the shock of moving again.
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cookiedegus
Burrowing Degu
Fly high my sweet girl Maja [url=https://postimg.org/image/dwub0fayl/][img]https://s6.postimg.cc/3zja7d3cx/heart.gif[/img][/url] you won't be forgotten.
Posts: 183
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Post by cookiedegus on Apr 18, 2021 17:29:54 GMT
My vet said that you should still keep males separate from females for 2weeks.
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Post by deguconvert on Apr 18, 2021 21:59:30 GMT
Thank you, Cookiedegus. The male in this home is neutered and has been for well over six weeks already. There is no longer any chance of pregnancy.
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Post by teemu on Apr 18, 2021 22:26:10 GMT
Well, unless things seem to be going amazingly well, it will realistically be a couple of weeks anyway before I'll even have to start worrying about any further cage arrangements or about putting them together But yes, Pulla has been neutered now for over 10 weeks, so there's not going to be any pup accidents happening. From what I hear, neutered male degus can be somewhat intrested in females and can sometimes, erm, "do the deed", but that will likely go away too as his testoterone levels go down. It'll actually be intresting to see how his behavior will be affected as a whole over time. I think it might be showing a bit already. In the past, he was very, very quick to nip you if you attempted to hold him (grab him, for example to check him) in any way instead of letting him come to you and choose how to sit on your hands, but now he seems to be more tolerant of that and generally he seems to be less feisty. Of course, there's many other reasons that could also be causing it (loss of brother, operations etc), but it will probably become clearer as time goes on. Intresting to see in any case, since I've heard kind of conflicting information about how degus react to neutering. Individuals probably react differently, since degus can be such big personalities.
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Post by deguconvert on Apr 19, 2021 4:57:41 GMT
Male degus don't seem to have much of an issue with "ED" after neutering. LOL! Lots of reports of lots of activity.
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