Good Introduction?

[mkish]

I’m pretty sure some of you remember my bad introductions with my two new babies, Honey and Peanut and my older girl’s Cinnamon and Coco. Last Time I asked for help was mid August and I was told to leave them be for a couple months and to try and introduce them after that. After I ordered some new toys and chews for my girls I decided to switch their cages for a day before I clean them and add the new toys. So I put my younger girls in the older girls cage half and vice versa. (So they can get used to each others scent) Just now I introduced the ones I thought had the closet personality’s, Honey and Coco. I’m still shaking from how scared I was that one would get hurt but what happened still seems too good to be true. They ignored eachother at first for about a minute than I directed Coco towards Honey and they sniffed and instantly started grooming eachother!! They were doing so good and kept grooming eachother for a couple more minutes before I ended it. So my questions from this are..
When should I try and introduce them again?
Could things take a turn for the worse even though they got along or is this a good sign?
Thanks in advance (:

[deguconvert]

Well . . . it sounds like things went well!! WHEW!

I would, first off, caution you against swapping degus between cages. Where they place their feet, they view as their territory. It may seem totally nonsensical to us, but in the minds of degus, there is a difference between smelling others on the substrate, and walking into that territory themselves. Letting them walk in each others space will mean that they need to challenge the others for trespassing, so you could preset their expectation to that of aggression instead of open minded curiosity. Swapping substrate between cages is what we prefer to recommend.

I would say . . . wait until tomorrow and then try again. Just know, that you could create a bond between Honey and Coco that excludes one or both of the others, so work on introducing the other two as well. Who are the dominants in your pairs . . . Honey and Cinnamon?

[mkish]

Okay, I had no idea about the cage thing but I will definitely start just switching toys and items now.
It’s hard to tell. Coco likes to be dominant during introductions but as soon as it’s in the cage she’s never the dominant one. When introducing Cinnamon and Coco, Coco would constantly try to be dominant over Cinnamon and I always thought Coco was dominant but in the cage Cinnamon is so bossy towards Coco and when she starts a fight Coco backs down easily.
Honey and Peanut are hard to tell too but I think Honey is more dominant and Peanut is just feisty lol
Is there any way I could get a better understanding of who’s the dominant one between the pairs?

[deguconvert]

Well . . . sometimes their behavior around the food dish, or with treats, can be a give away. The dominant degu will get the food first, or it they approach the dish when the other is eating, the other will leave, or the dominant will steal the food/treat from the other and the other will submit.

Do you notice anything like that?

Coco may also feel that dominance has been settled inside the cage, but outside the cage she still has a chance to win the day. Do you ever have Coco and Cinnamon outside the cage together . . . would you say they are more unsettled as to dominance? More mounting, chasing, squealing, boxing and kicking outside the cage?

[mkish]

Oh than definitely Cinnamon and Honey. Cinnamon is so aggressive over food. It confused me for awhile because it’s not like I was starving her but that makes so much sense now lol

I always bring them outside of the cage and let them roam around my room, and there’s no mounting or anything like that. Coco likes to run to my closet and maze through my clothes and Cinnamon is all over me trying to get me to pick her up. Honey and Peanut don’t really explore when I take them out unless I’m near but again, no mounting or anything outside of cage.

[bouncy]

Have any of your clothes started to disappear? Degus can be very possessive of potential nest material!

[mkish]

Could they actually drag around my clothes?! That would be too funny to watch!!
I introduced Honey and Cinnamon today and it didn’t go as good as Coco and Honey. There was so much mounting and squeaking!! Honey tried to nip at Cinnamon’s tail god knows how many times. But no serious fighting so I think it’s going good?
Any idea of what a good introduction schedule would be? Like Cinnamon and Peanut one day than the next Cinnamon and Honey... if that makes any sense?
And how frequently should I be introducing them? I’m scared if I do it a lot, it might stress them out!!

[bouncy]

There's a video on here somewhere of Spidey running off with my teatowel, and another of him trying to get the fleece blanket I was sat on.

If you are planning to have all four living together, I think it may be more beneficial to try introducing them as a group. By separate intros, you're not allowing them to establish their group structure. I can understand if it makes you feel nervous - do you have anyone who can help you jump in to separate fighting?

[mkish]

I’m definitely looking for that!!
That sounds terrifying haha!! But yeah I can get one of my parents to help. Should I do this right away or should I introduce Peanut to Cinnamon and Coco? Since Honey has already met the older two could it help for Peanut to also have a one on one so they all have an idea of eachother?

[winic1]

Not sure of the best way to plan who meets who, but want to make sure that you do know NOT to use bare hands if you need to break up a fight, right? Degu teeth are very sharp, and the bites are very deep. So have several tea towels or other thick cloth handy to drop over them and pick them up with, if needed. Or heavy gloves. Never stick unprotected hands into a degu fight.

[bouncy]

Good point! titchycatnipsandwich swears by a colander or sieve to drop over an offending goo.

[mkish]

Yeah I’ve learned how deep their bites can go from Coco when I first got her. I use heavy gloves usually but I’ve also heard a spray bottle with water? I don’t know if that’ll be good or not. I can also get a towel too.
If they do start serious fighting how long of a break should I take before trying again?

[moletteuk]

Have you read our fighting and introduction guides?
deguworld.proboards.com/thread/17618/introductions-fighting-quick-guide
deguworld.proboards.com/thread/17619/deguconverts-detailed-introductions-fighting-guide

A spray of water can startle them enough to make it easier to separate them, or something like a colander or sieve or piece of cardboard can be handy for getting between them.

Really if you are expecting it to end in a fight, then it is too soon to be trying face to face introductions. I agree you need to be doing meets with all 4 at once.

How do you have their cages arranged? Are they side by side getting used to each other?

[bouncy]

I, personally, have found that a water spray makes them scatter, but a pair involved in FBOD just carry on. I know it works for others, though. I would suggest just watching the type of behaviour. Humping, squeaks, boxing, tail wagging and teeth chattering are all normal whilst they sort themselves out and has to happen, but if you anticipate anything more, put a stop to it. If it does move into FBOD, stop it immediately. A degu's grudge runs deep, and could scupper any plans.

A FBOD is very different. The front paws and mouths lock together, and they roll across the floor together, but there is absolutely no squeaking. There's just the sound of them rolling across the floor together.

[mkish]

I don’t think they will get into any serious fighting but you know with stuff like this people usually are worried about the worst that could happen. I’ve read the guide a couple times but will go over it.
The cages are on top of eachother at the moment but I could try and find a way to put them next to eachother?

[deguconvert]

Putting them next to each other is a much better help to you than one on top of the other. They have better interaction this way. Get to know each other better by sight and smell. They are on equal footing this way. All are key ingredients to setting up a good foundation for them to go through introductions that end successfully.