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Babies!
Sept 27, 2020 2:05:28 GMT
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Post by joannetunbridge on Sept 27, 2020 2:05:28 GMT
Hi everyone! I bought 2 degus in June of this year. The petstore assured me that they were 2 boys. Yes, you know what's coming! I was playing with them today and noticed another set of ears inside their bed! When I took it out and careful looked, there are babies inside! I'm not sure how many as I didn't want to disturb them. They look rather large but I have no idea how old they are. Neither one looked 'fat' or changed in any way so I've no idea when they were born. I'm going to buy another cage and separate them but I'm not sure when to do that as I've no idea how old they are. I've read that the female could be pregnant again! Any advise would be greatly appreciated.
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Post by savvy on Sept 27, 2020 2:20:56 GMT
Oh dear, but what a lovely surprise.
Gestation for degus is 90 days so it's just possible that she was pregnant when you first bought her home.
Ok, first things first, you need to baby proof your cage asap as the pups will be fully active and wanting to explore as soon as possible. You need to block the bottom part of the bars as they can walk straight through the gaps, remove anything they can fall off, over or into. Think of them as toddlers with about as much common sense.
You need to identify which one of them is male and he will need to be separated, but as you say, mum might be working on her 2nd litter already. She will need an enriched diet to help her through both the pregnancy and feeding the little ones. Mum will need to stay with the pups.
I fully expect that in the next 48 hours you will know how many pups there are, but they are a joy to have and watch.
We can guide you through everything you need to know and please don't be afraid to ask questions, there are no silly ones when it comes to degus.
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Post by deguconvert on Sept 27, 2020 3:06:13 GMT
That is quite the discovery, but not an unusual one. After the dominant male in our group of three died, the two remaining males went into such deep mourning that we were afraid they wouldn't survive. So, I went to an "all male" store, meaning all animals in there were vet certified to be male, and after much searching through a throng of at least 40 young "male" degu pups, came home with two. I asked several store clerks, and finally the manager, all of whom said they were vet certified male. I asked, because although I had only ever seen male degu anatomy, my examinations of every single pup suggested they were female, buy hey . . . I am NOT a vet, so I must be wrong. Introductions went REALLY WELL!! Whew! I thought we had lucked out. About 100 days later, both girls delivered 6 pups each during the night, and kept them well hidden. We knew for sure they weren't there a day or two previous . . . and that's about it. Clearly the vet didn't know what they were talking about, and no wonder the introductions went so well. To our dismay, both girls were pregnant again already, as was proven within 6-7 weeks as the two girls grew in girth. We had to work quickly to build another cage for the older boys that would be big enough to also hold the male pups. You need to know that degu pups are born fully haired, eyes open, and they are extremely mobile. They are precocious and will explore relentlessly. You will want to ensure that they cannot access areas where they can fall a distance, and you need to ensure that the bars of your cage are no wider than 1 cm apart. If they are, the pups will walk right through and you may lose them. They also do not have temperature regulation, so depend on the warmth of the adults, or their siblings to keep their body warm. If you see a pup wandering in the cage, don't be afraid to reach in and touch it. If it feels cool to the touch, tuck it inside your shirt, or shirt sleeve, or bra, and warm it up there. Once it is warm return it to the nest. Don't worry about this, your smell on the pup will not cause the pup to be rejected. If it's doesn't seem to be cool, just pop it back into the nest with everyone else. If you can, check on them often to make sure no one is out and about and chilled, or escaped, or stuck and in trouble. I got into the habit of counting everyone just so I knew for sure the right number were present and all were well. Also, Mom, which ever one she is, will be needing more food, and foods that are dense in nutrition. What do you feed you degus? You will be seeing your pups start to try solid foods by the end of their first week. Which will start to increase the amount of food you are putting in as well. Pups are voracious eaters, so be prepared. You may need to have an extra bowl or two in there. How to ID a male and female degu deguworld.proboards.com/thread/13070/degus If you are having any difficulty with figuring out who is male and who is female, don't be shy to ask us. We are quite glad to help you out.
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Post by joannetunbridge on Sept 27, 2020 20:57:35 GMT
Thank you so much! We have 3 and look to be all boys. They are already out of the nest and wandering about. We have been touching and holding them so they become tame and neither parent is bothered about that. They are maybe 2 inches in body length. They don't seem to be eating solid food at the moment but I have put an extra bowl of food in. I'm going to speak to my vet to see about spaying mom. I feed them commercial degu food with lots of added dried leaves, some seeds and herbs and plenty of hay. Dad seems to be great with them, he's always carrying them back into the nest just for them to turn around and follow him back out. Lol
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Post by savvy on Sept 27, 2020 21:21:27 GMT
It will be virtually impossible to get mum spayed (I've only ever come across one female neutering of a degu and that was done for medical reasons), but neutering dad shouldn't get too much of a problem - the male pups will need to be done too if you are planning on keeping them.
Oh, and I'll get in before anyone else, we want pictures! Lol.
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Post by deguconvert on Sept 27, 2020 21:50:12 GMT
I am very glad for the addition of food and the changes you are making. It is very possible that you have found the pups just hours after birth, and if that is the case, they will not be trying solid foods just yet. Earliest is four days of age, and that really depends on each pup. By the time they are a week you will likely see all of them trying nibbles here and there. At four weeks age they will be mostly weaned. Females take the surgery of spaying much worse than males take neutering. Both surgeries are tricky, but it is less dangerous to the male. It is also strongly advised that these surgeries not be done to degus less than a year of age. I expect that you are thinking that to have the female spayed means you can keep them all together, but that is not advised either. If you have four males in with one female, they will attack each other and will all be trying to mate with her. It could become very, very dangerous for all of them. I would expect the fighting to be fatal, or at the very least it would bring about extensive injuries. You said you would be looking for a secondary cage for the male she came with . . . and I would recommend that you look at something large enough to not only house him, but the three males she has just given birth to. Have you looked at this thread? deguworld.proboards.com/thread/9396/forums-cage-size-recommendations This will help you to know what kind of space (measured cumulateive surface area in the cage, not total volume) you will need for four degus. Also, just so you know, while pups are small . . . they are extremely busy and in fact demand more space to burn off more energy. If your female is indeed pregnant again, there is the strong potential that her second litter will include female pups that could then be companions for her going forward. You need to know that your male pups will need to be separated from Mom between 6 and 7 weeks of age. To leave them with her any longer than that will bring on mating events, as the pups will be sexually able to produce offspring, potentially by 7 weeks, and definitely from 8 weeks and on. SO . . . if she isn't expecting as a result of possible mating following birth, she could be impregnated by her sons if they are not removed by 7 weeks of age. Absolutely DO leave the pups at least until 6 weeks of age with Mom, and if you have chosen to leave him in, with Dad, so that they get the full benefit of the training that comes of being with them. To part them at the age of weaning is too early, and it results in behavioral issues of aggression that are detrimental to other degus and to their bond with their humans.
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Post by savvy on Sept 27, 2020 22:03:16 GMT
Just to clarify, I didn't mean all in one cage with mum.
Oh and please check that the babies are all male, it can be quite difficult to tell when they are so tiny.
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Post by joannetunbridge on Sept 28, 2020 1:51:18 GMT
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Babies!
Sept 28, 2020 1:52:45 GMT
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Post by joannetunbridge on Sept 28, 2020 1:52:45 GMT
Tried to post a picture, not sure if you can access it.
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Post by savvy on Sept 28, 2020 2:25:28 GMT
I can! Oh he's so sweet! Adorable.
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Post by deguconvert on Sept 28, 2020 6:41:28 GMT
Definitely a degu pup!! And beautiful!!
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Post by bouncy on Sept 28, 2020 7:47:17 GMT
Oh oh oh, I want pups!
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Post by savvy on Sept 28, 2020 10:36:34 GMT
Make the most of this time, they grow really quickly!
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Post by winic1 on Sept 28, 2020 14:28:40 GMT
When in June did you get them? Was it more than about 90 days ago, so was it early to mid June, or was it the end of June? Just wondering, have you looked at the bottoms of both degus and confirmed that they are different? That you have one male and one female? Or do they look the same and you might have two females?
If the pet store messed up once, they may have messed up twice. Just wondering if you might need to be prepared for another surprise...
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Post by joannetunbridge on Sept 28, 2020 14:48:38 GMT
I got them on June 13th. There are not really range enough for me to check but I didn't think of that! They could be both female, he did say they were the same sex. The babies are just starting to nibble food. I'm going to take the wheel out of that level as the babies are trying to go on it with the adult and i don't want a washing machine situation!
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Babies!
Sept 28, 2020 14:54:00 GMT
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Post by joannetunbridge on Sept 28, 2020 14:54:00 GMT
Sorry, tame not range.
There's about a 2 week gap. 90 days would've been around sept 9th ish from when we got them and I'm not sure how old they are. Can anyone make an educated guess from the photo?
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Post by savvy on Sept 28, 2020 15:06:29 GMT
To me it's working out that they are just on the cusp of when you got them, so it's almost impossible to say. If they are attempting to eat that makes them about a week old, but she could have delivered later than 90 days.
If you can get the adult degus into a glass bowl, offering a pile of sugar free porridge oats tends to help them stay put, you can photograph from beneath and get a better look. You can do the same with the babies.
We are more than happy to look at the pictures to give our collective opinion if that helps.
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Babies!
Sept 28, 2020 17:05:22 GMT
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savvy likes this
Post by joannetunbridge on Sept 28, 2020 17:05:22 GMT
Thank you. We enticed them into their log with oats then lifted their tails from the other end. Def 1 boy and 1 girl! Going to ask my vet about spaying and neutering so I can keep them together. Thank you so much for all your help and advise, it's been invaluable.
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Post by savvy on Sept 28, 2020 17:41:39 GMT
Keep us posted!
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Post by deguconvert on Sept 28, 2020 18:20:22 GMT
Do you know their ages? It is strongly discouraged to have the female spayed (the surgery is very hard on females and they do not do well with it), and strongly discouraged to neuter males before they are a year of age. Removal of the testes before that time can cause great issues with healthy development.
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