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Fighting
Sept 10, 2020 15:11:40 GMT
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Post by tedanddougal on Sept 10, 2020 15:11:40 GMT
So I have 2 degus and when I first got them the fighting wasn’t serious they are both males and brothers. Recently the fighting has become serious and I’m worried they will hurt each other. I’m thinking about separating them but if they have to be separated then unfortunately I don’t think I’ll have room for both😭 should I be thinking about getting rid of one? Or is there anyway to stop the fights
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Post by savvy on Sept 10, 2020 17:02:22 GMT
We need to look at several factors before we can fully get to the bottom of their fighting. Your answers to the following will greatly help.
How old are they? Degus go through adolescence from the age of 6 months to approx 18 months, sometimes longer. During this time fighting intensifies as they both try to become the alpha degu.
What size cage are they in? If the cage is too small, they will fight over the territory and try to drive the other degu away. This has nothing to do with how much food or toys you provide, this is due to space.
Also, can you describe the fighting? Is it boxing, chasing, mounting or is it getting to the point of causing injuries?
As soon as we know the answers to the above, we can try to work out what's going on between them.
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Post by deguconvert on Sept 10, 2020 19:11:16 GMT
I ditto the questions Savvy has asked.
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Fighting
Sept 10, 2020 21:20:23 GMT
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Post by tedanddougal on Sept 10, 2020 21:20:23 GMT
They are definitely under 18 months all the things that you said boxing etc they are doing I’m not sure how big there cage is but they are not in it full time they have a play cage with multiple floors and a big glass tank for night so that they don’t make lots of noise at night.
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Post by savvy on Sept 10, 2020 23:13:55 GMT
If I'm understanding it correctly, they have 3 separate cages; a day cage, a playpen and a night time glass tank. Is that right?
If so, this may be part of the issue. Three separate cages is effectively giving them three separate territories to fight over. Can you post some pictures of your cages so we can get a better idea of layout etc? We may be able to come up with a solution so they only have one large territory.
If they are less than 18 months old, then they are adolescent, so fighting is normal. Boxing, chasing and mounting are all part of that. If the fighting escalates then you need to be the top degu. A firm shout of 'no!' is sometimes enough to make them behave for a while. But sometimes the aggressor may need a short time out (being put into their pet carrier for a while) is sometimes enough to cool their little hot tempers.
All degus go through this stage, both males and females, and although it can be distressing to watch, as long as they aren't injuring each other, then you may have to let them sort it out. If injuries do occur then you need to separate the injured degu while he heals.
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Post by deguconvert on Sept 10, 2020 23:26:12 GMT
I am going to give you a link for our fighting guide. It will help you to understand what kind of fighting/how serious, you are seeing. There is something we call the FBOD (furball of death) that has to be interrupted and stopped. It is a clutch and roll thing that melds the degus into one ball and while in that clutch they are often furiously biting at necks, chests, and head, in order to do maximum damage. Please do have a read through. deguworld.proboards.com/thread/17619/deguconverts-detailed-introductions-fighting-guide You will also find advice within that thread. If you have questions, and I expect you may, please ask! No fighting situation is straight forward, and there are many ways to come at the problem. It isn't necessarily something that is quickly fixed. Often it can be a matter of months rather than days or weeks. Don't give up hope, though! You and your boys can get through it successfully.
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Fighting
Sept 11, 2020 7:39:51 GMT
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Post by tedanddougal on Sept 11, 2020 7:39:51 GMT
I’m not sure how to put pictures up but they have 2 homes one is a glass tank for nighttime and the other is there old cage which I use as a play cage thank you for answering my questions❤️
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Post by bouncy on Sept 11, 2020 7:55:29 GMT
Ted and Dougal (I assume) sound like a very confused and hormonal pair - a typical pair of teenagers then! Ok, first things. Don't "get rid" of one. Degus are social creatures and and need to live in either pairs or groups. As the others have said, there is a hormonal issue. Think of it as boys in gangs trying to decide who's in charge. As long as no blood is drawn, it needs to happen to decide who the alpha is. Boxing, mounting, etc are all normal, daily behaviour, and something I see every day from my youngest (2+ years) to my oldest (6+years). Degus are very territorial and, in the wild, could be as large as a km. If the territory is too small for the group, they will forcibly evict others. When we look at cage space, we're referring to their living habitat that they have full and permanent access to. When considering the size, volume is immaterial. We need to think about running space. We recommend a footprint no smaller than 100cm x 50cm, or as close as possible, because this lets them get up to speed. For an active pair, you'll need to give them two or three levels like this. And yes, toys are a must! This alone can stop the fighting. As for play pens, the space can only be counted if they have permanent access 24/7, otherwise it's like telling Mo Farrow he's got to stay in his bathroom until he's allowed out. Same goes for the tank. My two groups get to spend most evenings charging around my kitchen but, although they leave wee markers and piles of poo, they do recognise it as my territory and trot back in at bedtime. If you'd like to share some photos, we're happy to give advice on how your setup could be adapted. Virtually everyone came to the forum with inadequate housing, and we've worked with them to see their problems and concerns disappear.
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Post by bouncy on Sept 11, 2020 7:57:26 GMT
I’m not sure how to put pictures up but they have 2 homes one is a glass tank for nighttime and the other is there old cage which I use as a play cage thank you for answering my questions❤️ If you use the full Web browser version and click reply in the top right of the box, you can attach photos. Alternatively, host them in something like your Google photos, and paste the weblink.
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Fighting
Sept 11, 2020 19:31:43 GMT
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Post by tedanddougal on Sept 11, 2020 19:31:43 GMT
I can’t put on pictures for some reason but I have an Instagram @xtedanddougalx message me and I will send pictures
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Post by bouncy on Sept 12, 2020 17:43:25 GMT
I've sent you a message
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Post by bouncy on Sept 13, 2020 6:01:32 GMT
Ok, so here's Ted and Dougal's home. The cage is their daytime habitat, the tank is their bedroom, and they have supervised access for running around the room. Isn't the little cheeky chappy cute! OK, my initial concern is that the habitat, especially the cage, is too small, and that your fighting is caused by this. You somehow need to expand their permanent running area. I already have ideas and thoughts, but could you provide a little information, such as the dimensions of the tank, whether you'd consider a new cage to replace the cage and vivarium you have, or whether you'd want to build on what you have? Also, how are your DIY skills and finances? I'll let the others comment too, because thats how we work, but I'll save my thoughts until I have your answers!
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Post by bouncy on Sept 13, 2020 6:02:20 GMT
I've just spotted his camouflaged brother lol
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Post by deguconvert on Sept 13, 2020 8:00:14 GMT
Waiting on your answers, too. They look like lovely goos!
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Post by savvy on Sept 13, 2020 9:38:37 GMT
I spotted the camouflaged brother first! Not sure what that says about me, lol. They are beautiful little guys.
I do agree that their cages is too small, even with supervised access to the room and the vivarium, they really don't have enough actual living space and that does cause fighting between even the most bonded pair.
I also have concerns that the base of their current cage is plastic, it may not be too longer before they start chewing their way out.
Please don't feel bad about our comments, as stated before, we've all started off with cages that are too small or badly designed.
Possible solutions; New, much larger cage. Finances and space depending.
Could the vivarium be extended upwards? So that they have various levels above it? They would have to be metal, as opposed to glass because they would need ventilation. I'm sure we could come up with a design if we put our heads together which would be easy, and cost effective to build.
Another solution may be to find a wardrobe or some similar piece of furniture that the vivarium fits in the bottom of and build the rest of the cage into that, obviously adding vents, mesh doors etc.
Have a look on eBay or Gumtree for a second hand adventura or liberta type cage, they do occasionally come up and most just need a good clean.
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Post by bouncy on Sept 13, 2020 11:09:08 GMT
Could the vivarium be extended upwards? So that they have various levels above it? They would have to be metal, as opposed to glass because they would need ventilation. I'm sure we could come up with a design if we put our heads together which would be easy, and cost effective to build. I already have ideas for building on top of the vivarium, depending on its size
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Post by savvy on Sept 13, 2020 11:11:06 GMT
Could the vivarium be extended upwards? So that they have various levels above it? They would have to be metal, as opposed to glass because they would need ventilation. I'm sure we could come up with a design if we put our heads together which would be easy, and cost effective to build. I already have ideas for building on top of the vivarium, depending on its size I knew you would. 😊
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Fighting
Sept 14, 2020 7:04:53 GMT
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Post by tedanddougal on Sept 14, 2020 7:04:53 GMT
I’m not sure of the dimensions but I will measure them after school
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Fighting
Sept 14, 2020 7:06:34 GMT
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Post by tedanddougal on Sept 14, 2020 7:06:34 GMT
Ok, so here's Ted and Dougal's home. The cage is their daytime habitat, the tank is their bedroom, and they have supervised access for running around the room. Isn't the little cheeky chappy cute! OK, my initial concern is that the habitat, especially the cage, is too small, and that your fighting is caused by this. You somehow need to expand their permanent running area. I already have ideas and thoughts, but could you provide a little information, such as the dimensions of the tank, whether you'd consider a new cage to replace the cage and vivarium you have, or whether you'd want to build on what you have? Also, how are your DIY skills and finances? I'll let the others comment too, because thats how we work, but I'll save my thoughts until I have your answers! . I’d like to build rather than buy a new cage if possible
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Post by bouncy on Sept 14, 2020 7:51:59 GMT
Ok, as soon as we know the dimensions of the tank, we can make that the starting point.
Please don't worry. We are certainly not judging you - the fact that you've come on here shows that you want the best possible life for Ted and Dougal. We just want happy goo slaves (goos are never satisfied). Measure the tank when you get back from school, and we can start to think of solutions within your budget!!
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