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Post by vchan000 on Sept 26, 2020 13:47:14 GMT
*SAD INCOMING NEWS. WILL BE ASKING ADVICE WITH EXPLICIT DETAILS*
Well. Last night she miscarried one pup. No hair, not fully formed, and by the time we noticed, partially eaten. While we're sad, we're also unsure.
Can she still be pregnant? Do goos expel nonviable babies and carry the rest to term, or is she done? The one baby was 7-8 hours ago and we aren't sure of birth window.
We dont know if we should rake her to the vet or leave her be to avoid further stress. She's eating both regular food and treats, moving around fine and not showing signs of distress.
She was up to 309g as of 5 days ago
Suggestions?
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Post by bouncy on Sept 26, 2020 15:25:34 GMT
Be very careful handling her - the continued handling could cause miscarriage.
As for the others, I'm afraid I have no idea! I guess it may be a natural reaction to eject a foetus. Having something decomposing inside is sure to endanger the healthy development of pups. Fingers crossed for the others - at least it confirms your pregnancy suspicions, so the ongoing weighing to determine whether she's expecting!
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Post by vchan000 on Sept 26, 2020 15:47:19 GMT
We're watching her carefully but are hands off for now. As long as she's eating, drinking and moving normally we wont handle her. But if anything goes downhill she's going straight to the vet
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Post by moletteuk on Sept 26, 2020 16:47:39 GMT
I don't know the answer either but I am quite concerned for her. Does your vet have an emergency phone line at the weekends where you could try and find out if it is possible to misscarry just one pup.
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Post by deguconvert on Sept 26, 2020 17:21:18 GMT
I know that my sister had a miscarriage, but 7 months later gave birth to her second daughter. She was a full term baby, and it was determined that my sister must have been carrying twins. We have no idea how they didn't realize that fact at the time of the miscarriage, since they checked her over thoroughly to make sure there were no tissues remaining that could cause infection. If a human can do it, I would assume animals can as well? There is also the potential that she was carrying only one pup.
I ditto Moletteuk's suggestion.
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Post by moletteuk on Sept 26, 2020 18:09:33 GMT
Thinking about this some more, her weight and shape would suggest that she does have other pups in there. I think try and keep things calm around her but watch her like a hawk for any signs of distress or discomfort or just doing anything odd, or her cagemate acting odd.
This is quite explicit, but I think you should be as informed as you can be, the main concern for me is that if any pups are dead and get stuck inside the mother, that can kill the mother within a very few days. I think it's in your favour that this pup was malformed, so there is a reason it may have been ejected early. The worrying scenario is if this is her going into labour and getting stuck after the first pup.
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Post by savvy on Sept 26, 2020 18:44:16 GMT
I have known other animals that have miscarried one baby and gone on to deliver the others safely. BUT in these cases all of the babies were carried in their own individual membrane sacks inside mum. I'm not sure if degus carry in this way or if they are all in one.
I think it's sensible to keep an eye on her and keep the vet on standby just in case urgent care is required.
It is perfectly natural for babies to be ejected when they are not viable as their presence is dangerous to both the mother and the remaining babies. The fact that she's acting normally i.e. not grieving tells me there are more in there. But this is just my opinion.
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Post by deguconvert on Sept 26, 2020 19:13:49 GMT
We did have a female that died because her babies could not come out. We didn't know that she was struggling until it was far too late, and that is a memory I have not tried to hold close. Until I read both Molettuek's and Savvy's posts above . . . I didn't remember it.
IF you have ANY concern about your girl, call your Vet's weekend emergency line and discuss what you see going on.
I guess you might be able to gently cup your girl and see if you can feel the movement of the pups inside. If she has a favorite treat that she will walk onto your hand to eat, then tempt her to your hand with the food. Once she is on your hand, put a couple more pieces of treat there and then gently put your other hand under so that she is now sitting on both hands. Cup her between both hands, lightly, and just wait while she eats to see if you can feel any movement in her belly. If the pups are still hairless, they may be too small to feel movement just yet. Then again, they might be far enough along to detect. Just be very gentle, don't lift your hands up so there is air below, sit still and let her thoroughly enjoy the treat. Focus your senses on her belly and what you feel.
Let us know.
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Post by vchan000 on Sept 26, 2020 20:03:20 GMT
We contacted our rescue coordinator first thing this morning, and they got us in contact with their go-to vet. We have a list of symptoms and things to watch for, but as Azula is currently moving freely, taking and eating treats and drinking water we're to observe at home for now.
The vet said its absolutely possible to carry more babies to term. That being said we're to watch for bleeding, obvious pain, lethargy, temp. drop and excessive licking at nether regions. Unless there's more symptoms we're not to take her in to avoid stressing her.
EXPLICIT INFO NEXT
We found part of the baby skull while doing a thorough search of the cage. It's about the size of a chickpea if that helps people determine age.
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Post by vchan000 on Sept 26, 2020 21:10:03 GMT
And immediately after I hit send on the last post we had more blood in the cage. Currently waiting in exam room for vet
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Post by savvy on Sept 26, 2020 21:28:11 GMT
Oh no!
Keep us posted. Hugs!
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Post by deguconvert on Sept 27, 2020 2:35:59 GMT
OH MY!! I'm so thankful you've been watching so closely!!
I wonder how things are going? I hope they have gone well?
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Post by vchan000 on Sept 27, 2020 3:19:22 GMT
Sorry, afternoon was kind of crazy. Vet thinks shes health and the blood is normal post partum. Took an xray and identified 2 more potential pups, one was clear the other less so. She figured there about halfway through gestation so another month to 6 weeks assuming they remain healthy. Hopefully I'll get a copy of the xray from the rescue (I asked) and I'll share it if I do. We'll continue to monitor and wait!
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Post by deguconvert on Sept 27, 2020 21:15:22 GMT
WHEW!!
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Post by vchan000 on Oct 29, 2020 20:18:02 GMT
Into the final two weeks!
So far, there's been no more pups, and she's actually lost weight (282g, down from 309g before the miscarry) But... she's still much larger than any other goo in the house so we're not declaring her clear yet. For reference, her two prior kids who are 7 months old today weighed in at 188g for the girl, and 231g for the boy/daddy. The other adult goo in the house is Mac at 221g (but we're in a constant battle to keep his old man weight up, so I'm not sure he counts)
Redid my math on due dates, and realized in my panic I'd gone a little too long with the previous estimates. 90 days from separation on August 13 is November 11, with I think our absolute end date being the 14th. Fingers crossed! Now if we're crossing them for "yes pups" or "no pups" I couldn't tell you lol
Toph's weight has been steady for a month at this point, so we're pretty confident she's in the clear.
Just figured I'd bring a quick update to the whole boondoggle.
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Post by yasmin on Oct 31, 2020 1:15:19 GMT
Enjoyed receiving the update. Curious to see what the next week or two bring.
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Post by moletteuk on Oct 31, 2020 11:14:12 GMT
Good to hear that Azula is doing OK, it doesn't sound like she is pregnant with the slight weight reduction, I'm sure it will be nice to know for definite in a couple of weeks, even if there is a little disappointment.
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Post by vchan000 on Nov 6, 2020 18:57:21 GMT
Azula is the undisputed Queen of Mixed Signals
No sign of rapid weight gain.
also;
Furiously nest building in the last 2 days and spectacularly territorial about her chosen box.
FFS Zuzu, give me a sign.
5 days to 90, 8 days to 93.
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Post by savvy on Nov 6, 2020 19:52:11 GMT
Watch for nipples! She can't hide those, lol.
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Post by vchan000 on Nov 19, 2020 20:19:54 GMT
Ok, we're now 8 days past 90, and I can say she's just super good at PRETENDING to be pregnant. We actually called it last Saturday which would have been day 93. A little sad that we never got to play with baby degus, but mostly relieved that we avoided that headache.
The two girls are officially back on the "available for adoption" list with the local rescue, but of course adoptions are currently on hold due to the pandemic, and will likely stay on hold through the holiday season. (The Rescue puts a moratorium on adoptions for the month of December to avoid people looking for pets as surprise gifts)
Once both of those are done, Drew and I are likely keeping the ladies anyways lol, but it's not official until we fill out the paperwork.
The sort of plan is when our old man Mac passes on, we're getting the boy who started this whole mess neutered, and then we'll reintroduce him to his mom and sister.
Thank you everyone for the help, support, advice and handholding through all this. it's been a wild, emotional ride for me
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