How long to wait to introduce new pups to newly intoduced pa

[dennie]

I'm looking to find out how long you must leave a newly introduced pair to more pups.

I lost one of my boys on Friday, leaving Comet by himself at 6 and a half yo.
I took in a lone boy on Tuesday that was born with 4 other girls. He is 11 weeks old and he is currently settling into his own temp cage beside my boys main cage. The pup i have named Taco has just started to become enquisitive to me being in the room and no longer running for cover! I won't attempt introduction until Tuesday or Wednesday next week under the pup introduction steps on Degutopia (will this way be okay or should I follow adults for a 12 week old - he was born June 7th)??

I know i will need more pups as this will leave my other boy alone when Comet passes.

Providing the pup introduction goes well, There is currently pups available near me, accidental litter, (I'm in Edinburgh, Scotland, its quite hard to find them).
These pups will be ready to leave at 8 weeks old on 17 September. How long should you wait to introduce new pups to a newly introduced pair?

Please advise,

Thank you,

[deguconvert]

Hmmm . . . So, let me restate what I think you are saying just to be sure I have it right.

You very recently lost one of your original pair, which leaves one older male, Comet, by himself. (I am very sorry for your loss! I am sure you are feeling the absence of the one that died, as is Comet. I am glad that you are not hesitant to bring in more males to be companions for Comet. How is Comet doing? Have you seen him grieving, reluctant to enjoy food or activities? Has he shown interest in the pup you brought in on Tuesday?)

Tuesday you brought home the 11 week old male pup, who is beginning to adjust to his new space and in showing interest in you when you enter the room.

You are wondering if you should follow an introductory method that is recommended on Degutopia? Do they consider a 3 month old to be adult? I will tell you that at three months, pups are beginning to be more assertive, and by six months they are entering in to what we call the adolescent/young adult phase which typically lasts from six months to eighteen months of age. This time can be VERY fraught with aggression and dominance fighting. We have guides on here as well. Can I ask you to read through it?

Here is the link. deguworld.proboards.com/thread/17619/deguconverts-detailed-introductions-fighting-guide

I would say that you will be complicating things considerably to introduce your current boy and the pup you have right now, and then add in more pups in 2-3 weeks. I think you could be overwhelming your older boy with all the youthful energy that will be present with the pups. What is Comet's health and energy like? Having a pup that will be about seven weeks older than the pups you want to bring in in September means that he will be eight months old when they are 6 months old, and there will be a LOT of adolescent issues either developing or full blown. Though some DO wait until some time later in that six to eighteen month age range to enter into the fighting.

I want to ask you . . . how many degus do you want to have? What do you have for space for them, and for housing? I ask, because you will have to increase the surface area available for your degus for each additional degu in your numbers. We follow a much larger cage size recommendation on our forum than what is recommended on Degutopia.

Our cage size recommendations deguworld.proboards.com/thread/9396/forums-cage-size-recommendations

Young degus in particular need a lot of space, and having them in small quarters increases the intensity of the dominance fighting that happens in the young adult phase. You already have the eleven week old male, and I think you are very wise to consider having other male pups near his age. Have you looked to find a single male that is two years or older that you could introduce to Comet? This might be a lot easier on him. He wouldn't be run ragged, and then you could have another group of young males as well. BUT that depends on what YOU can reasonably do. If that idea is not good . . . then it isn't. We will work with you to the best of our ability to accomplish a successful introduction.

[bouncy]

Hi,

First of all, please take Degutopia with a pinch of salt - it hasn't been updated for years, so hasn't developed with our understanding of goos. Sorry!

I would let your goos guide you. Comet is likely grieving, but may be desperate for company to fill the hole. Taco is away from his family and all the other goos he knew and may be desperate for company too. Watch for the obvious behaviour, like happy interactions at the cage bars, nest building to be next to each other, and then consider a face to face meet in a neutral place - perhaps a bathtub. You may find this happens quickly, or several months, but don't force things, or you'll end with two goos with permanent grudges.

One thing to bear in mind is that Comet is middle-aged, so he may become irritated by Taco's boundless energy, or he may just want to be an instant uncle. I personally introduced two twelve week old pups to my lone goo at the rescue, and they instantly bonded, but there's no guarantees. Others here have had problems doing this. Have a read of our guide to introductions, but don't hesitate to ask. We've all had different experiences

[dennie]

Hello Deguconvert and Bouncy, and thank you both so much for taking the time to advise me.

Deguconvert-
Yes I think we both feel lost without his presence, in saying this Comet seems in good fettle, he still eats and comes out to me, he let me tickle him for longer than usual this morning and I bought a snugglesafe for him which he absolutely adores! Comet was always the more outgoing of my duo, he always seemed to be the dominant of the two, though the other boy would at times make a stand! Im unsure if Comet has actualy really noticed him - but he must be able to smell he is there, Taco is in a John Hopewell cage (61x90x45cm) xnext to Comets X-trail Little Zoo cage (93.5 x 63 x 159cm). I have seen Taco has kind of been interested a few moments by sniffing around the edge of the cage near Comet but that's about it so far.

On Degutopia they seem so only see pups up to 8 weeks, then it jumps to an adult introduction.. i was tempted to try it out to see and if it was unsuccessful then follow the guides for the adult. Having had a read of your guid it seems to be similar to the adult one, i will read it through again to be sure though. What do you recommend?

Comet has spurs which I take him to my vets every 10-12 weeks to have filed down, however (and this is another concern of mines) he has started to scratch his ears and shake his head, one of his eyes is also quite promenant when he eats - I want to have him xrayed to check that his top roots are not growing up or if there may be a tumour ! I don't want him in any pain, he does seem irritated, but he does seem to still be happy and bright, fairly active, always wants out and about climbing up and down our stairway in the hall!

I dont want to overwhelm him, so i will definitely hold off on the new pups for now. I would like to have 4 or even 5, as mentioned, I dont want Taco to be left alone when Comet passes, so I'm just thinking ahead for the wee man

I dont have the space to have another large cage permanently to house a seperate group for young males unfortunately. I only was looking for pups as everything I had read seemed to tell me it would be easier for Comet to take to a younger pup, have I in fact made it harder for him? Oh dear

Bouncy -
Yes, I do think Comet is desperate for some degu company, I really hope that the two will take to each other well. So you think I should maybe wait a while longer than a week till I see some sort of interactions between the cages? My plan as mentioned was to do the pup intro, but i fear the pup may be too old for this.
I'll be starting to sit in the room from tomorrow as im still working from home. Little Taco has stopped running for cover while I'm in the room (livingroom) now so I think its time for me to sit in there for the majority of the day with some noise of the TV on (quietly while I'm working).
I'm going to read over the introductions guid on here some more times! Thanks!

[deguconvert]

I don't think you have made it harder . . . it's more that degus are complex in nature/character and means that no matter what you are doing, it is seldom as simple a matter as we think it will be. New water bottles? They won't drink. New wheel? They ignore it. New food? One loves it, the other hates it, the third might have diarrhea. New wheel? They dismantled it, completely ignore it, fight over it, tip it over, run so much the bearing is already broken!

SO . . . Comet and Taco could get along perfectly from the get go and have no issues. Or Taco could be of a dominant nature and in a few months time will challenge Comet. Comet could completely dominate Taco and things be quickly over, or they could be evenly matched and fighting become really vicious, or Taco could win but Comet not want to submit, or they could outright hate each other. OR ALL OF THE ABOVE depending on the day. You really won't know what you're going to see until you start intros and things start to happen.

It could be that I'm just giving you too much information. LOL!

One thing . . . how many levels are in your X-trail cage, and are they complete levels or more like half or a third of the width?

[dennie]

Yes I know what you mean, they are definitely sensitive little souls at times!
There is never too much information, its really good to speak to someone that has a wealth of knowledge!

My xtrail has the original two levels with two half levels and ladders (all metal, with metal sheet floors. I have added lots of perches to hop around and 3 other wooden platforms that are just short of the half floors included with the cage. I can send you some photos?

I have had a think about possibilities, and I would like to go ahead with trying to mix these two wee guys. If its not working after time and patience then I can look for a tall slim cage around the depth and width of the John Hopewell cage, this could house Taco and some other pups - this will fit in a space at the other side of my livingroom. So there is definitely room for movement in worst case for these little guys!

[bouncy]

You've nothing to lose by giving it a go! As I said, I managed a lonely goo intro to two 12 week old pups in 30 seconds of instant mutual affection in their very first meet!

[deguconvert]

I ditto Bouncy! Go for it!