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Post by yasmin on Jul 20, 2020 2:12:01 GMT
I have three degu brothers - Jet, Jax and Jos. They turned one year old in May.
Jet has always been a bit of a loner, and he and Jax would fight on and off - battling for dominance – but it never lasted very long and always ended up with the three of them sleeping and eating happily next to each other. That was until a few weeks ago when I found blood in the cage and Jax with a bleeding swollen hand. I separated Jet from his brothers by locking him in the bottom third of the cage, then took Jax to the vet who prescribed antibiotics.
Day later, I let them be together again, but it took only moments before Jet and Jax were locked in a Furball of Death (FBD). Again separated Jet. Later in the day, thought I'd let laid-back Jos – who always got along with both Jet and Jax – go down to visit Jet. They were getting along fine for a few minutes and then suddenly FBD with Jet ending up on the wheel with a large clump of Jos' fur in his mouth.
So, again separated Jet where he spent a the next couple of weeks in the bottom third of the cage as I awaited my order for a new cage. He and the other two communicated between a small area of uncovered grating between the floors. Seemed more frantic than aggressive and no one got their tails or toes nipped by the other.
Received the new cage last week and now Jet has his own two levels. He now lives side by side with Jos & Jax's 3 level cage on one side and my girls' (Inken and Nod) 3 level cage a few inches away on the other side.
All are eating well but there is seldom a quiet moment. There is a lot of chittering and squealing by the boys. I don't know if it means they want to be together or they are yelling at each other.
I find myself paralyzed by fear - I am very afraid of trying to let them meet on "neutral" ground.
I need some help, advice, and probably some encouragement.
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Post by bouncy on Jul 20, 2020 21:14:00 GMT
Well, I think you know what we're going to say about their age.......hormone central?
I would give them a week or so to calm down before you try a neutral meet again. This should also give the wounded to recover. If you're worried about things kicking off when you start the intros, keep a colander handy, which you can just drop over the aggressor. I know Titchycatnipsandwich swears by this.
Do you think having the girls so near is having an effect? Longer term, is having Jet neutered a possibility, so he can live with the ladies?
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Post by deguconvert on Jul 20, 2020 22:59:42 GMT
UGH!! I'm so sorry, Yasmin! That is a lot of stress, and I am sure you are feeling it even more intensely with all that has happened in the world at large, and in your own life. Little wonder that it is difficult to contemplate doing face to face meetings.
I tend to think that if they are yelling at each other as you describe, leaving them apart for a while will not be harmful to them. Ideally, letting things calm down until there is no exchange of loud noises, no sense of heightened energy (such as being on constant alert for each other, or waiting for just the right stimuli to burst into agitated movement), and/or you are seeing the happy warble or quiet laying near each other, will probably be most helpful to you and to them. If you see their agitation increasing, you may need to put more space between them. I don't know if that will mean placing Jax and Jos in the middle next to the girls, or the girls in the middle, but those are variations of placement that you can consider/try. Also remember the trick of putting a slab of cardboard between the cages to eliminate visibility if that is a source of increase.
Remember . . . this is not a reflection on you, or your care and love for them. This is totally degu nature and behavior, and the fact that they have a propensity to be contrary little nutters, especially at this age. That they waited this long to begin to have the dominance issues is perhaps a blessing. Had they started sooner, it would have made the last six months so much worse. I pray they pass through this stage of conflict quickly and with minimal struggle!
Sending you love!
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Post by yasmin on Jul 21, 2020 1:15:11 GMT
Well, I think you know what we're going to say about their age.......hormone central? If you're worried about things kicking off when you start the intros, keep a colander handy, which you can just drop over the aggressor. I know Titchycatnipsandwich swears by this. Do you think having the girls so near is having an effect? Longer term, is having Jet neutered a possibility, so he can live with the ladies? The colander idea is brilliant. I can do that. I don't think the girls near them is having an effect. Whenever I bring the girls near the boys, they don't seem to react at all - kind of ignore them, and vice versa. I am open to having Jet neutered but not sure I want to introduce him to the ladies because the ladies are very happy together and don't know if a third degu will complicate things. That said, I am open to the idea.
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Post by yasmin on Jul 21, 2020 1:28:01 GMT
I tend to think that if they are yelling at each other as you describe, leaving them apart for a while will not be harmful to them. Ideally, letting things calm down until there is no exchange of loud noises, no sense of heightened energy (such as being on constant alert for each other, or waiting for just the right stimuli to burst into agitated movement), and/or you are seeing the happy warble or quiet laying near each other, will probably be most helpful to you and to them. If you see their agitation increasing, you may need to put more space between them. I don't know if that will mean placing Jax and Jos in the middle next to the girls, or the girls in the middle, but those are variations of placement that you can consider/try. Also remember the trick of putting a slab of cardboard between the cages to eliminate visibility if that is a source of increase. ! I can move the cages around if necessary and I can easily put up a barrier between cages. Right now Jet is in the middle because I thought he would feel more comfortable with having "company" on both sides, and I was concerned that being too near the girls may cause Jax and Jos to start fighting. (If that happens, then I will need to consider neutering - no place for a 4th cage in that room.) I will listen for warbling instead of squealing. Though none of them are physically showing signs of aggression - no tail wagging, no charging, no hunching – they are very "jumpy" and there is definitely heightened energy. All three run up and down the cage, over and over again, and if I make a sudden move or there's a noise from outside or a shadow passing by the window, they freak out. Meanwhile, the girls remain calm. I also suspect that the three of them were separated from their mom too soon (they were 5 weeks old when I adopted them from the Humane Society; before that they were at an animal shelter in Montreal) so they do seem to suffer from anxiety/ADHD. Thank you both for your advice.
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Post by deguconvert on Jul 21, 2020 3:52:08 GMT
It's amazing what one to two more weeks with Mom can do for pups!! To us humans, it seems like an inconsequential amount of time . . . but when you think of it from their point of view, it's like a full 1/4 - 1/3 of their life life span if they are separated at the start of their fifth week and not given the full time up to say seven weeks. For us . . . that could be like losing 5-7 years with our parents when we are say 20 years old. Or I could have the ratios way off as far as an equivalent goes.
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Post by yasmin on Jul 30, 2020 1:01:15 GMT
Let Jet out for a run around the room, and set up a ramp up to his brothers' cage to see how they would react. Jet climbed up the ramp and his brothers greeted him. It wasn't warbling - more like squealing – but no aggressive moves from any of them. Jet did turn around several times to show them his behind. Is this a good sign?
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Post by deguconvert on Jul 30, 2020 1:21:07 GMT
I would say it shows improvement, but not resolution. The language sounds less aggressive, but the presenting of the behind typically means that he is still challenging them for dominance. Who would you say has been the dominant of the three?
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Post by yasmin on Jul 30, 2020 1:59:06 GMT
Don't know. Jax and Jet have been battling for dominance but I don't think anyone achieved that. They are equally matched and equally as stubborn. (In fact, Jos is the big one - he could plow them both down in an instant but seems to prefer to stay out of it.)
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Post by deguconvert on Jul 30, 2020 7:23:09 GMT
Well . . . it could be a bit of a long haul, I'm afraid. At 14 months of age . . . there is at least four more months in the typical adolescent/young adult stage, and starting as late as they have . . . it could go longer. It is probably mostly a case of dominance fighting. Which as you know, is no fun.
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Post by yasmin on Jul 31, 2020 2:22:28 GMT
Sigh .. . Oh well, at least I have the room for three large cages.
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