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Post by yoelle on Jun 10, 2020 1:27:40 GMT
Hi all, I have found a Petland (big corporate store) that carry degus in my city, however I was wondering if it is better to seek out a local breeder? I found this facebook group of local breeders (https://www.facebook.com/Norseclancritters/) but they have some colourful degus that I am not familiar with. What are the advantages and disadvantages of looking for a local breeder?
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Post by littlepaws1999 on Jun 10, 2020 2:17:19 GMT
So I’ve gone both routes. Are you in Canada by chance? I ask cause Norse clan is in Alberta.
My first Degu was a rescue, and since he was a lone boy, I got him neutered and wanted to find some friends for him. I’m in Ontario and it took me many months to find 2 baby girls. When I finally found some, they were born at a Petvalu in Southern Ontario. The disadvantage to this is that they were born from the siblings mating. This understandably caused a health condition (cardiomyopathy) in my degu Willow, and unfortunately passed at 4 and a half years old. Most corporate stores are supplied from breeding mills, without any care for genetics.
Just a few days ago I finally got my first pair from a breeder. If you are in Canada, I got mine from Gerbilimo In Quebec (Which also breeds the coloured fur). Now people have said that the coloured fur degus aren’t as healthy due to being a result of inbreeding as well. But good breeders are able to handle their pups, and do take considerably greater care for them. They are breeders for a reason after all. A good breeder would be sure to watch for certain characteristics and stop breeding from certain parents if problems arise genetically within the pups.
Dont rule out the adoption route either (yes I know easier said than done, if they are hard to find).
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Post by deguconvert on Jun 10, 2020 18:48:01 GMT
I think the difficulty there is in determining who is a good breeder. I have encountered a lot that are breeders strictly for the money and not the love of the animals. I know nothing of the Norse Clan, so will have to google them I guess.
Petland used to receive pups from homes where degus had been purchased from their stores in mixed sexes . . . primarily because the store employees were either untrained in how to determine the sex of each pup, or because the store did not predetermine the sex of the pups they were keeping all together for sell. So . . . there is strong potential that those pups may come from siblings that have bred. However . . . I think that potential is strong in most circumstances. Female pups can be impregnated as young as 6 weeks old when the nutrition they receive is good and abundant. Male pups can do the deed as early as 8 weeks of age. Male degus will impregnate ANY female, mother, sister, or daughter. So, if they are in a group together, pregnancy is always a potential, and as a result, so is inbreeding.
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Breeders
Jun 10, 2020 19:43:59 GMT
via mobile
Post by littlepaws1999 on Jun 10, 2020 19:43:59 GMT
I have talked with Norse clan as that was where I was going to attempt getting mine from. They used to be strictly a gerbil breeder (Norse clan gerbils) and a member of the American gerbil society (AGS). They have switch last year I believe to strictly breeding degus. I can’t seem to find it again, but I do believe they have degus imported from Germany, and places from the USA.
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Post by winic1 on Jun 10, 2020 21:49:59 GMT
To get the colors and amount of pied (white), they would have had to bring in degus from Germany and/or the USA. The breeders in the USA who have those colors got their degus from Germany. To keep getting such high numbers of these recessive colors, they would have had to be fairly well inbred at the start, and even tho different parent lines have been developed, if you all had the same grandparents or greatgrandparents, and they were bred from sisters/fathers/brothers/mothers/cousins, basically they are still being inbred. It takes careful outbreeding and cross-breeding to maintain genetic diversity and then bring the recessive colors back out. This takes many generations and much time, and you don't get entire litters of the recessive colors if you are doing that.
So, basically, all that genetic mumbo-jumbo means that the fancy colored degus are probably just as inbred as the pet store brother-sister-father-mother degus.
If you want to be sure that a breeder is being responsible, ask for the pedigree. This does not mean some official registered paper. It means the family tree, who bred with whom, for several generations back.
Some 'breeders' (and I see this in the bird world all the time) seem to think that different litters mean the animals are "unrelated". If a litter is born in January, and another in July, they will tell you they are "unrelated", as they are not the same batch of brothers and sisters. Well, people, if Mom and Dad are the same, THEY ARE RELATED. THEY ARE SIBLINGS. brothers and sisters.
Just had this situation with some birds I was inquiring about. Based on the colors of the two pairs, I'm suspicious. I asked to confirm that they are unrelated. He answered, "Yes, unrelated. They are not littermates." Dude, I did not ask if they were from the same batch of eggs. I asked if they were from the same PARENTS. And, buddy, you don't call a clutch of baby birds a "litter". Yeesh. Probably going to pass on them. Shame, beautiful birds. But if I wanted to let them breed....not good.
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Post by yoelle on Jun 10, 2020 23:06:45 GMT
Yah is for all the useful replies! I will talk more to this breeder or maybe try to find more online!
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Post by moletteuk on Jun 11, 2020 10:16:43 GMT
I think some of the patching patterns are dominant, rather than recessive, so they don't require the same level of inbreeding as for example the blues and other colours. Nevertheless they require some selective breeding and along with the long lifespan of degus this always detracts from breeding selection made for health and longevity.
Imagine the worst for the pet stores and you won't be far wrong and suspect the worst from any small breeder, ask lots of questions. Ideas for questions would be how many animals they have in total, how long they have owned the line they are breeding from and what the lifespan is, ask about any dental disease, how many litters they have a year, if they have any plain agoutis etc.
It can be very difficult to 'ethically' source degus. We try to educate about this on the forum but no matter where you get your degus everyone is welcome on the forum.
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