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Post by ellieeee on Jan 2, 2020 16:24:19 GMT
hi one of my two degus i believe is over weight, how can i reduce his weight. im pretty sure he has been stealing the his brothers food because he has lost weight where as the other (over weight one) has gained. this makes me worry that he has/or is going to have diabetes seen as there prone to it. i feed them 10g of science selective degu pellets a day and unlimited hay. i don't give them treats often because i know he's already over weight. what should i do and how do i know of he has diabetes or is over weight.
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Post by savvy on Jan 2, 2020 16:43:25 GMT
Welcome to the forum. First of all, how much do they weight and how old are they? Do they have any free time out if the cage and do they have access to wheels etc? I know I'm sort of bombarding you with questions, but your answers will help us advise you further. In the short term, you could add more forage to their diet so they are less reliant on the nuggets. Please take a look at our safe forage guide to see what else you can give them. deguworld.proboards.com/thread/8772/safe-plants-herbs-leaves-consumption and also our Internet shop guide as to where you can get them a really great range of tasty foodstuffs. deguworld.proboards.com/thread/15794/internet-shops-specialist-degu-foodsIt's quite usual to have a food hog in the group, so don't worry about that. Just another point I've thought of, are you sure they are both the same sex? If you have a mixed pair, it's quite possible that the larger one might be a pregnant female.
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Post by ellieeee on Jan 2, 2020 17:06:29 GMT
the one thats over weight weighs 309g and the less over weight one weighs about 230. they have a big wheel and they use it allot i let them put of the cage for a half a hour too a hour each week sometimes less depending on how busy i am which i know isn't as much as id like too get them out. i have a big cage which i put the size into degutopias cage thingy that tells you if its big enough or not and it says its good for 2-4 degus, would the forage be in replacement of the pellets? and one last question is my degus always seem hungry they go crazy when its time for food biting on the bars even though they get enough food and i don't know how to get them to stop being like this they make me feel like i starve them or something lol. oh and there deffo both males because ive had them for years and they've never had babys (about 3-4 years)
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Post by savvy on Jan 2, 2020 17:21:14 GMT
It's important to bear in mind that degutopia hasn't been updated for many years due to personal circumstances, so the information they have can be very out of date. If you can tell us what cage you have, or give us the sizes, we may be able to offer advice as to what modifications can be made to improve their living space. The forage would be as well as the pellets, but they would eat less pellets than now. It would offer a more natural foodstuff for them, and give them more flavours to enjoy. I would also offer safe woods, deguworld.proboards.com/thread/15616/safe-tree-woods-bark-list for them to chew so they can keep their teeth down. Edit: we have had cases in the past where owners have had degus for years, and then suddenly had babies. They didn't know they had a female in the group either. Have you had it confirmed that they are both males?
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Post by ellieeee on Jan 2, 2020 17:26:06 GMT
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Post by savvy on Jan 2, 2020 17:45:19 GMT
The only way to be sure of their sex is to take a look at their genitals. If you look at their bottoms, you need to get a clear view of the space between the anus and the cone. If it's a large space, then they are male, if there is a small space, or no space at all, they are female. If you want to post pictures, we can offer our opinion on gender.
In terms of the cage, it does lack running length, but can be modified to give them more space. Unfortunately ledges don't count in terms of cage area so must be discounted. However, as the cage is metal, you can replace the ledges with full levels very easily if you are good at DIY. I would also get rid of the metal ramps as degus have had legs become trapped in the gaps before now, resulting in some serious injuries.
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Post by ellieeee on Jan 2, 2020 18:19:45 GMT
i should have mentioned before hand that i don't have the metal ramps i replaced them with wood. the top bit of the cage has a full level of wood to fit the cage with a hole cut at the side for them to get to my middle layer i have which is half the size of the cage i also have other little ones dotted around the cage with hammocks hanging tubes a seagrass nest a hay rack ect i also have a digging box with this soil stuff which is coconut fibre which my hamster enjoys so i tried it with the degu which i hope is safe i checked and there both deffo males.
regarding the forage, do you know how much i would feed them? how much vegtables should i feed them because some people say 1-2 times a week i feed them a little bit of kale and some broccli every so often maybe once a week (sorry about all the questions)
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Post by savvy on Jan 2, 2020 18:24:35 GMT
Please don't worry about the questions, we are happy to answer them.
So glad you've modified the cage.
I feed one small piece of dried carrot about once a month, veg is high in sugar so it has to be limited. In terms of other forage, a good handful per degu, per day is fine. If they eat it all, then more can be offered. Ideally forage should be about 95% of their diet.
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Post by ellieeee on Jan 2, 2020 18:36:45 GMT
okay thanks, so when you say forage do you mean hay and other dried herbs and plants ? i just looked and i have some “wild forage mix” and this is what it has in it dried red corn flowers, dried sunflower petals. i realise this isn't enough but for now is this safe? i have it for my hamster when i do a zoo plus order i will get some better forage which will be soon.
is nugget feeding the way forward or is there a another option you could recommend?
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Post by savvy on Jan 2, 2020 18:42:46 GMT
Yep, that's the idea. Give them small quantities to begin with so they can get used to the change, but they should love it!
Not sure about the flower mix you have and my battery is running low. I'll check later if someone doesn't beat me to it, lol.
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Post by deguconvert on Jan 2, 2020 18:44:20 GMT
Hello Ellieeee, and welcome to the forum!! As well as the photos that are found here deguworld.proboards.com/thread/13070/degus . . . directly above your post, in fact. LOL! Another sure fire way to know they are male is when they perform a "deep cleaning" on themselves, which reveals the full length of their penis. It is difficult to mistake for anything else, if you catch them in the act. Most males are quite blatant in their deep cleaning, so if you do have males, they are either very discrete in their deep cleaning, or they do it when you aren't around. It often ends in a long (20 minute) session of loud and very frequent barking. A loud declaration to the world, or at least the whole household, and all female degus that they are potent and virile.
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Post by moletteuk on Jan 2, 2020 18:44:35 GMT
Forage is different from vegetables. Vegetables are usually a bit problematic and not necessarily all that healthy or well liked, but natural forage leafy plant matter is what degus are designed to eat and is very healthy. Lots of things count as forage so all types of grasses and hays, alfalfa hay, meadow plants, safe garden plants and flowers, herbs, tree leaves etc. Fresh or dried, self collected or bought in. Feed as much as you can get and as much as they will eat, introduce anything fresh gradually though.
Weight isn't always about eating with degus. The dominant degu will often try to become the heavier degu as it helps with their dominance. They can then go on to take all the best food and have first dibs of everything. Make sure you feed pellets in separate bowls so they both get their fair share. Forage is something that can be available all the time and they will graze at slowly so they should be less possessive over it and it's stimulating mentally and good for them and keeps them fuller for longer.
Degus will sometimes limit their activity to hold onto weight, especially if they feel they aren't getting enough food? Do they eat all their pellets? You could try introducing a second brand of pellet, in particular a grain free grass based pellet could be fed in unlimited quantities, something like one of the Versele Laga grain free pellets or JR Farm Grainless Guinea or Rosewood Naturals quad pellets. What pellets are they on now?
309g isn't necessarily a problem but I am a little concerned at the large difference between them. Has the smaller one been consistently dropping in weight? He might need a dental check or he could have a health issue if so.
I cage with more running space and a longer length would probably encourage more exercise, but we are getting on to lots of topics now and I don't want to overwhelm you.
edit: cross post so some things have already been covered.
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Post by moletteuk on Jan 2, 2020 18:47:59 GMT
You can get quite a bit of stuff to try at Zooplus. I think they still do Garden Herbs (the one with no grains added), ribwort, and dandelion in big bags. The green oats or OK too. You could also get a couple of different hays to try, I'm not sure if they do alfalfa hay too. It's worth getting a bag of dandelion roots, most degus love those for a natural treat. They do a Versele Laga grain free pellet and the JR Farm grainless guinea that are worth a try too.
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Post by ellieeee on Jan 2, 2020 18:48:59 GMT
hi moletteuk, thanks for the advice there currently on sciance selctive i feed 10gs per day for each goo and they fight iver the food all the time and they never leave any leftover im going to add more forage so do you recommend any brand in paticular? thank you
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Post by ellieeee on Jan 2, 2020 18:50:44 GMT
thank you
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Post by moletteuk on Jan 2, 2020 18:53:58 GMT
The 'wild forage mix' is fine if it just has those two flowers in.
Get the things I mention above from Zooplus and see how you go. They don't always take to grainless pellets but it's definitely worth a try for your boys with them being a bit food crazy at the moment.
After that you can try Ratrations or Hansemanns in Germany for forage if it works out well or try collecting your own in the summer, but the Zooplus stuff is good value and will give you an idea. If you do a Ratrations order get some of the degu seed mixes too, they are great for calcium and mineral content.
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Post by ellieeee on Jan 2, 2020 18:58:58 GMT
seed mixes for addition for forage? or for treats
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Post by moletteuk on Jan 2, 2020 18:59:48 GMT
It is possible to feed 100% natural based on forage and seeds but this means that you need to be totally certain you are providing everything they need and you need to artificially supplement vitamin d. I tend to advise that you stick with a certain amount of pellets. First step is always to introduce plenty of forage anyway and see how they respond. Small amounts of appropriate oil seed mix is the next logical step, but you would need to be careful with quantities with the weight difference in your boys. High calcium oil seed mix is what I would describe as a diet supplement in a mixed diet. Have a good read of our full feeding guide and all the links within it: deguworld.proboards.com/thread/16425/degu-feeding-guide
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Post by ellieeee on Jan 2, 2020 19:01:31 GMT
thank you
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Post by deguconvert on Jan 2, 2020 19:09:40 GMT
If I may inquire about your smaller degu . . . have you observed him while he is eating? Do you see food falling out of the sides or front of his mouth? Is there any wetness on his neck, chest, or cheeks? These are signs that there may be an issue in his mouth, in particular with his molars and potential spurs or tooth growth.
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