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Post by buckandbolt on Oct 21, 2019 0:25:12 GMT
Hi all, Some of you will remember us, we used to be very active back in the day but then I moved to the states for work and my SO isn't super in to the forum life. Anyway, our wonderful, beloved, pirate-degu Buck passed away on Saturday (hard to believe it is only yesterday) after a respiratory illness that wouldn't clear up. We're devastated and life is never going to be the same but we know he was really suffering the last few days so there's some comfort in knowing he's not in pain anymore. We're now dealing with the difficult conversations about what is best for Bolt. We want to do the best thing possible for him but we're really struggling to decide what that is, everything seems to come with pluses and minuses. Our options so far seem to be: - Try to find a boy his age and hope they form a bond. The problem here is the fact I am still overseas and my SO can work very long and exhausting days. Also, the boys used to have the run of the living room and hallway and spare bedroom during the day and so confining Bolt to a cage during the introduction period seems wrong to us after he has been used to so much freedom.
- Getting two younger degus (we have been advised if we get younger ones we would need to get a pair). Again, the issue around introductions are the same and we're also concerned if they are bonded and Bolt gets excluded it would be awful for him.
- Find a place to take Bolt. We'd want to be sure this was the right home for him where he had lots and lots space to run. We're thinking the deal would be people with a bunch of degus that came from different places and were introduced to each other as this seems the most likely scenario for him to be accepted. We'd obviously be devastated to let him go and it would be incredibly painful for us but to see him happy in a degu pile again would be worth it (maybe, I am honestly crying while typing.) If there was a sanctuary or something that would be the kind of thing we would wish for him
- Keep him as a solo degu as long as he's still happy and healthy. Here we're not so sure - how long does it take for degus to not be able to bond with other degus? If he's a solo for a month and starts looking depressed is it too late to rehome him. The other issue would be that being long distance, my SO travels to see me a fair bit. Normally my dad looks after the boys but he doesn't stay at our flat so we'd be constantly worried about Bolt getting lonely.
- Is it possible to get a fixed female? We're not sure about this but it seems like it would reduce the risk of fighting and rejection if we could.
- (Edit) We'd also like to know if any animals get on with Degus so we could maybe adopt one of them so he has company? Not sure if that is an option but we're going round and round in circles trying to work out what to do...
Sorry, I know this is super long. We've really been going back and forth on this and are getting really stressed about it all.
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Post by deguconvert on Oct 21, 2019 5:39:45 GMT
Hi Buckandbolt! I am so very sorry for the loss of Buck! It is so hard and so painful when we lose our fur babies. I am very grieved for you.
If you can hold off making a decision for a while, I would encourage you to do so. Give yourself and Bolt time to grieve and don't rush in to any decisions just yet. A little time can help a lot, in so many ways.
Pardon me for not quite getting it, but I think I need a little more information. You and your SO are not living together . . . but he travels to see you? You are in the US or you are in the UK? Bolt is with you, or your SO, or with your Dad? I mostly think you are saying Bolt is with you . . . but how does your Dad help with the degus/Bolt if he is in the UK. (Thinking that your home country is UK, and so your Dad is there?)
Can you remind me what age Bolt is? Are you in a US state that allows degus? How difficult are they to find where you are?
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Post by buckandbolt on Oct 21, 2019 11:46:40 GMT
Sorry for not being clear! Bolt is with my SO in the UK in South Yorkshire. My Dad is there too and he visits the boys when my SO is here with me and normally stays with them for an hour or so and makes sure they are fed and have some company, but we're worried that might not be enough for Bolt alone. We think Bolt is roughly 6? Unfortunately Degus aren't legal where I am in the US  I should add that they were rescues and were kind of traumatised when we got them so as much as he's a nice boy, he isn't super tame. |
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Post by deguconvert on Oct 21, 2019 15:58:33 GMT
Not being super tame is pretty common with a large number of degus. They are not cuddle bugs in general. There are some that are . . . but they are a fairly low percentage. They may well have experienced difficulty that caused trauma, but their shyness was probably there to begin with, and made stronger with events in their lives.
So . . . your SO is working hours that would make introductions difficult to accomplish? And hours that will leave Bolt alone the majority of the time. If your SO were able to find a pair of degus that are over the age of 18 months, then he could get a cage for them that would allow their cage and Bolt's cage to sit near each other . . . but you did say that Bolt has free run most of the day, so he could be roaming over their cage which would mean bites to tails, feet, and noses is potential. Definitely a difficult question to answer.
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Post by buckandbolt on Oct 22, 2019 13:45:50 GMT
The second cage is an interesting idea, thank you for sharing your insight. We're very worried though about the two new ones leaving Bolt out and not bonding with him. Does anyone have any experience with this or with other types of introductions and which ones work?
We're going round and round trying to make the right decision and it is so hard.
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Post by deguconvert on Oct 22, 2019 16:24:12 GMT
The reason I suggest two over the age of 18 months is because then they will be past, or mostly past, the adolescent stage, which will make things easier for you and for Bolt. Pups and young adults are harder on an older degu. He is not old, but he isn't young either, so that is something worth keeping in mind while looking. Also, it is important for you and your SO to know that introductions are best done slowly. Very seldom do degus instantly click. So living beside each other for a while, read that as weeks to months depending on how they are all reacting, is not uncommon at all. There are definitely instances where degus live beside each other, and LOVE each other through the bars, but HATE each other without bars in between. This is not a fail! They will still do well living like that, if that is the only way they can get along.
Sometimes it takes a span of time to grow on each other. That's OK, too! At the start you may see tail wagging, foot stomping, you might hear growling and screeching, vigorous tooth chatter or grinding, and the pair might box with each other and sound angry. That is because they might be a little unsettled and questioning hierarchy with the presence of a third and unknown degu. As time passes, you may see them begin to ignore each other, looking kind of aloof and intentionally unaware of each other. That is progress . . . at step toward acceptance. Most introductions are less than straight forward. There will be times, even multiple times, when you will take one step forward and then two or three steps back. This is normal. It is part of the journey. It is frustrating, and heart breaking, and you will wonder when it will end, but it is a path worth taking! Once they have decided to bond, they will bond well when allowed the time to fully accept each other and their standing with each other.
A very good indicator that there is mutual appreciation is when you see them setting up their nests next to each other, so that they are sleeping side by side, even though the bars are in the way. When you hear the sweet warbling back and forth through the bars, that also another very good sign. These are really good indications that you can start face to face meetings. That doesn't mean there won't be fighting, but it should be less aggressive (hopefully) and they should be more willing to . . . fight nice. LOL! Because they will still need to settle between them who is dominant goo in their grouping. This will require fighting, but hopefully it is more controlled or moderate, and not all out war.
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Post by moletteuk on Oct 24, 2019 9:50:46 GMT
I'm very sorry for the loss of Buck.
I think it's going to be difficult doing introductions without one person being with them all the time to be in charge of the introduction. Generally, a lot of observation and time are required for a successful outcome.
How much of the time is your partner away from them? Will you be coming back to the UK after a time?
I agree with Deguconvert's advice to give yourself and Bolt some time, they all react differently to grief and to being on their own and your emotions will be supercharged at the moment making it difficult to see clearly.
I can go through some of your options and comment on them:
A single adult male is a reasonable option, but your circumstances mean that there would probably be a prolonged period of side by side, and they would probably need a lot of observation to know they were both safe. Anything can happen with intros though, you could get lucky and have them go together fairly easily, or you could get unlucky and you end up with two unhappy singles side by side for a long time.
I wouldn't recommend two degus under 18 months because with hormones running riot there is often scrapping if not fighting while they do their growing up. You don't want an older degu caught up in a lot of aggression or excessive boisterous behaviour. A pair of 18 month or preferably a bit older degus would be an option, but as you say, they may not be that interested in Bolt. Usually a single will benefit from being side by side with other degus as opposed to not having other degus around at all, but it can be sad and frustrating for their keeper.
Upsetting as it would be, it might be worth placing an advert on here explaining your situation and looking for a home for Bolt in the hope that a regular, trusted forum member may be looking for an older single male. There wouldn't be any obligation and nothing might come of it, it's entirely up to you. There are a couple of decent rescues in the Nottingham area that could be an option, Notts Nibblers and another one that I think are on our adoption board, you could speak to them about possible matches and rehoming (in either direction).
It's OK to keep him as a solo for a little while to see how he gets on and figure out your options. It's unlikely to be acceptable long term since he isn't that old and with him being more or less alone from humans for significant periods.
Females are only very rarely sterilised for medical reasons, you are unlikely to find one, I can only think of maybe two in 9 years experience on the forum. You probably have worked out that Bolt is also a bit old to be neutered, depending on his health you could discuss it with a vet if you have a really good vet and were interested.
He couldn't live with a different animal so it's unlikely to be of much benefit to him.
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