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Post by degumummy137 on May 13, 2019 19:50:12 GMT
Anyone have a general idea of the calcium:phosphorous content of this mix? My new girls won’t touch pellets; they only like natural textured foods! I’m sure this is good in a lot of ways, but reading up on dental disease with Boris has scared me about not being able to measure how much calcium they’re getting.
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Post by moletteuk on May 15, 2019 18:20:04 GMT
The calcium:phosphorus will be fine in the herbs and flowers but not in the carrots, grass, beetroot pillows, roots and berries. So, it depends on the ration of the herbs and flowers to the other things. It's fine to feed a certain amount, but I'm not sure I would want to feed a lot of it. You would need to contact Hugro for exact figures, if they have them.
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Post by degumummy137 on May 15, 2019 18:38:11 GMT
Hmm, okay :/ If I fed mostly the flowers and herbs from the mix and added a degu seed mix which IS worked out correctly, do you think this would work out about right? If not, any alternative suggestions? Since they’re not eating pellets they’re only eating hay, seeds and dried dandelion atm.
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Post by deguconvert on May 15, 2019 20:13:44 GMT
Have you seen this thread . . . deguworld.proboards.com/thread/21261/feed-degus . . . which features lists of what is fed to their degus by a few of our members? These are a really excellent example of what is being used by some, and could give you some ideas of what to look for. |
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Post by degumummy137 on May 16, 2019 14:42:48 GMT
The calcium:phosphorus will be fine in the herbs and flowers but not in the carrots, grass, beetroot pillows, roots and berries. So, it depends on the ration of the herbs and flowers to the other things. It's fine to feed a certain amount, but I'm not sure I would want to feed a lot of it. You would need to contact Hugro for exact figures, if they have them. Do you think the mix would be suitable if I removed the carrot, beetroot and berries? |
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Post by deguconvert on May 16, 2019 17:31:58 GMT
Removing those will help . . . but you would be really boosting their nutritional intake if you would to add a couple more forage type food options to their diet, especially if they are refusing to eat pellets. A diverse diet is better. Are other options difficult to come by for you?
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Post by savvy on May 16, 2019 17:38:45 GMT
Ratrations do a wide range of forage that you can mix yourself such as blackberry leaf, raspberry leaf, dandelion, blossoms, chives, parsley, plantain....the list goes on. These can work out cheaper than pre mixes and you can control what's in it. If you give them a ring, I'm sure they'll be able to tell you what they have, or alternatively look at the list of edible plants deguworld.proboards.com/thread/15335/edible-plants-list and compare it to their website based on what you know they'll eat. |
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Post by degumummy137 on May 16, 2019 19:53:30 GMT
Removing those will help . . . but you would be really boosting their nutritional intake if you would to add a couple more forage type food options to their diet, especially if they are refusing to eat pellets. A diverse diet is better. Are other options difficult to come by for you? What type of forage are they missing? I don’t really know what vitamins are in what! |
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Post by degumummy137 on May 16, 2019 19:55:11 GMT
Removing those will help . . . but you would be really boosting their nutritional intake if you would to add a couple more forage type food options to their diet, especially if they are refusing to eat pellets. A diverse diet is better. Are other options difficult to come by for you? Just to add I do have a seed mix for them as well that seems to cover a lot of the recommended seed list, but plants and herbs are where I fall short! |
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Post by savvy on May 16, 2019 20:09:06 GMT
Just to start you off, my basic ratrations forage order is this;
Cut dandelion
Parsley stalks
Apple leaves
Raspberry leaf
Chopped plantain
Cut blackberry leaf
Chopped chives
Herb garden Blossom mix
Peppermint
Rose petals
Occasionally I'll add in dandelion flowers, sunflowers, red clover, but these are only very occasionally.
They also have hansemanns SAB mix, degu Ratatouille and paradise mix, together two types of hay.
Reading this, I think I have very spoiled degus, lol.
Edit; oh and they also have their degu seed mix.
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Post by degumummy137 on May 17, 2019 7:13:23 GMT
Just to start you off, my basic ratrations forage order is this; Cut dandelion Parsley stalks Apple leaves Raspberry leaf Chopped plantain Cut blackberry leaf Chopped chives Herb garden Blossom mix Peppermint Rose petals Occasionally I'll add in dandelion flowers, sunflowers, red clover, but these are only very occasionally. They also have hansemanns SAB mix, degu Ratatouille and paradise mix, together two types of hay. Reading this, I think I have very spoiled degus, lol. Edit; oh and they also have their degu seed mix. Thanks, this is useful! Four of those items are definitely covered in the mix, then we have apple leaves, another herb (can’t remember which one!), pea flakes, rice puffs, the degu seed mix, rosehips, and hay with marigold and dandelion. I also collect dandelion leaves on the way home this time of year to share amongst the animals. So just add some kind of blossom or herb mix for variation? |
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Post by savvy on May 17, 2019 8:08:17 GMT
You could, but you'll find that the bags of mix won't last long, maybe a week at most. The flaked peas, rosehips and puffed rice should only be used as a treat or training aid, not part of their main diet. Plus you'll have to take most of the carrot out as well because of the sugar content. You'll find it gets expensive with the small bags which is why I switched to hansemanns as I could buy 5kg bags of a very similar product.
An ideal diet should have 22 different plants/flowers so they get as much of what they need as they can plus hay and seeds.
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Post by moletteuk on May 17, 2019 9:45:00 GMT
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Post by degumummy137 on May 17, 2019 11:29:28 GMT
I’ve looked at most of the threads in diet; I’m just trying to get my head around it. I’ve tried them on four different ones - checked against the grid on here for calcium:phosphorous levels. One will eat one or two but not enough, one won’t touch any of them.
I’ve never really heard of degus needing either of those; is there no way of them getting it from their diet?
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Post by degumummy137 on May 17, 2019 11:30:09 GMT
The rose hips, rice and pea flakes are treats - I just don’t want to discount them from nutrition intake
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Post by moletteuk on May 17, 2019 12:28:00 GMT
Feeding 100% natural is quite a commitment. I would advise you to keep offering some pellets, they may come around to them. Do you mean you haven't heard about the vitamin D requirement? This is crucial to a natural diet because vitamin D is only available in trace amounts in natural food. Mammals produce their own vitamin d through synthesis from UV light, this cannot happen in captivity because double glazing eliminates nearly all UV light. Not enough is known about supplementing vitamin D for us to be able to tell you exactly what to do, you have to decide for yourself. Some info here: deguworld.proboards.com/thread/19147/interesting-page-on-providing-light?page=1forum.degus-international-community.org/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=833 |
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Post by degumummy137 on May 17, 2019 14:13:03 GMT
You could, but you'll find that the bags of mix won't last long, maybe a week at most. The flaked peas, rosehips and puffed rice should only be used as a treat or training aid, not part of their main diet. Plus you'll have to take most of the carrot out as well because of the sugar content. You'll find it gets expensive with the small bags which is why I switched to hansemanns as I could buy 5kg bags of a very similar product. An ideal diet should have 22 different plants/flowers so they get as much of what they need as they can plus hay and seeds. Parsley J artichoke Birch leaves Dill stalks Meadow grass Plaintain Marigold Peppermint stalks Echinacea Chamomile flowers Apple leaves Basil Raspberry leaves Herb garden Blossom mix Chopped chives Rose petals Degu daily Seed mix Timothy hay Meadow hay with dandelion and marigold This would be the composition if I bought everything I’m thinking of getting (unless their pellet intake increases in the next week). I’ll look on the site you recommended above as well, but I can’t really afford to buy absolutely tonnes at once, nor do I have the storage space, and I’m worried about having to pay delivery to two different places since I get almost everything for my other animals from ratrations (minus rabbit pellets, which I buy locally). My big question is, ignoring efficiency, are there any glaring concerns? Anything that needs to go or anything that needs adding? Please could someone also point me to a vitamin D supplement if they need this as well? There’s nothing on amazon and the ones on ratrations don’t look like the right type of thing (that’s where I get Charlie’s from). |
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Post by deguconvert on May 17, 2019 14:15:06 GMT
An area where Vit D deficiency makes itself known in degus is with dental problems. The growth of spurs (long pointy and often wildly twisted finger like growths that pierce the cheeks, tongue, and can close off the throat), roots that grow too long and invade the sinus cavity, eye sockets, and brain, as well as out through the lower jaw, are an increasing occurrence in the domesticated degu world. We have a growing number of owners that supplement their degus with UV lighting and Vit D drops, and these have made a huge improvement in the dental health of their degus. While it hasn't been much commented on, I will venture to say that these have likely also increased the immune function in these degus as well, as Vit D is known to play a vital part in immune function in other species. No, it isn't widely talked about, but it is talked about here, and for good reason. It is a significant part of keeping healthy degus in living conditions where direct, unfiltered sunlight is virtually non-existent. The Vit D drops used by many here are the same are used for human babies. You can find them at a chemists (we call them a pharmacy or drugstore here . . . so not completely certain I have used the right word.). Have a look at this page . . . deguworld.proboards.com/thread/21967/guide-degu-dental-health . . . the last things covered are the use of Vit D drops, and this will help you to know more about it, how to use it, and where you are likely to find some. (not store names just types of places.) |
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Post by degumummy137 on May 17, 2019 14:15:30 GMT
I’ll be continuing to persuade them to eat the pellets, but if they’re not really touching them then their existing forage is way too limited! I’m going to mix in the remainder with the natural mix so that they’re an interesting novelty when they are there, and hopefully don’t just get thrown onto the floor!
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Post by degumummy137 on May 17, 2019 14:20:14 GMT
An area where Vit D deficiency makes itself known in degus is with dental problems. The growth of spurs (long pointy and often wildly twisted finger like growths that pierce the cheeks, tongue, and can close off the throat), roots that grow too long and invade the sinus cavity, eye sockets, and brain, as well as out through the lower jaw, are an increasing occurrence in the domesticated degu world. We have a growing number of owners that supplement their degus with UV lighting and Vit D drops, and these have made a huge improvement in the dental health of their degus. While it hasn't been much commented on, I will venture to say that these have likely also increased the immune function in these degus as well, as Vit D is known to play a vital part in immune function in other species. No, it isn't widely talked about, but it is talked about here, and for good reason. It is a significant part of keeping healthy degus in living conditions where direct, unfiltered sunlight is virtually non-existent. I really don’t want to go through that again with any of these - where can I get supplements? Their set up isn’t one where a UV lamp could be used. Free roam would be the only option, but I can’t picture them relaxing under a light during outs! |
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