Chin bonding - Gizmo, Benji, and Derek

[ntg]

Picked up our latest addition Derek from Forever Friends Small Animal Rescue in Maryport. He's an 8 year old standard grey who seems in excellent health. He's with us on a foster basis to see whether or not there's a possibility of bonding him with Gizmo and Benji who are 4 and 3 years old respectively. He's currently in a cage on the opposite side of the room from the pair while I make sure he's not carrying anything but I initially set his cage up beside theirs for easier access while putting accessories etc in. Initial signs are somewhat positive (I think), Benji has been making his "I'm interested in this new thing" contact noises and Gizmo has been intently staring at the cage to see what's going on. Going to take it slowly with them and fingers crossed there will be a nice cuddle pile of three chins at the end of it all.

If anyone with chin-bonding experience has any advice for how to proceed then it'll be greatly appreciated.



His cage will need some modding to replace a few things like the plastic shelf as well.

[deguconvert]

Isn't he lovely!! I love the slope of his forehead, and those huge liquid eyes!

[randomname]

I'm really looking forward to seeing how this goes as I've never done chin bonding.

Our 3 live side by side (small gap between cages so they can't mate - not sure if a 13yr old chin can get pregnant, but not risking it!) and they communicate a lot & act like a pack (i.e they all startle at go to the same area of the cages when there's a loud noise, if one alarm barks they all get together to comfort him - weirdly Maggie doesn't alarm bark ever)
It only took a few weeks to go from across the room to side by side so I think you'll have them interacting really quickly. Unless the fact they're all male makes a difference? Mind, I thought my boys would fight between themselves when I bought Maggie in but they didn't, so I don't know if sex means anything.
I know for rabbits that males are often hardest to bond, wonder if that's the same for chins?
Anyone know what is peak hormone time for boy chins? Bet Darth would know.

I find when I used to see intent staring (usually Sir Ian McKellen) it ends with a temper tantrum or a bit of aggression, so I'd watch that. It could give you a clue about how dominant their personalities are. I found Sir Ian to be the less dominant one, he's the guy on watch while Sir Patrick Stewart snoozes unconcerned. That translated as Sir Ian being the first to investigate & the first to attack even though he's not as dominant. Sir Patrick just pootles around doing his thing, but he shoves Sir Ian out of the way for food & baths etc & is always in charge of what they're doing. He's calmer because he knows he's boss - he's not the one to watch out for initially, Sir Ian is always the one who starts it.

I love Derek already. His fur looks lovely & smooth. I have a soft spot for his colouring as our Dave & now Maggie were very similar looking. Derek is a top notch name, definitely something I'd pick (have made a promise to myself our next intake will be named Keith lol)

Can't wait to see how you get on & what lessons we can learn, good luck

[ntg]

He is definitely a cute but cheeky little boy who wants nothing more than to be out of the cage

Gizmo stopped his staring after the first night so they seem ok with him in general terms so far, he's still a little shy and only ventured out last night while I was putting forage out for them all but then sat there quite happily eating while I was faffing on with the other two.

Had a mad bathroom cleaning frenzy this morning so undecided as to ehether I'm going to let G&B out followed by Derek tonight so he can get used to their scents being around a little or whether to give him his first bathroom experience while it's unscented.

@random, from what I've heard it's the girls which are more territorial... Hoping that will go in my favour as Benji is the dominant one of the pair and they do have the odd kerfuffle over things.





And Benji said no to photos last night

[moletteuk]

So glad you got him home and it's going well I hope you waved at me as you came nearby, um, even though I wasn't there! It popped into my head that he is Derek as in Derek McDreamy Shepherd off Grey's Anatomy, he's certainly cute enough!

[ntg]

I was waving at every car (and motorbike) I drove past just incase I'll probably be back in the area at some point over the summer so we might get that tea and chat eventually

As for the name I was thinking along the same lines of famous Derek's and could only come up with Derek Shepherd, Derek Zoolander, and one of the trains from Thomas the Tank Engine... One of my grandad's was Derek though so maybe its a fitting tribute of that instead

[moletteuk]

LOL! Yes, let me know if you are coming this way Maybe time will tell which Derek he might be?

[ntg]

Been a long time since I updated this! The boys are still all alongside each other at the moment but I'm concerned that Benji is a little too obsessed with him. He'll spend most his time running along the short edge of the cage and jumping between the two levels so that he can see Derek wherever he's gone. He will also ping the bars and try and grab Derek through them with his front paws while making contact noises (I'll upload a video later).

Derek on the other hand spends most his time with his back to him, dangling his tail out the cage as a lure (Liam swears he sometimes sees him waving it to taunt Benji as he's trying to grab at it). He sometimes goes into a fit of jumping at the side of the cage and tail wagging as well so my hopes aren't up thinking from a degu perspective.

Gizmo on the other hand practically ignores him and vice versa I think Benji' s obsession is causing some conflict between them though as I've noticed a few fur slips in their cage recently and it seems that the fur is localised to the pophole that Benji is jumping levels through to find Derek.

Part of me is wondering if I might have to just bite the bullet and try them in neutral territory to see what their reaction is and figure out where we go from there...

[deguconvert]

Hmmm . . . wish I knew what to advise! What you describe does sound like there is agitation, but no idea if it is productive or limiting. Face to face, as you say, may be the way you have to go in order to determine that.

[moletteuk]

Could you do a neutral territory meet but still with mesh between them? depending on how risky chin intros can be? I suppose you would only find out what the agitation is about without the mesh Not that I know about chins but it's not sounding great.

[ntg]

To be honest, Benji gets aggressive when there's a barrier in the way so the cage being side by side might be making things worse. When we have them out in the bathroom he sometimes has a go at Gizmo if there's a barrier like the travel box between them where they can only get noses through.

I just really don't understand the fact that some of their interactions seem positive and curious and then the next second they can sound and look aggravated.

[savvy]

Could he be getting annoyed because there's a barrier and he wants it removed? Just a thought.

[moletteuk]

Sounds like there is only one way to proceed, then!

[ntg]

Yep, it's just working my nerve up to doing it! You can easily put a colander over a degu if things get too heated but I'm guessing chins might be a bit more awkward. They're definitely faster

[savvy]

Gonna need a bigger colander, lol.

[moletteuk]

Small laundry basket? Stiff and substantial card for wrangling in the style of moving seals?

[deguconvert]

Butterfly net??

[ntg]

I have one of those collapsible plastic storage baskets I could use as long as the handles aren't big enough for them to squeeze out of... You'd be shocked and a little horrified at what these critters can manage to fit through since they're mostly fur

I'm feeling a little bit more hopeful for intros since the past few days I've come in on the morning to find Benji or Gizmo or both snoozing on the shelf closest to Derek with him snoozing with his back to them too.

Little terrors woke me up at 4am again with Benji jumping against the cage and up and down between levels with Derek mirroring him. Normally I would smell them spraying as a territorial thing, but this time there was no musk and Benji seemed relaxed when he went to see Gizmo. Admittedly, Gizmo was a little annoyed but I think he just doesn't like it when Benji gets worked up as he gets boisterous with him. I'm starting to wonder if Benji and Derek have decided to be friends and are just playing as best as they can between cages. 🤔

[deguconvert]

Wouldn't that be lovely, it they have decided to be friends!! Any idea what Gizmo thinks?

[ntg]

Gizmo has never really seemed that bothered by him at all and is relaxed when he's next to him so I'm hoping it's a good sign. Hard to say until we try face to face though!