Malo in chinchillas - the x-rays may be disturbing to some

[darthchinchi]

So these are the x-rays of my Speedy who was euthanised today.

Back story:
A while back she suddently had a swelling in the right side of her face. She looked like a rat with the skin swelling out past her nose. So I went to the Vet in the middel of the night, but when they finally had the time for her, the swelling had gone down, and she looked okay.
So we were okay for a while, with the swelling showing from time to time, but not as bad. Af some point i noticed something off with her teeth, but didn't want her to go under because of kits still suckeling. When I finally got her to the Vet, she had cut the inside of her cheeks and they were a bit infected. We agreed om trying to give her 6 months before her next checkup, as I'm not a fan of having to file down teeth every 3 months, as most chinchillas take very poorly to anaesthesia even though she took it very well. About a month ago I got the reminder of her needing the checkup, but didn't really have the time. Yesterday I got a text about it again, and I called them straight away as she was showing signs of not being well. I was also scared she might be pregnant again...
This time around they needed to get x-rays done. Nobody really knows why they didn't do them before, but they didn't.
So when I gave her to the Vet, I told them they needed go put her down if it was the roots, but that she also might be pregnant.
Om the pictures below you can see her teeth. The teeth themselves are elongated, but the roots are also going trough her lower jaw and are on their way up trough the upper jaw as well.
It was far worse on the right side.
I thing something either got stuck or poked a hole in her mouth on the right side, at some point, causing the swelling. This in turn caused her not to chew correctly, thus causing the teeth to grow in an odd manor. Even though they were filed down, the wrong chewing had become cronic.
It is so har to say why roots become elongated. Somwtimes it may start with the roots, but it can start with the teeth as well, and somwtimes the roots will stop growing if the teeth are treated.

Anyhow, they checked and could see a kit in her as well (last picture). I feel so bad for saying they should put it down as well. It might have been about half way trough, so we could have tried to save it via filing down Speedys teeth, and giving her painmeds until her duedate. Problem was, she already had some anaesthesia, and there is no way of knowing how it was effecting the kit. Same with long term pain meds... Don't know how it would affect the kit. And then I would have to find a foster for the kit, as I do not believe in bottlefeeding animals (I can elaborate if anyone is interested), and IF this is genetic (I do not think so, but you never know), we might have to put it down at a young age anyway.

Horrible, horrible situation... Should have gotten the male neutered :/

And now my little girl (she was about 5 years) has been donated and is going to help some vets learn about chinchillas in the future.
I found out it was possible to donate a few years back, so now that's what I'm doing every time I have to euthsnize and no autopsy is needed.

As mentioned else where, Vet was very hapoy/supportive of the information work I've been doing. Told her I collect chinchilla craniums with teeth problems to show to people. She can only do it one on one, so she sent me the x-rays to do the same with them...

I feel so horrible. Haven't really been crying about it, but this post did the trick. Thank you for listening. I just hope these types of experiences can help others out there. I'm not against filing down teeth as such, it's just that here I see A LOT of people trying to do it and using painmeds when they should put the animal down. If it's the roots, people really need to think carefully about keeping them alive, because when og starts to show again, they have been in pain for a while. I've seen chinchillas with no possible way of eating, picking up pellets, looking like they were eating, when actually they weren't. Or eagerly taking treats...

[ntg]

I'm so sorry darth! If it helps at all, I think you made the right decision regarding the pup as there probably is some genetic factor involved in the formation of dental disease, not to mention, prolonging the suffering of an animal just so that they can give birth doesn't sit right with me.

I hope the vets can learn something from her. Out of curiosity, are any of the fur farms carrying out genetic studies of their animals? I'm guessing they don't keep their animals alive long enough for malo to be a severe issue in most cases but, if somewhere could find the funding then maybe it would be possible to get them to donate the skulls and some genetic material, if there is evidence of the start of malo in some of the animals then it should be possible to do a study into the genetic aspects of early-onset malo?

[darthchinchi]

There are several forms of malo. Some are gentic, some are not. And they hit different areas of the mouth. But they are all referred to as malo
Basically they can be down to:
Genetics
Wrong diet
Injury
Age

And maybe a combination of the above. I have had some in a few animals, but as a rule of thumb it shows up within the first couple of years if it is genetic. With her history, I highly doubht it's genetic, but it's near impossible to test either way. People who got kits from her have been informed.

As for the farmes, they do actually see it. It can show even before the age og 1 and a good male or female can be in breeding for about 5 years, and if it shows within this timeframe, it can potentially hurt the entire farm as high quality good producing animals must be taken out of breeding. I do believe the stop lines if they see problemes reoccuring and they put down animals that show signs of malo.
It's just a question of me asking them if I can have the heads of the sick ones they skin, and I usually get them, so they are fairly easy to come by.
In the US they have done some genetic testing and there is a form it is possible to test for.

[ntg]

Oh I doubt it would be a single gene, more a series but if a pattern could be developed tgen it might be possible to find a link of the biggest risks in developing the forms of malo in the first place. In my mind diet and age forms of malo are likely to be linked to some form of predisposition from their genetics, whether it relates to something like calcium intake/utilisation, skull shape, or a vast number of genes that have been indicated in tooth malformation in other species.

My reasoning for the underlying genetics comes down to, you can have a group of animals in the exact same environment, even when fed pellets and hay to maintain as much consistency as possible, yet only one might develop dental disease of some description where the others are okay. The greatest variation in this case is likely to be genetics since even siblings can potentially have 0-100% genetic identity to each other (although from what I remember it is more commonly 25-75%) depending on how the genetic material has split during meiosis.

I can understand the fur farms would lose a lot from having issues with it within their herds. My thought is with the skulls is, with scans you can see both the degree and form of malo (particularly root overgrowth), and also take measurements of various areas of the skull that might be useful, which combined with genetic studies would hopefully give a robust set of measurements that may give a clue as to what the biggest risk factors are in the development/predisposition.

[darthchinchi]

I did a bit of googeling and found some paper on it (looked for one I can't find anymore), and a couple of them mentioned died as a major problem in the development of malo, with the diet being too low in fiber and one saying it is needed to give the animals a diet that simulates the wild diet more.

One of the things that make me think it may be more of a nutrition thing it's the fact that one of the primary ways to tell of a feed is good, is by looking at the fur. So in reality there is no research into what they need in the long run. I also find it odd that the diatery needs are the same though out their lives. And last but not least, they do not live to the same age in the wild, so if is hard to say if teeth issues at 15 is genetic or not as most individuals wouldn't reach that age in the wild anyway... So maybe they do experience problems with their teeth in the wild to, but they get picked up by predatores.

[deguconvert]

I am so so sorry, Darth!!

[natnat899]

Sorry for your loss darthchinchi x

It’s interesting to know there is a donation option, maybe if this was a wider known choice, more people would do it and therefore more would be known about this condition.

[ntg]

Darth, have you looked at our degu nutrition section at all? Just what you say is very similar to what we see in degus that diet can make a huge difference in dental disease, and even really slow the progression of it. Dietary fibre does play a role, with fresh being preferred where possible, but calcium:phosphorous and vitamin D seem to play a big part too.

[darthchinchi]

Sept 27, 2018 21:20:24 GMT ntg said:

Darth, have you looked at our degu nutrition section at all? Just what you say is very similar to what we see in degus that diet can make a huge difference in dental disease, and even really slow the progression of it. Dietary fibre does play a role, with fresh being preferred where possible, but calcium:phosphorous and vitamin D seem to play a big part too.

Yes, have been looking at it
A breeder I know had a chinchilla with teeth problems and it stopped when she did something about the diet (can't remember what), so that's one of the reasons for men to think diet plays a big role

[yasmin]

Sincerest condolences, darthchinchi.