2 degus had a bad fight, need some advice

[savvy]

You need to keep them separate while they have injuries so they can heal. Also get both of them to the vet tomorrow even if he looks better. Degus are masters at hiding injuries and after an FBOD there could be ones you've not been able to see.

If they are in a new cage they will be trying to sort out who has control over it so there will be some fighting.

Oh and please remove the sand bath if there are open wounds as the sand can get in and cause an infection.

Sorry to be brief but I am trying to reply before my battery goes flat.

[savvy]

Degus can have fallings out and then be best buds again a few days later, so don't worry too much. Solitary confinement can help tempers cool while the wounds heal.

Try them together but supervised after the vet check if they look like they'll be OK and there are no injuries which necessitate separation. But keep a spray bottle with water in, and a towel handy for a quick intervention if needed. Degus bites can really hurt!

I think previous fighting was probably down to the p@h cage they were living in before as too cramped a territory will cause fighting.

Don't forget they they are new to you too so everything has changed. New hooman, new cage, new surroundings, it's bound to increase tensions between them until they settle, but they will settle.

Edit: a few weeks is like moments to a degu, they are ludites! They hate change even when it's good for them, lol, 

[deguconvert]

I don't remember what their ages are?

[claire]

Hi how old are your boys? Might be their age but I suspect it's just all the changes and they just need to sort out hierarchy again.
Also you mentioned you cleaned the cage? My big boy is 2.5 and I still can't clean his wheel or it sets him off and he bullies basil turns out I was over cleaning their cage... now the wheel stinks but they are happy so meh lol.

[savvy]

It could be a combination of everything, the house move, the new cage, the cage cleaning, even the weather. I've noticed that my boys are quite tetchy in this heat.

If everything is OK at the vet and wounds are minor, I'd try them together, but as I said, keep a spray bottle and towel handy.

[savvy]

Keep us informed! ☺

[misscatafer]

That's great news that the injuries are only minor. They are going to want to box it out I'm afraid, but you are spot on on knowing to intervene with injuries or fbod... It's just nerve wracking witnessing that and allowing it to happen!
Don't put yourself down that there has been fighting, we all go through it as owners. A change of environment is bound to trigger unrest. I moved house after owning my pair for a year, they coped perfectly fine with the move however when I started giving them time out they would then bicker and argue for a good 30 mins when they were returned to the cage. Luckily there was no serious fighting, but it was enough to show me they were struggling with the sudden introduction of a new environment. I stopped play time following this and went back to using their familiar play pen, then let them settle in a bit more before giving them free roam again.
As they are still quite new to you I would keep them side by side for now and let them settle in. Are you still waiting for a bigger cage for them?

[savvy]

Needs must, so don't worry too much about the cage split, it's temporary.

It can take them ages to settle down and they do like to go at their own pace, lol. Glad the injuries weren't too bad.

I'd try getting them together again outside of the cage as you'll be able to intervene more quickly than if they're in a cage. They do need to box it out, but don't let it go too far, if you feel it's getting out of hand a quick squirt with water usually sends them scurrying.  In this situation, you have to be top degu.

Things may settle down between them when the weather breaks and the temperature goes back to normal. Tempers can run high in the summer, just imagine wearing a thick fur coat in this heat, lol.

[misscatafer]

Side by side would be more ideal as you are influencing the heirachy at the moment, but I understand it is not easy to split down the middle. I have split up shelving before like this: it is two pieces of chicken wire with a gap between each piece secured to the cage with wire. Looks unsightly but does the job!

[deguconvert]

You could very easily DIY two complete levels into that cage to increase the amount of surface/running area for them. They would LOVE that!!

[claire]

Didn't someone do this recently? My memory is shocking but I swear someone split a cage like that up pretty easily and posted how they did it ect?

[misscatafer]

I would get all the cage improvements done now. If you are creating more space for them it will only help in alleviate the situation, plus then you will have the space to provide them each with a wheel and enough toys etc.

[deguconvert]

Exactly what I was going to say, Misscatafer!! I'll add that whether you make the split in the upper or lower portion, really doesn't matter, because not matter how you do it, someone is going to have less space than the other. The one that is still living in a portion of the cage with a full level and then a half level will not feel the difference much though, and having the side by side space where they can interact will be very important and helpful.

I have a question . . . did the fall out happen after you moved them into the new cage? When you moved them into the new cage, did you put any of their old, dirty, substrate in with them so that all their odors and the signals/information that is contained within their urine was transferred in with them? If not . . . this could well be why they fell out. Entering into a new space means that the information/history contained in their urine/dirty substrate that has continually helped to reinforce their bond was suddenly absent. Our memories are better at holding on to our relationships than are degus, and this absence of familiar odors can create a real problem for them. Because of this we highly recommend that cleaning be done in stages and that old substrate always be sprinkled (a couple of handfuls) over the new clean stuff, just to prevent this kind of thing happening. It doesn't always happen, but it happens often enough to recognised as something that needs to be habitually done on the part of the owner. With that in mind, putting some of the dirty substrate from each others' cage section into others cage section will be helpful in restarting the re-bonding process.

[savvy]

It wouldn't do any harm to switch more of the substrate than a couple of handfuls. Switching the sand does work well too, so please give it a go.

Would it be possible to secure the chicken wire to the outside of the cage at the front, so that you can open the doors? It may mean leaving some sticking out between the doors so you would need to be careful not to cut/scratch yourself on the excess.

[deguconvert]

I think you have great ideas, Kyzzie! You're going great!! I hope you are feeling better and not so terribly overwhelmed by all that is part of living when you are well. It is not easy, and I'm sorry it has been so hard the last while. Many of us understand illness and suffering, and totally support you in your efforts. Sending you hugs!

[misscatafer]

It sounds like you have got everything in hand, you are doing great and I'm sure your guys will return to being best buds soon it seems the cage clean combined with the new cage could have caused the upset. 2 weeks is a very short time in degu world.
I was exactly the same when I was a new owner; I was convinced the cage needed constant cleaning and used to do a big clean weekly. As humans, good hygiene and cleanliness are signs of wellbeing and being well cared for, so we automatically want to provide that for our furries. As I gained experience I realised the importance of leaving scents and that degus deliberately make mess as such in order to feel safe and have some kind of order.
I clean my cage out every 5-6 weeks. The cues for needing to do this is odour and how soiled the substrate is. Obviously I dab up any pools of urine as I see them and wipe down bare surfaces with no substrate on probably 2 weekly. Around the 3-4 week mark I will 'toss up' the substrate to bring the cleaner substrate to the surface whilst still maintaining the scents. I use lots of substrate in my cage, it's nice and deep so I can get maximum usage out of each batch. Hoovering around the cage is another matter though! That happens basically every other day despite most of my cage being covered in perspex to try to stop the poo flicking!
The longer you have them you will work out your own routine cleaning wise as everyone does it differently, but the basics to know is that less cleaning means happier goos.

[claire]

I can't do mine any less than 2 weeks or it causes problems and i can't clean the wheel. It just gets replaced when it's too dirty. The sand bath depends how much stuff is buried in there. They like that clean every few days. I think each group is different and it's trial and error till you get it right

[winic1]

Here, this is how we divided our cage, which is similar to yours. Look down through the pictures, there's one farther down that shows the divider more clearly: deguworld.proboards.com/thread/19781/photos-new-boys

To keep them from being able to bite toes, it's double thick, two layers of wire separated by 1/4-1/2" thick wood trim strips. We built the frame from the wood, then put the wire around it. It's positioned at about the 1/3-1/4 distance from the edge of the cage, the side with the access hole to the lower half of the cage. That way, the one in the lower half can come up and be side by side with the one in the upper half, but the upper goo doesn't lose as much space.

The top of the divider is attached below a shelf. In my cage, we added wooden shelves, so it was easy to attach. We had wire across the top of the divided section as well, to make sure no one chewed through to get down/up. If you don't have the extra shelves in yet, you could just build the divider like a box that fits over the hole and a small section of that shelf, then put something on top like a board or even cardboard to block the view from above, so the lower degu doesn't feel like he's under attack from overhead. The divided section doesn't have to be very tall, one normal shelf-height will do.

We wired the divider to the cage and overhead shelf securely, to make sure that no one pushed it out of place.

And then, because the cage doors split 50-50 when opened, we also put wire over the front side that would be exposed/open on the top half when the second door is opened, so that top degu couldn't jump out when the door was opened for cleaning and access to the divided section. Let me describe it this way--put wire across the second doorway so that the upper half of the cage is still "shut" when that door is opened, EXCEPT for the front of the small divided section so that you can clean it without the top degu escaping. (We block the floor hole when cleaning, so no one comes up and out while we're working.) So, the top half would be accessed through the left door, and the divided off section from the right door as the rest of the opening is covered with wire to keep top degu in.