Christine
Foraging Degu
Degus Polly, Maisie & Rosie
Posts: 95
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Post by Christine on Oct 4, 2018 19:40:02 GMT
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Post by sarahc on Oct 4, 2018 19:42:14 GMT
How civilized my pups all plonked themselves in food bowl 😂
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Post by ntg on Oct 4, 2018 19:50:14 GMT
Aww the first pup is a little Mini Me of Mum aren't they? 😍
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Post by deguconvert on Oct 5, 2018 15:29:31 GMT
What great captures!! Lovely videos!!
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Christine
Foraging Degu
Degus Polly, Maisie & Rosie
Posts: 95
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Post by Christine on Oct 13, 2018 18:00:13 GMT
Just an update and a question. The pups are all doing well, growing and eating plenty. Every evening I let first Polly and Rosie out to play. Then I move them to my converted budgie cage in the kitchen so that I can let Maisie out. If I let Maisie out when the girls are downstairs she gets very agitated and tries to fight. We have tried Maisie out with Polly but that ended up in Polly with a cut in her ear. Whilst Maisie is out I open the bottom cage so she can go in there and her scent is also present there. She also gets the chance to use the wheel. At the same time I open the doors upstairs and have been introducing myself to the babies. Maisie shows no interest in the babies at all when she has the chance to go out. The babies will now take food from my hand and just now 2 of them ran along my arm up to my shoulder. I also then shut Maisie downstairs and bring Polly and Rosie in to visit the babies. I have done this a few times now. The first time all 6 babies ran to them and started searching for milk. P and R were a bit startled. But now the babies have learnt that there is no milk. There is a lot of squealing and warbling but it is a bit chaotic with 2 females and 6 babies running in all directions. But everyone is getting to know each other and of course they are in earshot of each other all day anyway. They are now 3 weeks old. I have now decided that Maisie will go with the boys to the breeder. She is still so aggressive to Rosie and sometimes to Polly too and as I now know I have 4 girls I think it makes more sense to keep Polly and Rosie with the 4 girls. I was planning to leave them together until 6-7 weeks and then separating Maisie and the boys and taking them directly to the breeder. But I am wondering if it might be beneficial to split them earlier. I am thinking this because Maisie is not a very attentive mother and I think that once they no longer need milk the girls will learn more degu social skills being with P and R than with Maisie. The boys could then stay with Maisie until the they are at least 6 weeks. Can someone please give me some feedback on this idea. I don't think Maisie will be disturbed at all by having some of her babies with P and R. She may even be more relaxed with just the 2 boys.
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Post by ntg on Oct 13, 2018 18:17:38 GMT
I wouldn't split the pups until 6 weeks at the earliest. What I would suggest is that, if you are insistent on letting Maisie go, to also leave her with either one or two of the female pups and introduce the remaining females to Polly and Rosie if you want to keep some as at least that way nobody is being left on their own.
In the meantime, I don't know if it's wise to let Polly and Rosie in with the pups as there is a risk that the scent may upset Maisie to the point where she attacks them if she's so hellbent on chasing Polly away.
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Christine
Foraging Degu
Degus Polly, Maisie & Rosie
Posts: 95
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Post by Christine on Oct 13, 2018 19:11:57 GMT
Hi ntg. If I split them before 6 weeks Maisie would be with the 2 baby boys so no-one would be alone. I don't think the scent is a problem as the scents are so mixed anyway. Maisie and the babies are in the top half of the cage and the other 2 below but all three have been sharing the whole cage since I got the 2 youngsters in July. Polly and Rosie were separated on the day the babies were born because Maisie was so aggressive towards her sister Rosie. I have not cleaned the top half since the babies were born so Polly and Rosie's scents are still there. I also think that as they are in the top and bottom half of the same cage they can all smell and here each other all the time. When Maisie is out she does not come back to check the babies at all. I have to bribe her with a crock to get her back in. She is only next to the babies when she is feeding them and I think she finds them a bit too much. She is just too young to be a mum and is not enjoying it. Thanks for you input.
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Post by winic1 on Oct 13, 2018 19:20:30 GMT
You do need to wait until the babies are not nursing from her at all before you separate them. Even if you yourself took over hand feeding them some kind of formula, it's not the same as their mother's milk, and you could be jeopardizing their health for the rest of their lives. It's only a few more weeks until they will be weaned and you can safely separate them. Hang in there!
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Post by ntg on Oct 13, 2018 19:23:07 GMT
Hi Christine, just to clarify I meant don't split the pups until 6 weeks at the earliest at all then, when it does come time to split them if you do as you suggest Maisie will be on her own as she won't be able to stay with the boys otherwise inbreeding would occur, which is why I suggested that at least one of the females should remain with her. If you get what I mean? As for the scent thing, you know your degus best and how they are reacting to things. I'm just in the camp of better safe than sorry, particularly with how quickly and unexpectedly they can turn on each other.
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Christine
Foraging Degu
Degus Polly, Maisie & Rosie
Posts: 95
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Post by Christine on Oct 13, 2018 19:41:18 GMT
How late can the boys stay with Maisie. Is it right that the boys become fertile later than the girls?
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Post by ntg on Oct 13, 2018 19:49:43 GMT
Generally, 8 weeks is the maximum but deguconvert will be able to tell you when it's most adviseable as I'm sure I've heard tales of the odd boy being fertile before 8 weeks.
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Christine
Foraging Degu
Degus Polly, Maisie & Rosie
Posts: 95
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Post by Christine on Oct 13, 2018 22:07:09 GMT
ok. But Maisie and the boys are going to the same place and they have to leave before the boys need to be separated from Maisie. I don't have a third cage. I would need one for Polly and Rosie, one for Maisie and one for the boys, with the girls either with Maisie or Polly and Rosie. If I put the girls in with Polly and Rosie they would be a little bit settled there before Maisie and the boys left. It might also give Maisie a bit of a rest and time to gain strength before the stress of a new home. I was not thinking of doing this yet, but when they are no longer feeding from Maisie. They are all eating quite a lot of solids now and I have seen 2 of them drinking from the water bottle.
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Post by deguconvert on Oct 14, 2018 14:05:24 GMT
I think that at five weeks you could put the female pups in with Polly and Rosie, as they will take up and continue with the degu culture education . . . but I get what NTG is saying. When you re-home Maisie with the breeder . . . what is Maisie's lot going to be? Just because she is going to the same place, doesn't ensure that she will have companions in her cage. Is she going to become a breeding female for the breeder, or will she be allowed to live her life without more litters? Will she be left alone in a cage, or will she be allowed other female companions? If, and I truly hope, she will be allowed female companions, will the breeder be trying to introduce her to females she already has, or is it best that you keep a female pup or two with her? Maisie seems to be exhibiting a lot of stress, for sure, and I think NTG and I are thinking that if she has a daughter or two with her in this transition, it might make things easier on her. Do you have any ideas as to the answers for the above questions?
As for the boys needing to be in their new home by the time they are of an age when they must be separated from females, I would say that week 7 is the latest you should go to. My boy that liberally spread his sperm about, did so some time through the ages 8 - 10 weeks, but I feel pretty sure he was in his eighth week.
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Christine
Foraging Degu
Degus Polly, Maisie & Rosie
Posts: 95
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Post by Christine on Oct 14, 2018 14:47:06 GMT
Good questions. I will try to find out. The person taking them replies to my facebook post looking for homes for the boys. She is the only registered degu breeder in Finland. know she has recently imported some degus for fresh blood and assume that is also why she is interested in mine. When it became clear that it might be a problem to get Maisie back with the other 2, I asked if she would be able to take her too. I have been considering letting one of the baby girls go with Maisie. There are too dark ones which I can't tell apart. If one of those went we would have 5 girls together and all very different looking. MY son protests of course! He says we will be able to tell them apart as they get older and their character shows. He's right of course, but he wants to keep all of them! At the moment it is the 2 boys who are most adventurous and come onto my hand. I am quite sure she would not leave Maisie alone. She is very clear on her website that she will not sell a single degu unless it is joining one left alone and in that case they jump the waiting list as priority. She also insists on a face to face meeting and details of how you intend to house the degus. Now that I am reasonably sure that it will be difficult to put Maisie back with the others I will contact her again and ask what she would do with Maisie.
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Christine
Foraging Degu
Degus Polly, Maisie & Rosie
Posts: 95
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Post by Christine on Oct 20, 2018 18:43:38 GMT
The babies are 4 weeks old today and just had there first playtime outside the cage. The last few days i have had to catch them quickly as they try to follow mum when she goes out, so today I decided to just let them go with her. They all tested the sand bath and had a good explore of the whole room. There was a lot of squeaking and running. Poor Maisie tried to was running round in circles. I think she was thinking that hey this is meant to be her baby free time. Then Maisie went in to enjoy her crock in peace and we let Rosie and Polly out with the babies. It went very well although a bit chaotic with babies running to hide under my legs when they got a bit overwhelmed. Was surprisingly easy to catch the babies to return to the cage, but they were straight at the door to come out again. I haven't seen Maisie feeding them for a couple of days now and I have noticed they are all drinking water. I also cleaned their cage this morning. It was getting a bit smelly after 4 weeks! I have decided to try them with Carefresh. I currently use wood shavings but Maisie in particular is kicking it all over the floor. I am thinking this could be a problem if I end up with 6 girls. The Carefresh is a bit expensive. It is only available here via internet, but the delivery is free if I spend more so if I like it this can reduce the price a bit.
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Post by goolover on Oct 20, 2018 22:19:24 GMT
Hi christine,
I have been reading through your thread and Oh my, you have had a time and been landed in hot water but it seems you have took it all in your stride and coped very well. I was in a similar position abit over 2 and a half years ago and had a full house of goos and it was very overwhelming. We had 2 litters, first 5 pups and then 8 pups so know how chaotic it can be with loads of babies running around and 3 colonies to give play time to, but pleased to say it all worked out just fine. Degu's are amazing mums as you will now know on how the little ones are progressing. At 4 weeks old this is such a crucial time of their development as they are copying mum and learning from her and each other. Also having you to interact with will make them trust humans. At 4 weeks they will not take milk from Mum but obviously still need her for physical/emotional love and support etc. I have looked at your photo's which is a mistake as I get baby goo broody, they are adorable. It is funny to watch mum as the pups get bigger and go further afield, you have or will see her panic but then she will realise they are now out of her control and she will settle and relax. I would just like to say that although its a quick fix to let that breeder have some pups and Maisie it is so important to ensure they are going to be treated right. I think breeders are always in it for the money and will mate whoever they can and not care about the health and happiness of the degu. She probably doesn't know much either about how to care for them and what they need. If she did she would not breed them. I realise you are in a different country and may not have the resources to ensure they get a lovely home with loving owners so you may not have a lot of choice, it is a very hard situation to be in. I hope it all works out x
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Christine
Foraging Degu
Degus Polly, Maisie & Rosie
Posts: 95
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Post by Christine on Oct 21, 2018 11:45:23 GMT
Hi Goolover, yes it has been an amazing experience with the pups. Luckily I am a zoo keeper by profession so have plenty of experience with animals, although not with degus. The breeder they are going to approached me herself, but she was actually the person recommended to me when I was looking for two youngsters myself. She has a very good website with a strong emphasis on how important it is to research and plan before you start with degus. She does not sell to anyone who has not come to meet her and shown that they understand the needs of degus. Degus are not very common in Finland and she is one of a small group who actually do know how to care for them. I would be uncomfortable letting them go to someone who has never keep degus before. She also has a completely unrelated job and the degu, gerbil and rabbit breeding is her hobby which she does for her own interest and pleasure. I assume she covers her cost , but money is not her motivation. She is very active in the Finnish degu facebook community and her name was already familiar to me as someone offering advice to others. So I am actually content for them to go to her and interested to see her set up when I deliver them. This morning Maisie lost her crock to one of the babies. She had been out for a small run and I showed the crock to tempt her back in. I put it on the shelf inside the cage because she tends to try and grab it and run back out. She was too slow one brave little boy grabbed it and ran and his inside the log where Maisie cannot fit. Ir was so funny, but I took pity on Maisie and gave her another.
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Post by goolover on Oct 21, 2018 12:18:37 GMT
lol what a cheeky chap and yes crocs are like the catnip in the degu world so I don't blame him! You could watch them all day couldn't you and never get bored of their antics. I love the way they go off in different directions to explore, then they will meet up, sniff each others mouth, do a bird song warble and little jump in the air happy hops! Sorry on my comments about breeders, I would never intend to offend or make assumptions on the reason people would breed them its just a difference in opinion. A Zookeeper sounds like an amazing job and yeah probably helped you cope alot better with the big surprise you had lol. I much prefer spending my time with animals than humans!
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Christine
Foraging Degu
Degus Polly, Maisie & Rosie
Posts: 95
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Post by Christine on Oct 21, 2018 14:02:23 GMT
Well I think the breeder situation is a bit different here from in England. There are still very few degus here and so not a surplus that need rehoming. I was certain that I did not want to give the boys to the place I got the girls from, although she offered to take all the pups when I told her Maisie was pregnant. She was not at all apologetic and offered no financial help. It is amazing that even at only 4 weeks old they are showing their individual characters. The 2 boys are the brave leaders. I shall miss them. My son wants to keep them, but it would mean two groups and I have seen these last few weeks how much extra time that takes up.
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Post by goolover on Oct 21, 2018 14:27:35 GMT
Yes your right about here, the uk, we have so many that need homes. We adopted 2 goo's from Pets@home and over the years I have seen so many up for adoption its heartbreaking really. I would take them all if I could as I just adore them but even we couldn't cope with the amount we had at one time. I don't blame you for needing to find a place for some of them as they really do need alot of care, love and attention but yes you will feel it when they go 😢
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