New Degu Mommy From The States

[degumom100]

Hello!

My name is Isabel and I recently adopted 4 new degus (all female). I have done a lot of extensive research, however, a lot of the information is contradictory. I see a lot of people sharing that they feed their degus carrots, celery, and broccoli for veggies, and dried sunflower seeds as treats. Though the other half says these types of veggies and seeds are not good for the degus. It is pretty difficult to even pick out food at the pet-store because a lot of sites state that degus should not have molasses and alfalfa, however half the treats/foods that pop up for food recommendation shows the ingredients those two items in them. At this point, I am unsure just what I need to feed my degus without hurting their digestion.

As for cages, I currently am using the rat manor, which the floors and ramps are lined with plain cardboard, so that they do not get bumble-feet. I am working on building a wooden habitat, and I was wondering if anyone has a suggestion on what wood to get that I could pick up at Lowe's or Home Depot?


I want to make sure that they feel right at home, and cared for. Any suggestions would be great. 

[yasmin]

Welcome to the forum Isabel/degumom 100.

A lot of the information out there is contradictory and confusing; on this site we share our experience and try to help make it all clearer.

Please see our Diet and Nutrition section regarding feeding: deguworld.proboards.com/board/24/diet-nutrition

and Cages, Housing and Accessories section for recommendations and examples of constructed habitats: deguworld.proboards.com/board/1/cages-housing-accessories

Have a look around and feel free to post any questions that you may have under the different sections on the site. Many of us have extensive experience with degus and we are pleased to be of help.

Looking forward to hearing more about your degus.

[deguconvert]

Hello and welcome to the forum, Isabel!! It is lovely to meet you!

Ditto to what Yasmin said, and will throw in the plea for photos, because we are just blatantly addicted to each others degus.

[claire]

Pics!!!!! Wrt I mean welcome to forum.

Word of advice... No question is to weird or stupid ever. Ask away

[winic1]

Hi Isabel! I'm in the northeast US, where are you?

Feeding degus here is a little harder than other countries. Because they are so uncommon, you can't trust most of what you read or see recommended in pet stores and online pet food sites. Their business is to sell you stuff, so they make money. They don't know what they're talking about, nor do they really care. They want your $$$. So, ignore what the pet food industry says. They're going by: oh, it's a small furry mammal, like a hamster or guinea pig, so give it the same stuff. Even the vet we had to take one of our degus to, who is an exotics vet and has other clients with degus, gave me their degu information packet, and while it was good in some areas, it was still WRONG on the feeding and snacks.

The feeding section on this site is really, really good. Much research and work went into it. There is one other english-speaking site that might be more intense and complete, however the atmosphere is not exactly tolerant (and I think it pretty much died because of that) so we won't even recommend it. Most others are not as well-researched or up to date (for example, a big one I'm sure you've come across, Degutopia, is now sadly out of date, owner has been very ill for years, so much of their info is no longer correct.) You can trust what you find here, you can question it all you want, no one will be offended and all are happy to help you understand.

For starters, you need to give them unlimited timothy hay. Find a brand that they like, my guys prefer smaller, softer stems in their hay, more grass-like, whereas when we had guinea pigs they preferred the big, hard, coarse stems, so we actually bought two different kinds of hay back then.

Then, while you sort out the rest of the diet, you should find a good pellet. No sugar, no molasses, not too much in the way of grain product. It should be a degu pellet, not chinchilla or guinea pig or anything else. Personally, I use Sun Seed Sunscription Vita Degu Food, have for years, I have to buy it from Amazon as none of the local stores carry it. Keep an eye on the price, it varies widely at times, I stock up when the price is low. But it is not very likely you will find a good degu pellet in your local store, whichever you choose, ordering online is best.

Pretty much ALL of the small animal treats offered in pet stores will be no good for degus, as they are really designed for other animals. You have to read the labels carefully. Many vegetables are too high in sugar to be more than just an occasional treat, and of course, all fruits are, too.

My guys won't touch anything fresh. Current ones won't even eat fresh grass from the yard (previous ones did). I buy dried veggies, choosing from the lists in the feeding section here, online from North Bay Trading Company, www.northbaytrading.com, their products are good, have never had a complaint. Mostly I get air-dried, as freeze-dried stuff is not as solid and the hard chewing is better for their teeth. My style is to mix it all together, and then scatter a small portion across the cage for them to forage for, every other day or so.

I have found that you can get dried herbs and seeds just from Amazon.com now, more and more sources are showing up there. My latest round of seeds is Amazon, brand "Food to Live", very happy with their products, we use them for us as well as the degus. Again, made a mix of a bunch of seeds from the lists in the feeding section here, these I give in a small bowl (one bowl per degu in different parts of the cage, to prevent fighting), on alternating days.

You can also get dried herbs and flowers on Amazon. Just look to make sure they are in big pieces, not little tiny ones like you get in a jar of spices. Got dried dandelion root and burdock root off amazon. Did a big order from a spice company once, the dried flowers were okay, but the herbs weren't, they said the pieces were 1/3-1/2", but no, they were tiny stuff like from a jar of spices in the grocery store. Complained, they said tough luck, don't buy it again if you don't like it. No kidding, won't buy anything from them again (Monterey Bay Spice Co.) I am using it, but there is so much waste because much of it is too tiny for the goos to pick up and eat. (But the cage smells wonderful.) They get a handful of this forage mix every day, or when refill is needed.

If you live where things grow, you can also collect and dry your own stuff, as long as you know for sure that it is never pesticide sprayed or fertilized (or dog-peed, etc), dandelions, clover, etc. There are extensive lists on this site for collecting your own, too.

[moletteuk]

Hi and welcome

Just to address your particular questions, dried or fresh vegetables are fine in small amounts as treats, but you do need to watch out for their sugar content and the fact that most are low in calcium. See our nutrition charts for more info on that: deguworld.proboards.com/thread/15602/vegetable-seed-nut-nutrition-charts

High calcium oil seeds like fennel, dill, nigella, caraway, coriander etc are positive addition to the diet and you easily feed half a teaspoon of a high calcium seed mix every day. Low calcium oil seeds like sunflower, safflower, pumpkin etc should be in small quantities for treats and training.

Molasses and all added sugars should be avoided. We have some info on commercial foods that might help you to figure that out, Versele Laga and Sunseed both do degu specific foods with no sugars deguworld.proboards.com/thread/17365/commercial-food-chart

Alfalfa is fine in moderation, it has high calcium content which is usually a good thing, the only concern is the higher protein content, but that should be OK if you aren't feeding anything else high in protein like peas.

If you can make your way through reading our feeding guide and other sticky threads, you should hopefully be able to put together in your mind the background and reasons why some things are better than others and you should be in a better position to decide on things for yourself.

I think in USA plywood is cost effective for building a wooden cage. I always recommend using something with a melamine facing for the base and shelves so those surfaces are easy to clean and wee-proof. We have a materials guide that you may find useful deguworld.proboards.com/thread/17316/cage-materials

[degumom100]

Apr 16, 2018 3:54:17 GMT yasmin said:

Welcome to the forum Isabel/degumom 100.

A lot of the information out there is contradictory and confusing; on this site we share our experience and try to help make it all clearer.

Please see our Diet and Nutrition section regarding feeding: deguworld.proboards.com/board/24/diet-nutrition

and Cages, Housing and Accessories section for recommendations and examples of constructed habitats: deguworld.proboards.com/board/1/cages-housing-accessories

Have a look around and feel free to post any questions that you may have under the different sections on the site. Many of us have extensive experience with degus and we are pleased to be of help.

Looking forward to hearing more about your degus.

Thank you! This is so much more information than what I had previously found

[degumom100]

Apr 17, 2018 1:35:26 GMT claire said:

Pics!!!!! Wrt I mean welcome to forum.

Word of advice... No question is to weird or stupid ever. Ask away

I will keep that in mind

[degumom100]

Apr 17, 2018 12:31:46 GMT winic1 said:

Hi Isabel! I'm in the northeast US, where are you?

Feeding degus here is a little harder than other countries. Because they are so uncommon, you can't trust most of what you read or see recommended in pet stores and online pet food sites. Their business is to sell you stuff, so they make money. They don't know what they're talking about, nor do they really care. They want your $$$. So, ignore what the pet food industry says. They're going by: oh, it's a small furry mammal, like a hamster or guinea pig, so give it the same stuff. Even the vet we had to take one of our degus to, who is an exotics vet and has other clients with degus, gave me their degu information packet, and while it was good in some areas, it was still WRONG on the feeding and snacks.

The feeding section on this site is really, really good. Much research and work went into it. There is one other english-speaking site that might be more intense and complete, however the atmosphere is not exactly tolerant (and I think it pretty much died because of that) so we won't even recommend it. Most others are not as well-researched or up to date (for example, a big one I'm sure you've come across, Degutopia, is now sadly out of date, owner has been very ill for years, so much of their info is no longer correct.) You can trust what you find here, you can question it all you want, no one will be offended and all are happy to help you understand.

For starters, you need to give them unlimited timothy hay. Find a brand that they like, my guys prefer smaller, softer stems in their hay, more grass-like, whereas when we had guinea pigs they preferred the big, hard, coarse stems, so we actually bought two different kinds of hay back then.

Then, while you sort out the rest of the diet, you should find a good pellet. No sugar, no molasses, not too much in the way of grain product. It should be a degu pellet, not chinchilla or guinea pig or anything else. Personally, I use Sun Seed Sunscription Vita Degu Food, have for years, I have to buy it from Amazon as none of the local stores carry it. Keep an eye on the price, it varies widely at times, I stock up when the price is low. But it is not very likely you will find a good degu pellet in your local store, whichever you choose, ordering online is best.

Pretty much ALL of the small animal treats offered in pet stores will be no good for degus, as they are really designed for other animals. You have to read the labels carefully. Many vegetables are too high in sugar to be more than just an occasional treat, and of course, all fruits are, too.

My guys won't touch anything fresh. Current ones won't even eat fresh grass from the yard (previous ones did). I buy dried veggies, choosing from the lists in the feeding section here, online from North Bay Trading Company, www.northbaytrading.com, their products are good, have never had a complaint. Mostly I get air-dried, as freeze-dried stuff is not as solid and the hard chewing is better for their teeth. My style is to mix it all together, and then scatter a small portion across the cage for them to forage for, every other day or so.

I have found that you can get dried herbs and seeds just from Amazon.com now, more and more sources are showing up there. My latest round of seeds is Amazon, brand "Food to Live", very happy with their products, we use them for us as well as the degus. Again, made a mix of a bunch of seeds from the lists in the feeding section here, these I give in a small bowl (one bowl per degu in different parts of the cage, to prevent fighting), on alternating days.

You can also get dried herbs and flowers on Amazon. Just look to make sure they are in big pieces, not little tiny ones like you get in a jar of spices. Got dried dandelion root and burdock root off amazon. Did a big order from a spice company once, the dried flowers were okay, but the herbs weren't, they said the pieces were 1/3-1/2", but no, they were tiny stuff like from a jar of spices in the grocery store. Complained, they said tough luck, don't buy it again if you don't like it. No kidding, won't buy anything from them again (Monterey Bay Spice Co.) I am using it, but there is so much waste because much of it is too tiny for the goos to pick up and eat. (But the cage smells wonderful.) They get a handful of this forage mix every day, or when refill is needed.

If you live where things grow, you can also collect and dry your own stuff, as long as you know for sure that it is never pesticide sprayed or fertilized (or dog-peed, etc), dandelions, clover, etc. There are extensive lists on this site for collecting your own, too.

I'm up in Washington State, nearby the Seattle area

I discovered pretty quickly that the petstores would be of little help for me. No one near me knew what a degu was. I knew high sugar and molases were definitely not something they can have, and every pellet product I came across had cane molases. I have kept hearing about how little bit of carrot and celery is okay for them, as well as raw seeds. For now, I put 4 tiny cut pieces of one baby carrot spread in their cage as well as very little of the raw sunflower seeds (organic) that I got for them. I found that yam was good for them, and so I also break up tiny pieces of dried yam in their cage for them to forage through. I have a lot of Timothy Hay, and I feel comfortable giving that to them, seeing everyone here, yourself included, has said that is good for them. 

I thought something felt off about degutopia! I'll keep in mind about it not being up to date. I will definitely try the stuff you mentioned you got from Amazon. I want to make sure that my girls are healthy. I am a bit protective when I have animals under my care. If my little dog could speak, he'd tell you that I am an overprotective mommy lol. 

[degumom100]

Apr 17, 2018 15:45:10 GMT moletteuk said:

Hi and welcome

Just to address your particular questions, dried or fresh vegetables are fine in small amounts as treats, but you do need to watch out for their sugar content and the fact that most are low in calcium. See our nutrition charts for more info on that: deguworld.proboards.com/thread/15602/vegetable-seed-nut-nutrition-charts

High calcium oil seeds like fennel, dill, nigella, caraway, coriander etc are positive addition to the diet and you easily feed half a teaspoon of a high calcium seed mix every day. Low calcium oil seeds like sunflower, safflower, pumpkin etc should be in small quantities for treats and training.

Molasses and all added sugars should be avoided. We have some info on commercial foods that might help you to figure that out, Versele Laga and Sunseed both do degu specific foods with no sugars deguworld.proboards.com/thread/17365/commercial-food-chart

Alfalfa is fine in moderation, it has high calcium content which is usually a good thing, the only concern is the higher protein content, but that should be OK if you aren't feeding anything else high in protein like peas.

If you can make your way through reading our feeding guide and other sticky threads, you should hopefully be able to put together in your mind the background and reasons why some things are better than others and you should be in a better position to decide on things for yourself.

I think in USA plywood is cost effective for building a wooden cage. I always recommend using something with a melamine facing for the base and shelves so those surfaces are easy to clean and wee-proof. We have a materials guide that you may find useful deguworld.proboards.com/thread/17316/cage-materials

Thank you for the info! As for the plywood, I figured I would give that a go for their new home. There's just so much info, but seeing the examples folks have here, I am pretty confident now that I can make their new home with more of an idea of what I can or can't use. 

[degumom100]

Thank you for the welcome everyone, and the information you guys provided! I've been looking through the forums, and I think I now have a good idea of what to get my girls for food and for their new habitat home!

A little bit about myself and my girls:
I didn't know about degus until two months ago. I had been researching of different types of pets that would be good for someone like me (I suffer from anxiety/depression due to my PTSD). While I love dogs (I have my little guy back in California with my partners' parents), I myself am not super active, and so a dog, as cute and helpful as they are, would not benefit of having me as their owner. Degus, along with Chinchillas, were brought up as a good pet for those with PTSD, and so my research began, and found myself to be more and more in love with them as I looked at videos and the onflowing information. I didn't realize how hard it was to find degus where I am at, and that was because they aren't commonly known, as everyone had mentioned here in the forums. I also didn't know they were illegal to own in 5 different states, one of which my dog lives at the moment. I had plans to move back the next year or so, but given that I now own my girls, I don't see that happening, and to be honest, I am not troubled by it (as beautiful as California is, I just can't handle the hot weather there). I managed to find a group that had degus for adoption, and after about 2 weeks, this past weekend I picked up the girls, 2 adults and 2 younglins!

I immediately found that distinguishing them is going to be a little hard. So far, one of them has really felt comfortable enough to come and sniff my face, while the other three are still hesitant. My partner has an easier time figuring out who is who. I still am not sure LOL. I want to though. Because I already have names for them: Rachel, Monica, Phoebe, and Becky (in case you didn't realize, the first three names are from "Friends" - I have just recently started watching the show, and I am now addicted to it LOL).

I am looking forward to future conversations here! Below is a photo of one of my girls (the one that likes to come over to my face when the gate is open). They have their own instagram (I prefer to use it to save our journey together) @thedeguladies

Currently, the girls are n the Rat Manor cage. Which, in my opinion, is small for them (couldn't find bigger that was made of metal). If you notice the ramps, they haven't been lined yet. I've been researching what type of strings and material I could use to line them, that are safe in the case that they decide to chew on the ramps. I wanted to use Popsicle sticks, but I am not sure what to use exactly to hold the sticks to the ramp (I don't like the idea of hot glue or using nails/screws to attach them). Everything else, as far as levels goes, is lined with plain cardboard, as I am trying to minimize their chance of getting bumblefeet.

[winic1]

If only the ramps are uncovered, it is very unlikely to cause them bumblefoot.

Hot glue gun glue is not good. Fumes are toxic, glue can't be a whole lot better.
Elmer's glue (which is a pva glue) is safe, but expect it won't work well on the wire mesh of the ramps. You can use string--cotton string is safe. Jute or sisal twine is safe AS LONG AS YOU GET THE RIGHT KIND:  ordinary twine is treated with petroleum products, to make it weatherproof, so it doesn't rot quickly.  This is BAD. (I know this because I also keep birds, and this is a big point among birdkeepers, you must use bird-safe twine and rope for perches, swings, toys.)  So, you must find UNTREATED TWINE.  If it doesn't say so, it most likely is treated, since that is the norm.  If you look on pet sites for "bird-safe" twine, it will be degu safe as well.  You can find untreated twine elsewhere, I just happen to know that some bird supply places carry birdsafe twine and rope which makes it easy to find.

I started with my first two guys in a Rat Manor.  It is small for even just two.  It is good that you are planning to build a bigger cage, be sure to read the guidelines on cage size, and you can also consult with us on your plans.  As the two little ones grow, four adult degus in a Rat Manor will be very crowded, and almost guaranteed to fight.  You can never give degus too much space.  They are essentially ground squirrels, like chipmunks, the need room to RUN!!!

Plywood is good, kiln-dried pine is safe (must be kiln-dried), and hardwoods are safe, Lowes and Home Depot carry solid boards of a variety of woods, when we were doing our cage we used aspen boards.  We have the luxury here in the USA of more types of wood at lower prices than they do in the UK.  The problem with plywood is if they chew it a lot and end up eating the glue between layers.  But you could build the main frame from plywood, and then any shelves where they can get to an edge to chew on from hardwood or kiln-dried pine boards.  You can also just edge any accessible plywood edges with a strip of hardwood so that they chew the hardwood, not the plywood, which also gives you the advantage of being able to easily replace the chewed up strips instead of the whole shelf.

Some people use the melamine-covered shelf boards, so that pee doesn't sink in.  We covered our wooden shelves with stick-on linoleum-type kitchen tiles, cheap and easy to work with.

Particle board and chipboard are NOT GOOD at all.  Too much glue/resin, which is toxic.

Wow, every time I write, I tend to write you a novel.  Very sorry. 

[degumom100]

Apr 18, 2018 2:41:02 GMT winic1 said:

If only the ramps are uncovered, it is very unlikely to cause them bumblefoot.

Hot glue gun glue is not good. Fumes are toxic, glue can't be a whole lot better.
Elmer's glue (which is a pva glue) is safe, but expect it won't work well on the wire mesh of the ramps. You can use string--cotton string is safe. Jute or sisal twine is safe AS LONG AS YOU GET THE RIGHT KIND:

Yeah, I am not a fan of hot glue, and I figured it would be toxic for them. I mean, we wouldn't chew on it, so that's a really good indication that they shouldn't chew on it. 
Not a fan of elmer's either, for that particular reason (short reason: it sucks). 
I have tried to find untreated cotton, and the craft stores nearby me don't have it. I am going to call ahead to stores farther out. I'll give online a try. The thing is, we recently had our mailboxes ripped off and mail stolen (doesn't help that the post office here is incompetent - "not our problem" was their response in regarding the mailman constantly delivering our mail to wrong locations), so I am hesitant on ordering anything online.

[winic1]

Oops, it posted before I was done, so re-opened it and finished, but looks like you saw the beginning part.

Also, what I used to cover the mesh floors and ramps of the Rat Manor when I had one, was pieces of coconut hull matting, the kind of stuff they make the liners for planter baskets from. You can buy it at garden centers, they sell it by the foot off of big rolls. Before you buy it, check to make sure it hasn't been pesticided in any way. It usually doesn't say one way or the other on the tags, so what you do is SMELL IT. Cocomat should just smell like a dusty coconut shell. if it smells like bug spray or anything chemical, don't get it, go somewhere else.

This stuff is cheap, and you can cut it with scissors to fit wherever you need. To keep it on the ramps, take a few small stitches with ordinary cotton thread. I also used to sew small huts with this stuff, then I found I could just buy the basket/pot liners at the dollar store, turn them upside down to make a hut, and cut two doors/windows in it. They will eventually (or quickly) decide the stuff is great for tearing up and fluffing up to make a nest with it. But you can easily just cut more and put it back in place, buy a big piece when you do so you have spare. Flat pieces that haven't been fluffed up too much can be sprayed through with a hose, then left hanging or laying at an angle on something in the sun to dry and reused, if you want.

[winic1]

Our mail sucks here, too, but most stuff from Amazon comes UPS or FedEx (tho FedEx has recently been worse, the guy was "misdelivering" packages and unable to remember where he left them, scanning them "delivered" but then "forgetting to take it out of the truck to the house" and stuff like that--yeah, right, he was stealing the stuff he wanted and dumping the rest all over town).

Like heck the post office isn't responsible for the mailman misdelivering the mail. If your local office won't do anything, you need to report them farther up the line. When our town's mail was so horrible, enough people complained to the state office (this is Connecticut, it's small) that they came down and had a town meeting to discuss it. The crowd was so big it overflowed into the hallway and filled town hall, and the State Postmaster General just got reamed by resident after resident screaming about the problems for over two hours before they had to stop the meeting. Things got better after that. They still suck, but they are better.

[degumom100]

Apr 18, 2018 2:59:46 GMT winic1 said:

Oops, it posted before I was done, so re-opened it and finished, but looks like you saw the beginning part.

Also, what I used to cover the mesh floors and ramps of the Rat Manor when I had one, was pieces of coconut hull matting, the kind of stuff they make the liners for planter baskets from. You can buy it at garden centers, they sell it by the foot off of big rolls. Before you buy it, check to make sure it hasn't been pesticided in any way. It usually doesn't say one way or the other on the tags, so what you do is SMELL IT. Cocomat should just smell like a dusty coconut shell. if it smells like bug spray or anything chemical, don't get it, go somewhere else.

This stuff is cheap, and you can cut it with scissors to fit wherever you need. To keep it on the ramps, take a few small stitches with ordinary cotton thread. I also used to sew small huts with this stuff, then I found I could just buy the basket/pot liners at the dollar store, turn them upside down to make a hut, and cut two doors/windows in it. They will eventually (or quickly) decide the stuff is great for tearing up and fluffing up to make a nest with it. But you can easily just cut more and put it back in place, buy a big piece when you do so you have spare. Flat pieces that haven't been fluffed up too much can be sprayed through with a hose, then left hanging or laying at an angle on something in the sun to dry and reused, if you want.

I like twine, and I think there are some ma and pop shops that sell pet supplies. I can't remember the names though, so Google will have to be my friend again lol.

As for the cage, yeah, I am already working on blue prints and a small 3-D model of the cage, so I can have an idea of how I want it. I figured I would line the shelves with vinyl tiles, and close off the edges with metal bars that I have seen some folks here used to prevent chewing on the vinyl. 

And don't apologize! The info is helpful, and figuring out financially and practicality what I can do or not

As for the mailman, we have tried so hard to get the higher ups to do something about it, but they honestly don't care. That is the one thing I noticed about Washington, is that there is lack of care about others and their property. I am not if it it's because of the drug/substance problem that is occurring here. 

[degumom100]

While I am not believing that is the cause of it, I have noticed that there's been an issue with the surrounding communities. The post office near where I live, constantly smells of weed, and when we had filed a complaint about our mail, the post master said that it was not her problem. Some of my neighbors had gone to the office in Federal Way to complain, and they said that they would do something about it. It's been 3 years, and there is yet to be a solution.

Amazon may be the only service I would use to deliver stuff for my degus, as they do a good job coming to the door, and delivering our stuff.