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Post by moletteuk on Apr 17, 2018 11:17:57 GMT
Great that the vet found something treatable that explains the drooling. I don't think a spur really explains the eyes though, I think that would have to be either tooth roots or a direct eye issue. You might need to insist on the xray next time she needs a trim.
I realise chinchilla diet is contentious, but I just would like to mention that for degus with dental issues we strongly recommend adding a variety of forage to the diet and making sure there is adequate calcium and vitamin D (and not too much phosphorus in the form of grains). Some of our chinchilla keepers on the forum have been adding dried forage carefully to the diet with no problems and one or two people have tried bits of fresh forage too.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2018 11:56:52 GMT
Great that the vet found something treatable that explains the drooling. I don't think a spur really explains the eyes though, I think that would have to be either tooth roots or a direct eye issue. You might need to insist on the xray next time she needs a trim. I realise chinchilla diet is contentious, but I just would like to mention that for degus with dental issues we strongly recommend adding a variety of forage to the diet and making sure there is adequate calcium and vitamin D (and not too much phosphorus in the form of grains). Some of our chinchilla keepers on the forum have been adding dried forage carefully to the diet with no problems and one or two people have tried bits of fresh forage too. Indeed, I feed my chinchillas unlimited forage, unlimited very high quality hay, a small amount of the seed mix that my degus get and I feed science selective nuggets. They really thrive with the forage and they LOVE it. I follow the European standards of chinchilla keeping, there’s some great groups on Facebook but you have to translate it all I am definitely happy to help you with their diet. I agree with Mole about the X-rays. Eye problems are very very unlikely to be linked to a spur. But it’s a good job you found the spur even so. Next time you go I’d really push for the X-rays.
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Post by animalmadfliss on Apr 17, 2018 12:10:41 GMT
I do have the feeling the eyes are a separate thing. The vet insisted a x-ray wasn’t required. Which doesn’t really assure me to be honest. I figured a chinchilla who has not lost weight and is not having trouble eating ie pawing at the mouth and food crumbs when she eats, didn’t have bad teeth but a possible tooth root issue. She felt Pika’s jaw and said it was all ok, which leaves us with the upper tooth roots. I was actually thinking to myself whether there would maybe be a vet elsewhere who could sort her eyes out. But right now I have to get her over this bit, she is very sorry for herself! I might try and find another vet I guess just see how it goes, although my vet is really good and she has done a lot for my animals.
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Post by animalmadfliss on Apr 17, 2018 12:16:29 GMT
I actually felt she was gonna be ok yesterday and now I’m feeling it’s a tooth root issue. What if I have put her through all this for nothing to improve for her? I had this with degus in the past and they all ended up being pts when it got too bad. Do you think I need to take her somewhere else and get her put out again and x-rayed? I don’t want her to suffer.
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Post by animalmadfliss on Apr 17, 2018 12:32:23 GMT
I have a question. What is the outcome for a chinchilla with tooth root issues in the upper part of the mouth? Would the chinchilla be ok to be left or would it need to be put to sleep?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2018 13:09:16 GMT
You were right for having the spur sorted, as that would have caused discomfort and eventually stopped her from eating.
I would look at getting X-rays sooner rather than later as she may be in pain.
We have a lot of degus with dental disease and it’s usually manageable for a period of time.
Depending on the extent of the dental disease it’s usually managed by painkillers and regular trips to the vet to see how the disease is progressing (check every few months). We’ve had degus live several years with dental disease and live happy lives.
You have to just keep an eye on it, make sure you’re on time with the pain killers as and when they need to be ministered and improve their diet.
Diet improvements can really slow dental disease down and we have witnessed as such on this forum. We have also been experimenting with increasing vitamin D with lamps. But diet improvements is the safest step forward.
What do you feed your chinchillas currently?
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Post by animalmadfliss on Apr 17, 2018 13:40:55 GMT
Charlie Chinchilla food and fresh hay everyday. I have 2 reach 17 on that diet. One is still going strong.
I feel I will get her over this bit first. Then maybe get x-rays done.
I’m a bit confused what’s for the best right now to be honest.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2018 14:11:55 GMT
I’d recommend switching to a high quality nugget choice as Charlie Chinchilla is unfortunately one of the worst available in the UK.
Science Selective and Burgess are good choices.
Here’s the breakdown of Charlie Chinchilla: Wheat, timothy hay, alfalfa meal, flaked peas, soya bean hulls, flaked maize, soya bean meal, extruded maize, wheat feed, linseeds, soya oil, dried carrot, sunflower oil, calcium carbonate. Analytical Constituents Protein 16.0%, Crude fibre 15.0%, Fat content 3.0%, Inorganic matter 5.0%, Calcium 0.6%, Phosphorus 0.4%. Nutritional Additives/kg Vitamin A 20000 IU, Vitamin D3 2000 IU, Ferrous sulphate monohydrate 61mg, Calcium iodate anhydrous 1.5mg, Copper sulphate pentahydrate 20mg, Manganese oxide 32mg, Zinc oxide 87mg, Sodium selenite 0.3mg.
It’s a muesli type food too.
I’d let her recover from this initial procedure and maybe get a second opinion from another exotics trained vet. But if she was my chinchilla I’d definitely be pushing for X-rays once she’s recovered in a few weeks or so.
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Post by animalmadfliss on Apr 17, 2018 18:21:54 GMT
Well it looks like she has gone into stasis. I have gut movement drugs to give her. She won’t even take a raisin, just chucks it away! Losing battle maybe, I don’t want to give up on her.
My chinchillas are very fussy and won’t eat other foods, I tried a few pellet style feeds and they turn their noses up. I’m probably not changing Nibby’s diet even if it’s not the best food in the world. She’s 17 and lost her sister. More change would stop her eating all together. I may mix another feed with it and see if they take to it. I may change my other two over completely but never had any issues with this food to be honest.
My rabbits have burgess excel pellets, forage and hay. I also like burns hay I feel that’s a good quality. I use hay experts for bits and pieces for the chins and buns.
My immediate problem is trying to keep my baby alive. I’m going to make her food syringable and try to get a bit down her. Complete nightmare. Poor little animal.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2018 18:59:26 GMT
Well it looks like she has gone into stasis. I have gut movement drugs to give her. She won’t even take a raisin, just chucks it away! Losing battle maybe, I don’t want to give up on her. My chinchillas are very fussy and won’t eat other foods, I tried a few pellet style feeds and they turn their noses up. I’m probably not changing Nibby’s diet even if it’s not the best food in the world. She’s 17 and lost her sister. More change would stop her eating all together. I may mix another feed with it and see if they take to it. I may change my other two over completely but never had any issues with this food to be honest. My rabbits have burgess excel pellets, forage and hay. I also like burns hay I feel that’s a good quality. I use hay experts for bits and pieces for the chins and buns. My immediate problem is trying to keep my baby alive. I’m going to make her food syringable and try to get a bit down her. Complete nightmare. Poor little animal. Did you get any critical care from the vet you could give her?
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Post by animalmadfliss on Apr 17, 2018 19:33:39 GMT
No critical care given.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2018 20:41:31 GMT
You have to buy it from the vets, they don’t usually give it out as standard. It’s always excellent to have on hand for herbivores. You can order it from Amazon I believe.. or perhaps you could pick some up from your vet tomorrow? You’ll need a syringe too.
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Post by animalmadfliss on Apr 18, 2018 8:10:36 GMT
This morning there is some poop in the cage and some evidence of trying to eat. There is crumbled food pieces on the wooden ledge. Her mouth and chin however are even wetter than before. Poor little girl.
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Post by moletteuk on Apr 18, 2018 10:06:36 GMT
(I've never kept chinchillas, but we don't have all that many chin members of the forum, so I'll offer my degu based experience for now.) I'm sorry she is struggling since the procedure, I think it must be good that she has tried to eat overnight and you have found some poop. How did you get on syringing her with food? You could probably mix mashed pellets with some veggie baby food to try to make something more syringable. It's probably worth trying a few recipes and leaving some on a little dish in case she wants to try to eat for herself. You can mash your own veg, small amount of fruit or nuts, porridge etc just see if anything tempts her. Depending on how she is I would probably give the vet a call, there probably isn't too much they can do beyond syringe feeding and providing Critical Care, but it might be worth speaking to them anyway. Critical Care or Supreme Recovery Plus are brilliant for tackling or avoiding stasis or just for support when there is any health problem. You can buy single sachets with reasonable postage here: www.thehayexperts.co.uk/critical-care.html Fibreplex products are an option too. If possible I would get a packet from your vet today. Can you have a look and feel of her jaw just to check everything is aligned correctly at the hinge since the procedure? Don't worry about x-rays for now, it's best to avoid another anaesthetic for preferably a month or so, let's see how things go over the next few days.
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Post by animalmadfliss on Apr 18, 2018 11:12:01 GMT
Thank you so much. I have such a headache dealing with her. I’m so scared she’s in pain. I have called my vet again today but she’s not in today and will call me tomorrow. I will get some critical care as soon as I can. I’m ordering it now. This is one of the worst things I have had to deal with I think because normally I’m so confident in what the treatment should be. I think I’m panicking a bit I’m feeling so stressed out, but that doesn’t help pika does it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2018 11:26:44 GMT
Thank you so much. I have such a headache dealing with her. I’m so scared she’s in pain. I have called my vet again today but she’s not in today and will call me tomorrow. I will get some critical care as soon as I can. I’m ordering it now. This is one of the worst things I have had to deal with I think because normally I’m so confident in what the treatment should be. I think I’m panicking a bit I’m feeling so stressed out, but that doesn’t help pika does it. Don’t panic! Spur removal is not an unusual procedure and I think most of us here have had a degu at the very least go through it. Some of us have degus go through it every few months. It can be scary, they’re such small animals. But degus and chins are tougher than they look! Wait to hear back from your vet and if you aren’t confident in her then do look for a second opinion. You don’t have to keep all of your eggs in one basket. Discuss the symptoms and what you’d like to happen over X period of time, including getting to the bottom of her weepy eyes. It’s good you’ve seen signs of eating and pooping, that means her gut is moving somewhat. Critical care will help it move along.
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Post by animalmadfliss on Apr 18, 2018 12:20:03 GMT
I have blended her food and she’s eating it now without a syringe. I will talk to my vet tomorrow about the worsening of the drooling. I can’t do much else today apart from provide her with plenty of food options and pain relief. It really is scary.
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Post by moletteuk on Apr 18, 2018 14:44:09 GMT
There's nothing worse than pet stress!
Brilliant that she is eating for herself, stasis is the immediate enemy, so if you can get her eating enough to keep her gut moving, then you have some time to figure out her teeth/eyes.
In degus it can take 1 to 7 days for them to recover from a dental trim, I think it depends where the spur is in the mouth as to how far the vet has to strain the jaw and soft tissue to get access, and also a spur may have damaged the tongue or cheek. I'm sure sometimes their mouth may just feel weird for a couple of days and they need time to get used to it. As long as the jaw hasn't been damaged (very unusual) and they are eating enough to avoid stasis, you might need to ride out the rough patch of recovery to see where you are at.
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Post by animalmadfliss on Apr 18, 2018 16:07:21 GMT
Thank you these were my thoughts exactly. You made me feel so much better. My worst fear is letting an animal suffer. X
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Post by animalmadfliss on Apr 19, 2018 10:25:57 GMT
I have the critical care for Pika. She’s very up and down. ☹️
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