Pups looking for new homes in Cambridgeshire

[tse308]

Hello!

Due to a sexing mix-up at the pet store our lovable family of degus has gone from 3 to 10 on May 4th.

As a result we are looking to find some happy forever homes for 4 of the pups. We intend to keep 2 girls to live with the mother and one has been promised a home by a local degu owner with her band.

This leaves us with 4 boys available. Looking to go as a whole group or 2 sets of 2.

We would ideally be looking for a small donation to help us cover the costs of the new cage for each one.

So far babies have inherited a very friendly nature from the mother and seem happy to sit on shoulders etc.

Pictures will follow shortly once they sit still long enough for me to take a nice one!

[deguconvert]

Where is Daddy? Do you have him?

[tse308]

May 29, 2017 3:14:48 GMT deguconvert said:

Where is Daddy? Do you have him?

Hello!

We do have the dad, however it is a little bit more complex. Aside from the mother we had 2 brothers either of whom could be the father.

However from how one of them acts before the pregnancy and is now acting with the babies we believe we know which is the dad.

He is also a very happy and calm degu.

[savvy]

You need to separate the adult males from the adult females now, degus can become pregnant within 24 hours of giving birth so its likely you're going to have another litter in about 3 months.

Back to back pregnancies are not good for the mother.

[tse308]

May 29, 2017 12:15:48 GMT savvy said:

You need to separate the adult males from the adult females now, degus can become pregnant within 24 hours of giving birth so its likely you're going to have another litter in about 3 months.

Back to back pregnancies are not good for the mother.

The mother was separated as soon as we realized she was pregnant until 10 days after birth. Now both mother and litter have been moved into the "main" cage with the brothers. We are currently exploring options with our vet so this doesn't happen again!

[Deleted]

Hi tse308 and welcome to the forum!

You need to separate the Mom from the brothers as soon as possible as you will end up with another litter, if she's not pregnant again already. You should not put males and females together unless either the males or females are neutered/spayed. It only takes once for them to get pregnant.

It sounds like you may have another pregnancy on your hands soon.

Please separate them to avoid future pregnancies.

Only keep females with females and males with males unless they're fixed so they cannot mate and reproduce.

Once your babies are 6 weeks old the male babies will be able to potentially impregnate any females. So you'll need to put the male babies at that point with dad and uncle, the female pups with mom.

Is your vet experienced in degus? There aren't many experienced vets and neutering can go wrong as it's very invasive and you can come across post-op problems. Not meaning to scare you but you should consider who you choose to take your degus to carefully.

May I ask what size cages you have?

To keep two groups, one of 3 and one of 2 you'll need two large cages.

Have you looked at our cage guide?



I recommend you perhaps read our beginners section on degu keeping, it'll fill you in on the basics of degu keeping.

Also please read our pregnancy guide, as it seems you may have been reading some (unfortunately) questionable advice, there's plenty of it on the internet so don't feel bad! It's hard to realise that many of the sources online are very very outdated.

[ntg]

If you don't want this to happen again then I really recommend that you keep the males separate. We don't recommend having more than a single neutered male in with females as it can cause increased aggression between the males when the female is in heat/season/oestrus.

You say you put them back in after 10 days, and it's been 25 days since the pups were born. A degus cycle is around 21 days so chances are she could be pregnant already, and that's not taking into consideration that the cycle is a lot less predictable shortly after giving birth.

So my suggestion would be to keep all the female pups, and rehome the males (including dad and uncle) or to keep two separate colonies (preferably groups of three or larger) with two cages the size of an aventura/liberta explorer or bigger.

[tse308]

Thank you for all of the advise all!

My partner and I have kept degus for several years now and have been using the degutopia resources as our main source of information here. That said we are very much in new territory here with the pregnancy!

Cage size wise we have a very large multi-layered cage which according to www.degutopia.co.uk/deguhouse.htm calculator can house 6-7 adult goos, although we would ideally like a maximum of 5 in order to maximize the time we can spend with each.

Again with regards to moving the family in together we had been using the www.degutopia.co.uk/degubreedhow.htm as to my understanding the males could be present until 6 weeks old so we would look to move into our old cage until their operations around the 12th June.

The brothers (Buttons and Truffle) have been with us for quite some time now since pups so ideally we would like to keep them if we can as we are very close to them and the mother (Toffee).

Can anyone recommend any vets in the Cambridge/East Anglia region for this procedure?

[ntg]

Unfortunately, degutopia is extremely outdated with their cage size recommendations (and diet recommendations). Rather than going off the volume of a cage, we calculate the surface area that is available for a degu to run on since they are ground squirrels that need the space to run. We've found that our degus are much happier, display more natural behaviours and form more stable groups with the bigger cages that are more suitable for them.

As for their advice with pregnancy and putting the male back in, we've seen a lot of cases where the male has been put back in and a second pregnancy has occurred which is why we recommend that the male is taken out as soon as the pups are born/earlier if the pregnancy is noticed and that he remains apart either for good or until 6 weeks after neutering.

[ntg]

Also neutering is an extremely stressful procedure for a degu - it puts a lot of strain on the body - so if you can avoid putting a degu through it then we would strongly recommend against it.

However, if you are insistent on having it done, check our vet guide in the degu health section to see if a vet is recommended in your area.

[tse308]

May 29, 2017 15:11:19 GMT ntg said:

Also neutering is an extremely stressful procedure for a degu - it puts a lot of strain on the body - so if you can avoid putting a degu through it then we would strongly recommend against it.

However, if you are insistent on having it done, check our vet guide in the degu health section to see if a vet is recommended in your area.

Thank you for this, I understand it isn't to be taken lightly and we do not wish any extra stress on the boys. I think it would break Toffee's little heart though to lose her boys, they are all very close as a group and she was very upset when we lost her original companion last year.

I have found a vet on the list that isn't very far away and have reached out to them.

Cage wise the layout of the cage is in such a way that they have plenty of surface area as there is two large base levels and two platform levels, we have peg platforms going around the edge of the cage into hammocks and tubes.

[Deleted]

I have to agree with ntg and say that degutopia is extremely outdated in many areas.

Tubes and hammocks and ledges don't count towards cage space, surface area isn't up to date anymore. Only full or half levels count. They are ground squirrels as ntg has said. So for your two boys an Aventura/Liberta Explorer or Rat Royale XL would just be big enough - it would be better if you made the half levels into full, it would be more comfortable for them.

I wouldn't put the two boys back in with the female once they're neutered - usually only one male works. You also then have to consider whether neutering is worth it as you'd have to then separate the two boys who sound like they are bonded.

Toffee would be very happy with a female pup I'm sure. So you'd need another Liberta/Aventura style cage for her and one or two pups, but if you kept two pups you'd have to modify the cage.

What is the length and width of your cage? You could make it suitable for one of your groups possibly.

[tse308]

92x64x160cm is the cage its an Aventura TK1152 from a quick search.

Again thank you for all the advise, wasn't expecting this sort of response when I made the post, although we will still be looking to re-home the male pups either way I feel!

[Deleted]

@tse okay! So the Aventura as is is good for 2 degus.

To house 3/4 you'd need to make the half levels into full levels and utilise the space as well as possible.

You'd still need another Aventura type cage to house your second group

Rehoming the male pups sounds like a fine choice. If you cannot fit another cage in your home what will you do about the female pups/your two males if you don't mind in me asking? As housing size is so important to degus, it would be unfortunate to overcrowd them. They would start fighting and being generally unhappy.

[deguconvert]

deguworld.proboards.com/thread/15521/vet-guide Have a look through that link, you might find a recommended Vet in there that is near you.

Degus have a 21 day cycle which does not stop while lactating, so they are still very fertile even while raising their pups. Degus have post-estrus fertility, which means that once a litter of pups has been delivered, she is immediately ready for pregnancy again, and if the males are with her, she will be pregnant again right away. You have said that you removed the brothers as soon as you knew she was pregnant, so you have avoided that pregnancy opportunity, but may not have avoided those that have come since. You may still have another litter on the way.

Degutopia has been a good source of information, but there is information that could be updated, such as nutrition and cage sizes/per degu. Wild degus have large territories that encompass approximately a 5 km diameter. They cover this territory daily in their search for food and protecting their space. They are a ground squirrel. If you transpose this large natural habitat with the cages that are made available to us, all of them are insufficient, but there are some that are better. The chart that we use gives a more spacious area that truly improves the behavior and overall life of degus. We do not recommend an abundance of shelving and small ledges, but rather full/complete levels that focus on large horizontal cages rather than narrow and tall vertical cages. What Degutopia still adheres to is simply much too small.

[tse308]

We'll have a decision to make there, I really want to avoid breaking up our current group if we can, I've spent the day trawling the forum and internet for tips etc but I am still a little unclear as to why 2 neutered degus with Toffee and say one female pup wouldn't work in a modified cage?

If that above was to work we would have 4 boys and a single girl looking for homes.

[deguconvert]

If you have a cage that is large enough, and modifications to the Aventura should do that, then I think you could have two neutered males and two females together in a group. However, males can play favorites with one female over another, and this can result in them trying to drive away the less favored female. Pretty are to do in an enclosed space. This results in the less favored female being beaten and potentially killed in their efforts to scare her out of their space. This is not a thing that can be predicted. We had, for a short time, two males and two females living together. They got along great, until one day they didn't. The males both really liked one of the girls, and one boy suddenly loathed the other girl. When I caught him stalking and attacking her, I had to speed up the new cage build (our boys were not neutered) and get them parted. Thankfully I had a large travel cage that I could put the boys into for a few days, while I finished off the new cage. I am certain that saved her life.

I don't know what triggered the dislike. I can't tell you how to avoid that. I can tell you that if this is a road you wish to travel, you need to be vigilant in examining the skin of all four of your degus to ensure that no one is being attacked and covered in bites.

[winic1]

Very often, even tho they are neutered, two males will get territorial and fight over the females in the group. Generally works better to have only one male, even when neutered, with a group of females. The females work out their hierarchy. The male doesn't feel the need to defend his harem from other males.
You might get lucky and the two neutered males would be okay with the females. Often, it doesn't work out this way. So if you wish to try it, you need to have a backup plan for if it fails, as there is a very real probability it could.

Degutopia is, unfortunately, outdated in many areas. Yes, on the home page it has new updates to roll by right in the center. But look, after the two updates put in this year, it has been TWO YEARS since any other updates were noted, and few and far between before that. The site has pretty much just been sitting there as is for quite a while. Much of the info is no longer the best to follow. At all.

People here are not intending to be attacking you, they are just concerned for the welfare of the degus and for the many, many pups you may be about to find your degus having. Crowded degu groups, even family ones, tend to have more fights and more injuries, more stress and more health problems. We want to help you prevent such problems BEFORE you are in the middle of them. That's why these issues have been brought up.

Please take the time to read the newer, more up to date info here, with an open mind, and consider it while making your plans. Much of it has been drawn from German sites, which are state of the art and experience in degu-keeping (there are members here who read German and bring the info to this site.) We are happy to discuss and help people do their best for their degus, but you have to be open to other ideas besides quoting Degutopia.

[winic1]

If you get two Aventuras, and do get the males neutered, and all degus you keep are getting along well, you can join the cages together into a massive cage, which, with the extra shelving added, gives plenty of floor area for a family of 5 or six. If the groups didn't get along, then you could keep them as two separate cages, one males, one females, and all is good anyway.

[randomname]

animaldiversity.org/accounts/Octodon_degus/ explains what could happen with the males in breeding season (behaviour still occurs after neutering, especially if displayed previously)