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Post by chihirolee3 on Apr 11, 2017 15:12:34 GMT
Other websites have said that forage and seeds should be treats or given once a day and that hay should be constantly available. many seeds are high in fat (like sunflowers) and i thought they should have little fat. this is the cage i ordered. Hope it works. Still not used to a smartphone www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01M164VAA/ref=ya_aw_od_pi?ie=UTF8&psc=1As far as the bedroom, there's not much choice due to our cats and lack of temp control, especially come summertime.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2017 15:21:48 GMT
Can I ask what made you purchase that cage? It's unfortunately not at all suitable for degus, there are no full levels and it's very small. Degus need each full level to be 100cm across the front and 50cm deep, or 90cm across the front is acceptable as that's what most bought cages are, except for a few larger exceptions. Degus need running space and not climbing space. They are fairly bad climbers and that cage has rather large drops, where a degu could seriously and very easily injure itself. It's also all mesh so you will have to cover all of the mesh, degus cannot be on mesh it causes bumblefoot. You must be careful re your sources of Degu information on the Internet, there are some very out of date and unreliable sources with entirely incorrect information. Forage is the staple of their diet. By seeds we mean the list of seed moletteuk has listed you. Forage should be around 10 different types, unlimited. Hay should also be constantly available like forage, but forage is more important as a part of their diet. Sunflowers are a treat yes, and should be given no more than once a week. I give them one sunflower seed each once a week.
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Post by chihirolee3 on Apr 11, 2017 15:38:13 GMT
My husband thought that caring for a degu is like my hedgehog, whom i have a 2 tier plastic tub the I made. He seriously believed a degu would be like a hedgehog OR a hamster (small cage, simple toys, etc) or JUST a wheel and tp tubes like my hedgehog. He doesnt want me to spend much, so looking at that other person's cage really gave me some ideas since oak is abundant around me. However Im a metal worker (machinist and welder) not a wood worker but seeing other ideas makes me want to do similar to what I did for my hedgehog..
I cancelled the cage order. After the comments about it and seeing that other person's incredible cage design, I am going to convert a bookshelf into a cage. My husband broght a large one home the other day he got for free (i have over 2000 books), but this bookshelf is missing shelves and the vaneer backing is badly falling off, however it otherwise looks new.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2017 15:40:02 GMT
Okay. That's good! But I'm a bit confused on your choice of cage? The cage you've bought is really unsuitable. Can I ask who the other person who's cage you have seen is?
Hamsters need large cages, not small, again pet shops are to blame for misinformation.
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Post by chihirolee3 on Apr 11, 2017 15:47:01 GMT
Winic1's cage setup. Im sorry, i dont know how to use the forum interface on a smartphone yet. I cant look at previous posts to reference people. I am still struggling to type I had a basic flip phone for years so pardon my bad spelling and editing
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Post by winic1 on Apr 11, 2017 15:50:55 GMT
I hate to say it, but that cage is about as wrong as you can get. Degus are ground squirrels. That means like chipmunks and even prairie dogs. Not like tree squirrels, the gray ones that run through the treetops. Ground dwellers, living in burrows, running among the rocks and dry grasses and bushes, in a semi-desert type area. They need horizontal space (flat), not climbing environments. Even if you put that cage on its side, it will barely be big enough for one degu, certainly not for two. Then, degus chew. Like insanely chew things. He WILL eat those plastic corner joiners. And then escape. If you go with this type of cage, you will need to abandon the plastic connectors, and use wire or j-clips (something like this, tool and clips required: www.amazon.com/J-clip-Pliers-Heavy-building-pliers/dp/B00BQM8SFK)to hold it together safely. Since most of the people on this site are in England, and then Europe, they always give dimensions in centimeters. In inches, the cage should be a minimum of 40 inches across and 20 inches deep, and then tall enough to give three full levels, for a pair of degus. Very hard to find cages that big here in the US, so the closest compromise are ones like the Midwest Critter Nation, which is 36"x24" floorspace, and then you get the Double version which is 48 inches tall (plus stand) so you get two full levels and two half levels. Then, there is enough adjustability that you can add in more levels or shelves if you wish. So this is the kind of space you are looking for: www.amazon.com/MidWest-Critter-Nation-Animal-Habitat/dp/B001NJ0DAYAnd, the price it comes up as today is the best I have ever seen! Yes, it is more than double the cage you ordered, but if you consider buying tools and supplies to make that one suitable, and then another one to make it big enough, you will spend more than what this one costs.
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Post by winic1 on Apr 11, 2017 15:55:18 GMT
Then, there is the issue of bumblefoot. Having had a hedgehog, are you familiar with that? Living on wire mesh, it causes pressure points and sores and swelling and thickened spots and all kinds of horrible problems with their little feet. They need solid floors. Wood, metal, even cardboard covers are better than mesh. Plastic works until they start to chew it. I edged mine with wood, so they couldn't get to an edge, and it has survived. Not everyone is so lucky. I figured we'd leave the plastic until it got destroyed, then work in wood or order the metal trays that other suppliers have. So far, so good, tho.
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Post by chihirolee3 on Apr 11, 2017 16:01:42 GMT
My husband is really trying to be nice, but his lack of small animal knowledge in general is really causing me problems because he wants me to stay cheap (and small. The cage he got for it is about 3ft x 2ft x 1ft tall....not even big enough for a wheel. Well he did have a wheel for it but its a hamster wheel, and they need a wheel the same size for a hedgehog (12in)! It's been hard to catch myself up on how to make a home a care for Ludu, while literally fighting my husbands ignorance without making him feel awful for the added stress he's given me... :/ I feel like this akin to the stories i hear about when people spontaneously bring home a puppy because it was cute which are more often than not stories without a happy ending
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Post by chihirolee3 on Apr 11, 2017 16:10:17 GMT
The bookshelf is 7ft tall x 3ft wide x 1ft deep. My husband would absolutely not let me buy that as its too expensive. Its impossible to return the degu. My husband got him at a swap meet with no vendor contacts let alone any way to find the "breeder" online (i've tried). I think the people he bought Ludu from are not reputable considering the little info my husband was given in regards to the commitment and care...and the fact they were okay with selling a single one, and not pairs if thats so crucile. People like that anger me so much! my husband said they had chinchillas and hedgehogs too on top of mice and rats. It was in the 60s F on Sunday, a temp that will kill hedgehogs!
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Post by chihirolee3 on Apr 11, 2017 16:23:25 GMT
Making a bookshelf deeper is not a problem since i will only be working with the outer shell of the shelf. It's easy to make an elongated metal base of a shelving, add proper supports, and add wire caging around a metal frame. I could do the whole bookshelf or do sections where it opens up to a bigger area. With the smaller sections, not only would they be able see more of the "world" fron different angles, but i can also see cleaning be easier, since some areas will need more cleaning than others.
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Post by deguconvert on Apr 11, 2017 16:25:59 GMT
Wardrobes can also be a good choice if converting old furniture is the plan that is being pursued. Also think about the potential of turning a thing on it's side and using it that way. Although the book shelf is seriously too shallow to provide good spacing, a wardrobe tipped on it side, shelves removed and new shelves adapted to the tipped over condition, could provide ample depth and length.
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Post by savvy on Apr 11, 2017 16:28:28 GMT
OK, firstly take a deep breath.
I think you may be getting overwhelmed with information and it's not helping. I'll take it point by point and these are all of equal importance.
1. Cage All metal cages are best, degus chew like you wouldn't believe and can easily escape any cages that have plastic bases or trays, trust me, it can take minutes. Before planning on anything elaborate you need the basics of a decent cage. Winic has given you the minimum size to work from.
All ledges must be solid metal or wood, not mesh or open as this can cause serious injuries. You also need to check theverything bar spacing so he cannot get through. Any cage that is not substantial, will not contain a degu for long, as they will find a way out.
You need one that's easy to clean and will take all of his toys and give him space to run, they do love to run.
2. Diet. Seeds are given daily as food, together with other treats should be given very sparingly usually once a week or even monthly. Hay and forage (leaves, blossoms, etc) need unlimited access. Take care of sugar contents, not only just added sugars, some vegetables (peas, carrots, etc) are also high in natural sugars and should be limited. Some seeds, such as sunflower, millet, can be used as training aids to help him bond with you, but must be limited.
3. Toys. Cardboard tubes (toilet rolls with or without the tissue, carpet roll tubes) make excellent toys and can be chewed safely. I never buy commercial toys as they are expensive and usually unsuitable. Cardboard boxes, cardboard egg boxes etc are also great and can be used to hide treats in and encourage natural behaviour.
There is plenty more to take into consideration, but these are the basics.
We have found that other websites are not updated often enough to keep current with degu care, but please feel free to ask questions, we will try to help.
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Post by chihirolee3 on Apr 11, 2017 16:43:10 GMT
Thank You everyone for the feedback and information. I can't help but feel sorry for Ludu. I feel very gratelful that there is a dedicated community to Degu's. We are all here because we care about our pets and want them to have the best lives possible while they in turn enrich our lives and families. As with my last post, people who breed exotics for a quick dollar make me so mad, and I just hope that people who bought Degu's at that swap meet will find this forum and do all they can to care for their Degu's. My pets are family. And although Ludu came to me very unexpectantly, I want to do all I can to make him as happy and healthy as my other pets are.
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Post by deguconvert on Apr 11, 2017 16:53:35 GMT
And we will do all we can to help you navigate the complex path that can be. The learning curve for degus is quite steep, but it is well worth the learning, and degus are well worth the effort. Wonderful little animals!!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2017 17:33:49 GMT
Yes, most importantly we are here to help. The bookcase I think is a no go, it sounds way too complicated and is just not worth it, you'd end up spending a fortune, probably as much or maybe more than the cage winic1 has linked you to. Perhaps look on secondhand sites for the cage we've shown you, or for a large wardrobe, as they're usually deep enough and long enough. If you tell us your area we can keep a look out for you. If you let us know your budget we could also possibly find you a relatively suitable new cage for the money, but we need to know what we are working with. For entertainment, the toys savvy has suggested are great. A toilet roll that you start out and put in the cage is great fun and they'll stuff it into their nest. Or give them it sheet by sheet and they'll take each sheet and go and stuff it somewhere. Kitchen roll works too. Egg boxes filled with hay and seed (the seed moletteuk listed you), then closed makes good fun and makes him work for his food. If you haven't bought him somewhere to sleep yet, sturdy cardboard boxes are great, as are other ones for him to chew and keep his teeth down. You could go and check around where you live for safe branches to cut from trees (check with our safe list). He will shred the bark from them. Bedding you can use paper bedding, cardboard based bedding, anything that completely breaks down, there's a list of safe bedding on the forum. You can use sheet stuff too, so hemp sheets of coco fibre mats. All of the information you need to know is in our Beginners Guide and then our Housing section and our Diet section, when you have time you could read through bit by bit. The top priority is getting him out of a hamster cage and developing your knowledge on his diet. We are here to help you, so please ask away.
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Post by winic1 on Apr 11, 2017 17:58:29 GMT
Could you start with a Single Critter Nation, and then get the second section later on? Would hubby go for that? Although, I have NEVER seen a new Critter Nation for under $250, plus shipping usually, and that was a really good price. Could you convince hubby that by spending $203 you will never have to buy another cage for him AND his future companion?
With only one right now, and if you only get 1 companion, you would not have to add to a CN double. That could come much later on, if you wanted to. You'd only have to cover or replace the ramps, and add on some sort of edging to protect the plastic trays for now. And, since there are wire floors underneath the plastic trays, if they do chew the trays, they still cannot escape.
You mentioned that you are very rural, right? So I would assume you have plenty of woods nearby? I collected all kinds of sticks and branches and logs in rigging out my cage. There are lists here of safe woods. Some easy ones to spot when there are still no leaves out are beech and birch. Do you know your trees? You could edge things with branches. Good for them to chew on, and free!
Or, since you say you are good with metalworking (yes?) you could make metal guards all around.
If you want to use the bookcase, you would have to make it deeper. You could make a combo wood and metal cage, the back half is the bookshelf, the front half is your metal frame and some kind of wire/grid/whatever. You just have to make the floor solid, not wire, and make sure that wherever wood joins other stuff there is no edge of the wood that they can get their teeth on to chew themselves a hole (must be flush and protected/covered). If you took that 3' wide bookshelf and brought it out to at least 2' deep, with the extra height it has it would be bigger than a Double Critter Nation. you could also vary the shelf heights to put in the big wheel on one level, and then a lower height on the next to be more of a burrow-like area.
Sometimes you can find them the big cages on Craigslist or Hoobly. Just be aware that the Ferret Nation has too-wide bar spacing (1"), you need to be sure it's a Critter Nation (1/2") or some other equivalent size cage with 1/2" bar spacing.
I understand that husbands can sometimes not see the difference between spending $200 to get an item on the spot, and spending $50 here, $30 there, another $60 for this, etc....and a lot of time building, to end up with the same end result.
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Post by winic1 on Apr 11, 2017 18:06:36 GMT
Tell/show him that Petco.com has this cage 'on sale' for $285, normally $299. What a deal, right?
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Post by winic1 on Apr 11, 2017 18:34:58 GMT
Also, right now your degu is tiny, right? Fully grown, he could be as big as 250 grams, or more. 250 grams is a bit over half a pound. My degus are close to 300 grams, that's 2/3 of a pound. So he is going to get much bigger. Big as the hedgehog, at least, depending on how big your hedgehog is. And, unlike the hedgehog, who pad and snuffle along (we had one), as you can see, degus RUN! Little lightning bolts compared to hedgehogs. That's why they need so much more space.
Is the flea market a regular thing? Even if you can't track down the seller, perhaps make some comments/complaint to whoever runs it about people selling pets there without proper care for the animals or advice to the buyers.
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Post by moletteuk on Apr 12, 2017 11:13:55 GMT
Since you are a metal worker, do you have time to make a cage? Most home made cages are made of wood, but there is no reason why you couldn't make it predominantly from metal if that is easier or cheaper for you. You could make a frame from angle profiles, mesh all round, metal trays for shelves, very similar to the commercial cages. Or you could put a sheet of plywood on the back to stiffen it up and make attaching shelves easier, and use melamine faced chipboard for the shelves with edging round each shelf of softwood to avoid them chewing the melamine.
You could adapt the bookshelf to be suitable if you can make it deeper front to back. Sometimes it is easier to do a build from scratch than try to adapt something that isn't right, so give that some thought. Any little holes or loose veneer will attract chewing, so the inner surfaces may need covering with something like hardboard, which again may mean it is easier to start from scratch.
Many other degu sites are out of date. Forage is necessary, high calcium seeds are recommended, low calcium high fat seeds like sunflower and treats and likewise grains like millet are treats.
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Post by ntg on Apr 12, 2017 12:39:26 GMT
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