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Post by diet otaku on Jul 14, 2006 19:42:12 GMT
so you're breeding them against the advice of everyone on this forum. fantastic.
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Post by mrflibble on Jul 14, 2006 20:09:06 GMT
Whats so wrong about giving these degus something that they would naturally do in the wild??
you may not think so but i do respect your opinions so i would also ask you to respect mine
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Post by diet otaku on Jul 14, 2006 20:18:11 GMT
there are several reasons why breeding is not in the best interest of domesticated degus. (1) wild degus are breeding primarily to replenish members of the species cut down by their natural predators. pet degus don't have any predators, therefore they don't have to replenish their numbers. (2) wild degus have a much larger gene pool at their disposal. your profile doesn't indicate where you live, but american degus come from a group of 10 that were brought in for research. as a result of that fact, and the irresponsible handling by owners and petshops, there is a lot of accidental inbreeding in the american degu population. without knowing your degus' family tree, as the experienced breeders on this forum do, you are putting your degus at risk for even more inbreeding. (3) wild degus have a much larger living area to accomodate their families. their colonies number up to 100 because they dig massive tunnel systems under the ground. quite a big difference from pet cages, which i'm sure feel cramped even with 2 degus, much less 12 (which you might end up with if even ONE female has a large litter). EDIT: forgot to add that breeding also reduces a degu's lifespan. in captivity, degus can live 5-10 years... think of each litter as shaving a year off mom's life. in the wild, this doesn't matter because they're not going to live long anyway (thanks to predators). but do you really want to see your beloved pets pass on so soon, just for the sake of seeing cute babies for a couple of weeks? (because baby degus DO grow up quickly... an 8-week old degu is roughly the same size and appearance as a year-old adult.)
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Hanlou
Burrowing Degu
Basil
Posts: 284
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Post by Hanlou on Jul 14, 2006 20:19:52 GMT
Whats so wrong about giving these degus something that they would naturally do in the wild?? you may not think so but i do respect your opinions so i would also ask you to respect mine Breeding takes a lot of care and thought. If you breed degus that are closely related, genetic problems can develop. Things can go hideously wrong. Are you prepared for the cost of 3 emergency caesarians if things do go wrong?!! can you cope with hand-feeding 3 lots of degu babies if mum rejects them? Can you cope with watching mum eat the babies because she got stressed? (It happens...) Do you have good homes set up for them all? Do you have suitable cages for 3 mums and their babies? Do you have cages for the babies once they are weaned? Do you know when they need seperating males from females? Can you tell males and females apart? Do you know about nutrition for mum and babies? Do you know the signs of things going badly when mum gives birth? Did you know that there are loads of degus in rescues in desperate need of homes? These degus aren't in the wild. They are in our homes, we have a responsibilty to take care of them properly. Forgive us all for sounding so abrupt and judgemental, but looking at the posts you've given us so far, you sound anything but a caring and responsible degu owner. Bringing life into the world is always a big responsibility. If you mess this up, someone else will end up picking up the pieces. Which is what I have seen time and time again with my rats. I have rescues that are aggressive, that are sickly and unhealthy because someone couldn't care less and bred their rats.
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Post by mrflibble on Jul 14, 2006 21:13:17 GMT
there are several reasons why breeding is not in the best interest of domesticated degus. (1) wild degus are breeding primarily to replenish members of the species cut down by their natural predators. pet degus don't have any predators, therefore they don't have to replenish their numbers. (2) wild degus have a much larger gene pool at their disposal. your profile doesn't indicate where you live, but american degus come from a group of 10 that were brought in for research. as a result of that fact, and the irresponsible handling by owners and petshops, there is a lot of accidental inbreeding in the american degu population. without knowing your degus' family tree, as the experienced breeders on this forum do, you are putting your degus at risk for even more inbreeding. (3) wild degus have a much larger living area to accomodate their families. their colonies number up to 100 because they dig massive tunnel systems under the ground. quite a big difference from pet cages, which i'm sure feel cramped even with 2 degus, much less 12 (which you might end up with if even ONE female has a large litter). EDIT: forgot to add that breeding also reduces a degu's lifespan. in captivity, degus can live 5-10 years... think of each litter as shaving a year off mom's life. in the wild, this doesn't matter because they're not going to live long anyway (thanks to predators). but do you really want to see your beloved pets pass on so soon, just for the sake of seeing cute babies for a couple of weeks? (because baby degus DO grow up quickly... an 8-week old degu is roughly the same size and appearance as a year-old adult.) lol
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Hanlou
Burrowing Degu
Basil
Posts: 284
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Post by Hanlou on Jul 14, 2006 21:17:40 GMT
Now just why is that post funny?!
You're not exactly doing much of a job in convincing us that you are in fact someone that cares about his animals....... :-( .......... though I don't think you really care about what we think of you. Obviously. However, this isn't about what we think of you, this is about the welfare of your animals. That is the only reason we have all posted as we have. We want what's best for your degus. Why did you come here in the first place, may I ask?!
Because if you came for advice, why did you bother? You've ignored everything you've been told so far.
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Post by diet otaku on Jul 15, 2006 2:42:03 GMT
congratulations, now you're a troll AND a spammer.
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Post by mrflibble on Jul 15, 2006 19:42:45 GMT
The reason i just said "lol" was that all i have got since i joined this forum is abuse so i just typed that as i was fed up with it , and all because i have my own way of doing things that you dont seem to agree with. ok rant over anyway i would like to point out that so far i have witnessed the male breeding with at least two of the females and probably with the third too i the 90 day clock is ticking
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Post by deguqueen on Jul 15, 2006 21:02:43 GMT
I'm just wondering what your planning on doing with all of these babied once they are born? Are you planning on keeping them, selling them, giving them away?
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Post by diet otaku on Jul 15, 2006 21:03:15 GMT
you've gotten what you've gotten because since you joined this forum all you've posted is the many ways in which you are treating your animals poorly. this isn't a matter of differing opinions, we're telling you that what you're doing to your degus is BAD FOR THEM. it is not a subject that is open for debate. you're getting this treatment because what you are doing is the equivalent of going to the doctor's office, the doctor telling you to stop x, y and z, and you coming back to the doctor going "look how many times i did x, y and z since my last visit! " you are BLATANTLY disregarding the FACTUAL KNOWLEDGE we are trying to share with you, and then you're shocked and outraged at how shocked and outraged we are. we are not interested in hearing how you are ABUSING your animals by feeding them sugar, or breeding 3 females at the same time. do you realize that if your male does, in fact, impregnate all three of your females, and they all have large litters, you could be dealing with TWENTY-SEVEN babies? are you prepared to raise and care for TWENTY-SEVEN degus for the next FIVE TO TEN YEARS? because i can guarantee you're not going to find new homes for them all. for all intents and purposes you are the degu equivalent of a puppy mill. stop acting like we should be excited for you. never in my life have i seen so much willful ignorance from one person.
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Post by deguqueen on Jul 15, 2006 21:13:48 GMT
Somebody please tell me that this guy is joking? The SPCA is whatever area you live in should be banging down your door. What you are supposedly doing to your pets is animal cruelty. It's not bad enough that you want to kill the 4 degus you have now, but you want to kill off all the babies they have?
I seriously don't think somebody who owns degus would come on a degu forum and boast about how they enjoy giving their degus "sugar cubes". Either way this person should be shot. I think this person is just trying to pee people off. If he is actually serious about it (which I highly doubt), I feel VERY, VERY, VERY sorry for his animals. This is why I didn't give away any of the babies Yoshi and Gizmo had. I don't trust people with them because so many are just THAT ignorant.
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Post by mrflibble on Jul 16, 2006 21:09:37 GMT
How do you know this hmmm?? are you a clairvoyant?
deguqueen that says everything i need to know about your character (very violent minded) not someone that should "look after animals" NO WAY!
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Hanlou
Burrowing Degu
Basil
Posts: 284
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Post by Hanlou on Jul 16, 2006 23:07:30 GMT
Some people feel very passionately about animals and when they hear about people who couldn't care less they get angry..........I don't think you're in any position to tell someone that they shouldn't look after animals.
Regarding the babies, I can tell you that here in the Uk, (no idea where you are based) degus aren't easy to home, they aren't popular pets yet, and people find them boring because of their colour. People are also put off by their need for a specialised diet etc.
My three were in a rescue for a good long time before I rehomed them.
I have seen this scenario time and time again. It usually ends up with some rescue or other, or some soft-hearted person clearing up the mess people like you create, whether that means taking in the babies you can't find homes for, or people having large vet bills and lots of heartache because their ill-bred degu is sick / dies young etc.
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Post by diet otaku on Jul 16, 2006 23:18:19 GMT
How do you know this hmmm?? are you a clairvoyant? it's called EXPERIENCE. the degus i adopted came from a group of TWENTY-SIX rescues. i adopted 4. and i went to that pet shop often enough that i doubt anyone else adopted any, certainly not as many as i did. the store was GIVING THEM AWAY, that's how hard it was to get people to take them. degus are NOT a popular pet, no matter where you live, and rehoming one litter has proven troublesome enough for many a degu owner. you're acting like you'll be able to get rid of three litters in a matter of days. but you know what they say, ignorance is bliss... if there is anyone here who should not be looking after animals, it is YOU. it does not make one violent-minded to wish bad things on people who treat animals poorly. any normal person would react the same way to someone who abuses a dog, what you are doing to your degus is no different. the fact that you refuse to accept what anyone tells you as being good for your animals only makes the situation worse. i still don't know why you even bothered posting here if you're simply going to give the finger to everyone here by rubbing in our faces how you are mistreating your animals.
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Post by deguqueen on Jul 17, 2006 12:08:44 GMT
If you came here just to cause trouble with the sugar thing, you should get a life. If you are serious about giving your degus "sugar cubes", you are knowingly letting them ingest poisonous candy. Does that not click in to you? You are killing them slowly. So yes, if what you say you are doing is true, you are being cruel to your animals. I really doubt that when your animals start to lose weight, stop eating, go blind and cant even lift their own heads, you will take them to a vet. You're disgustingly ignorant and what goes around comes around. I just wish that morons like you were banned from having animals.
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Post by deguqueen on Jul 17, 2006 12:19:22 GMT
Why is this person not banned yet? Diet was right. He is coming on here bragging about how he is abusing his animals. He has all the information he needs on this site and yet he doesn't use it to help his animals. He's just trying to pee everybody off on here and he has succeeded. I'm wondering if hes so dumb that he gives his degus molasses and sugar cubes, how is he able to sex the degus. How will he sex the babies? He wont. He'll just end up with 30 babies on his hands and they will end up in a shelter, they wont get adopted and they will die shortly after from the crap hes been feeding them. And how should I not own animals? I took the time to read up on degus before I got them. I waited six months before I got any and when one got sick, I paid through my butt to try to do anything possible for her just as I did recently and just as I would if any of them got sick. I go out of my way to prevent them from getting any illnesses so they have a good life. And here you are feeding them sugar cubes when you know that they are sugar intolerant. Breeding them when you know nothing about them. You're disgusting and I do think you should be treated in the same way. I think people like you should be punished more severely than a couple days in jail. Why dont you tell everybody where you live so we can call the SPCA on you and they can decide if your treating your animals right?
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Post by diet otaku on Jul 17, 2006 16:48:46 GMT
he's been banned. meg's on holiday right now, so she walked her mum through banning him. *throws confetti* ;D
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Post by deguqueen on Jul 17, 2006 18:10:38 GMT
***HALLELUJAH!!!!!*** Can regular mods not ban? I thought they could. I really hope that person was just on here to get us worked up. He succeeded but I just hope he didn't have any animals after the way he bragged about mistreating them. The sad thing is that there are far too many people out there who get degus and do feed them improper food. I personally don't think they are a good childrens pet as they don't often like to be handled and because they are so much work and there is so much to know about them.
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Post by diet otaku on Jul 17, 2006 19:01:56 GMT
meg says i should be able to ban, but i couldn't find that tool anywhere. the only options i see on my screen are for editing posts, moving topics, and making stickies/announcements.
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Post by Aimeelou on Jul 18, 2006 11:40:22 GMT
I was going to oppologise to everyone for my little outburst but as ive read on ive realise what an ignorant prat he is. but THANK THE LORD HES GONE im trying to pack up smoking so this realy aint helping!
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