Hi (Newbie here, & advice wanted)

[randomname]

Hello everyone, thought it's about time I registered & introduced myself & my gang. 

Currently with me are Stan (10year old JR dog), Minnie (3year old terrier cross from Romania), Eddie (3yr old FIV+ cat), Zak, Janis & Joni (10year old male rabbit & his playboy girly bunnies who are only 5! Shocking!), Jon Bon Gerbil (geriatric zombie gerbil) & an as yet unnamed male degu. All rescued, all adopted for life!

I have adopted rats, mice, hamsters, a chinchilla, guinea pigs, gerbils, rabbits, cats & dogs over the last 20 years.  

I adopted a colony of 5 male degus from the RSPCA years ago. I din't know much about degus, but did a lot of research, often ending up on this forum. They sadly passed away a few years ago, after around 9 years & I assumed I'd be degu free forever.

However last week my vet rang to say they had had a lone male handed in "found wandering in the park" - as they knew I had kept degus & rescue all sorts of animals they asked did I want him. Yup, go on then! He's lovely, really huge ears, quite a big boy. He's now in a huge 6ft cage, lots of room & toys.
I have 8 types of hay, dried blossoms & grasses, fenugreek crunchies etc & 2 types of degu food but I can't seem to tempt him to eat much. He has no idea what hay is! He ignores the nuggets. He must be eating something as there are some poops, but not enough for my liking. I have seen him nibble on a few things, can't see any problems with teeth or eating. I have seen his front teeth, they look fine (& his tiny little tongue sqeeeeeeee!) but I obviously can't see the back teeth without the vet's help. He's drinking fine. He has eaten a bit of fresh herbs (parsley & basil) 
So, I guess the question is do you think it's due to the shock of being in a park (although I doubt that story) or just being somewhere new, & is a week long enough to let him settle in? After how many weeks should I take him to the vets for a dental check? He doesn't look ill, lethargic or in pain at all. Just a little underweight, otherwise looks fine. I don't want to stress him by taking him to the vets if all he needs is more time.

[deguconvert]

You know it wouldn't hurt to have him looked at. If he is already a little under weight, you don't want that to snowball on you and get out of control. Though, you might be able to call them and ask if they did a complete dental inspection on him before he was given into your care. If they did inspect molars, then he won't have to go through that again. Have you tried any seeds or nuts to tempt him at all? Or even plain porridge oats?

[randomname]

    so, here's his new home

[randomname]

Hi Deguconvert, thanks for your reply.
The vet said they did a quick check, but they could of missed something I guess? He didn't eat at all for 2 days, but has gradually eaten more (& pooped more) every day. Am worried the stress will set him back. He's still terrified (but friendly).
I'd feel better if he ate some hay! have mixed all sorts in with it - fresh herbs, fenugreek crunchies, nibble ears, ribwort, blossoms, green oats, dried herb mix, dandelion root. He seems to bury the food he likes, ignores the nuggets & poops on the hay.
I can't actually see any thing to indicate tooth problems - no drooling or wet fur, no head tilting, squinted eyes & no problems eating or drinking. He looks better than he did a week ago, but I'm still going to worry ('cos that's what I do!)
I suspect he has had cage mates & has been dumped as the last one surviving because they couldn't be bothered (vet thinks so too) so it could be more a case of being sad, lonely & scared instead. I mean, how does someone spot a lone degu in a park, catch it & take it home? Seems unlikely. Plus he STANK (I mean from several feet away) of poo & wee & unclean living conditions.
I think I might keep a close eye on him, monitor his food intake to make sure it still goes up & take him for a check on Monday if no real improvement.
How do you cure a broken, scared heart?

Oh & do you know if oats with added bran are safe for him? That's all I've got in at the moment. Also I have plain cheerios - would one be ok?

[deguconvert]

I don't think that the added bran should be a problem at all. Just in case though, be moderate in the amount you give him. Plain cheerios . . . the actual food/nutritional value of that cereal for him is really nothing. Is there any sugar content in it? You don't want to be giving him anything sweetened. Finding that extra special thing that he can't resist coming to get is a really good way to help him begin to overcome his fear. Sooo many foods that can be powerfully attractive to degus. So, try small bits of almonds, walnut, pecan, brazil nut, hazelnut, sunflower seed, sesame seed (great for calcium content), hemp seeds, chia seeds, fennel, celery, niger, and so many I can't pull out of my brain at the moment. My degus loved tomato paste (no sugar or salt in it) and would lick it eagerly off any stick or surface, Our Diet and Nutrition board has several threads (stickied) that have tons of items to help any owner customise their feeding style, or to tempt their degu to eat new or better foods.

Your poor little guy sounds like he has been through a terrible trauma and he just can't decide if he can believe or accept the change and improvement in his conditions. I think that frequently talking to him in a soft, low tone voice will help him get used to you. Frequently offering tiny pieces of whatever he loves to eat, also a great way to win trust and points with him. Don't move quickly around him. Let him adjust to your home, the sights, sounds, and smells that are part of his new place. It could take him a bit longer than you might normally expect since he has had difficult time prior to the vets and your place. So, take it slow, and prove to him daily, frequently through the day, that you are trustworthy, and he will eventually begin to believe it.

[yasmin]

Welcome to the forum randomname. Love the name Jon Bon Gerbil (I too adopt abandoned pets and give them a stable loving forever home – for me it's budgies and pocket pets like degus, gerbils and mice.)

This degu is very fortunate to be in your care. I second all that deguconvert has advised.I have had degus where the only sign of dental problems was selective eating. For mine, when they refuse sunflower seeds I know there is something terribly wrong. If you check his weight every few days then that could indicate whether he is eating enough or not. If he loses weight in the next week or so, I would have his molars checked for spurs.

Have you tried fresh plant leaves like dandelion, a small piece of carrot or sweet potato, or thawed frozen peas? Hulled sesame seeds are another food that degus that might have teeth issues will usually gobble up. Mine all also love Versele-Laga Herb Crock Nature treats – easy to eat especially when split into four pieces.

[moletteuk]

Well done for taking him in

He's probably stressed and bewildered out of his mind, and I find that this can really affect their appetite. I would try him on some high calorie stuff just to ascertain ASAP if he is having a problem eating or its just that he is stressed. When my degus are poorly and off their food the things they still like to eat are plain grains and oil seeds, nuts, dried veg plus their favourite forage. So millet and oats or barley, oil seeds like hemp, sesame, safflower, any small pieces of nuts, dried veg like flat peas, carrot, peppers, beetroot - this is no good for a long term diet, but for a couple of days as a trial and to get his gut moving it is worth doing. Keep going with hay and forage, maybe try some fresh grass, or readigrass, fresh dandelions, they have such varied tastes you might need to try a lot of things to find what will tempt him. Look out for any preferences or him rejecting anything harder or fiddly to eat that might indicate teeth issues.

We have nutrition charts which list loads of safe things to try:
deguworld.proboards.com/thread/15602/vegetable-seed-nut-nutrition-charts

Plain oats with plain bran added are OK, but leave the cheerios.

[randomname]

Thanks for all the ideas deguconvert, lots of ideas to try him with there. I have some sesame seeds will try that this morning. He has started sitting on his perch when I go in, so I try him with little bits of food or treats. He's willing to (very cautiously) take from me, but he hides it, won't eat in front of me. He ate a tiny bit of cucumber last night. I guess I just keep trying anything - I'll have a look on those threads you mentioned, thank you. I am pretty impatient, I just want him to chill & get better. I've spent time talking to him but I don't think he understands when I tell him he's safe! He's not hiding so much now & will interact through the bars, so it's a start.

Hi Yasmin, good to meet you. Love your 'photo. I have had chins & g.pigs with teeth problems, but it was very obvious. I guess it can be more subtle. Like deguconvert said, it won't hurt to check (unless he bites the vet lol) I am definitely going to have him looked at on Monday unless there is a dramatic improvement. I have tried fresh herbs which he did eat. I have some celery, carrot & tomatoes in the 'fridge as well as some frozen peas so I'll try tiny portions of those over the next few days. He likes fenugreek crunchies, but prefers me to break them up, which makes me wonder about his teeth, nothing else to suggest it though.

Have to admit, I now remember why I was in no hurry to adopt degus again! The 3 types of animals that have caused me most worry (& vets bills) were the 5 degus, Dave the chinchilla & Carolyn the guinea pig - all teeth related. My bunnies have all had good teeth luckily. Oh & the poop - i did not miss sweeping & hoovering ten times a day! Worth it to help this little guy of course, but wouldn't have gone looking for it. Gerbils are so much easier, so much less poop, no health problems! Ah well, at least he's in a nice house, plenty of food & toys, cleaned & cared for & already part of the family. No matter what happens, that's a good thing for him.

I guess it may be time to start thinking of a name? The last 5 were named King Rodrigo, Jesus, Diego, Grandad & Baby. I quite like BB (for big boy) but he's not big enough to call him that yet (given how big his ears are, he may fill out to be a chunky kind of guy) I am terrible at names - I once named 2 dwarf hamsters Nine & Ten, & guinea pigs called Top, Middle & Bottom!Oh & hairless rats called Bitey & Scratchy (they weren't, they were the sweetest guys I've ever met) Any suggestions are welcome - one of my kids suggested Parky!

[randomname]

Hi moletteuk - I see we're not so far from each other, I'm in County Durham. Well done for taking him in, haha I wasn't going to say no was I?
I agree, by his body language & how quiet he is, that he's absolutely bewildered. How long do you think it'll take for him to settle down a bit? I guess it varies due to personality, but as I said, I'm impatient, I want answers! I have tried millet, he didn't eat much. I'll try everything I can, would spring greens be ok do you think? I have tried readigrass, always have some in for the bunnies. I wish he'd listen when I explain the importance of hay, he's worse than my kids! I literally ordered everything zooplus had that was suitable for degus - spent a fortune (but the bunnies & gerbils eat them too, so it won't go to waste) He does quite like the JR Farm degu snack, so am mixing that with hay for now. There's straw in his nesting box, so hopefully he'll have a nibble at that too. Like you said, anything to get his guts moving. I had a bunny die of stasis, & Carolyn guinea pig had to be syringe fed for 2 years before she died, so I live in terror of it. Keeps me awake at night. I do see more poops every day, but they are a little small. I will celebrate the day I see a "proper" poop pellet!!

[randomname]

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! To everyone that suggested sesame seeds, thank you! Gave him about half a teaspoon, he munched them all happily. He ate off the spoon, but was very nervous & jumpy so I put them down & he tucked in, ate the lot. He actually looked really happy for a minute. Lets hope he likes more things soon. This has made me so happy I can't tell you 

[Bexi87]

Sesame could be the name

[moletteuk]

Excellent

Obviously stasis can kill degus, but it does seem to me like there is a little bit more of a grace period for degus than for rabbits or guinea pigs, and if you can work out what food they love they will often continue to eat a little bit of those foods in times of stress, I think it works in our favour that they can eat such a variety of foods too.

*waves to fellow proper northerner* lol!

[randomname]

He seems to like nuts too. He's definitely eating, but seems to only do it when alone. He's not eating much hay or nuggets, but all the snacks get eaten. I assume he has been fed a mix feed in the past, but not hay. Today I'm going to do a total clean of his cage - I'm a bit worried how he'll react. He seems to be freaked out by everything, hope he doesn't get too upset. Will keep a little bedding to reassure him.
Next question I've got for you all is how can I reassure him & calm him? He does like to interact through he bars & he'll take snacks, but everything else seems to scare him. Have been adding chamomile to his hay. Can degus eat lavender plants?
Oh & I watched him "talking" to Jon Bon Gerbil yesterday! He hasn't made much noise so far, but when he saw Jon running about he was squeaking over & over for about five minutes. not in alarm or anger, just "talking". Makes me think he definitely has had cage mates at some point. I really think he's been in a duo recently, his friend has died & the owner has handed him into vets with a made up story. Poor little guy. Maybe the best thing I can do for him is look for a friend to adopt, or do you think I should give him a bit more time to settle down?

[winic1]

If you haven't done it yet, I'd go lightly on the cage cleaning. Don't scrub away all traces of his scent. Don't change all the substrate, toss it lightly to let the poops drop out, and leave the rest as is, taking out only wet, soiled parts. Wipe off pee and dried pee spots, but don't wash them away. He needs his home to become familiar to him, and if you take away his scent, it won't be. If the dust in his dust bath is messed up, dump it, but don't wash the bath, just wipe out any damp stuff and then refill with clean dust. This will keep it plenty clean enough that you won't be bothered by any odor, but leave it familiar enough to let him know it is still his new home.

I've found that by doing this sort of light cleaning, we have much, much less problems with our boys going back into dominance fighting after a cage cleaning. Only places that are truly becoming disgustingly dirty get washed completely clean, and never the whole cage at one time. If we replace the entire amount of substrate on a level, I take a few handfuls of sifted stuff from another level and mix it in, so it still smells like "home". Has made a huge difference in keeping their hierarchy stable, which means (since I know right now you only have 1 degu) that it is not disruptive to their home and life.

[moletteuk]

I think only time and patience, and slow movements from you and working out what foods he loves that you can bribe him with will help him to settle. Lavender is safe but he isn't likely to like it. Have you tried offering kitchen or toilet paper for him to build a nest, some degus love nesting.

He is going to need a friend so I can't see any harm in putting this in motion and seeing what other degus are out there looking for a home. If he is used to being in a pair or group and has just lost his best friend and been mistreated or neglected then it is going to take him quite a long tim e to settle, if you can find the right friend(s) for him it could really help him through. It probably won't be simple though, have you seen our intro guides?
deguworld.proboards.com/thread/17619/deguconverts-detailed-introductions-fighting-guide
deguworld.proboards.com/thread/17618/introductions-fighting-quick-guide

[randomname]

Oh moletteuk, I can't tell you how scared I am about doing introductions - when my previous 5 boys got into fights I used to get really freaked out! I have 3 rabbits I bonded - first time bonding any small animal. Rabbits can kill each other too, & my 8 years old Zak had been an aggressive problem bunny who had always lived alone, attacking people & other rabbits. I was so scared they'd hurt each other, but the 2 girls were amazing. They let him throw tantrums until he calmed down & gave up! I had them all together in a tiny pen in my kitchen. I slept on the floor, never left them alone & had a sheet of wood to use to separate them if they fought. One week (!) later, it was settled & Zak was is love!! Never thought I'd see that. They have been together for nearly 3 years now, still very much in love & Zak is so happy - makes me cry to see him demanding grooming from the girls & them playing & cuddling together. Because of this, I know I have to give this little degu a chance to have friends, wish I'd done it years ago with Zak. The only experience I have is when 2 of my previous five had to be split off from the rest due to fighting, then reintroduced. Also, one of mine had to have a front paw amputated, after recovery we had to reintroduce him to the other 3. They obviously already knew each other but it was scary. I have no idea how it'll go with a stranger, but I have another cage I can put side by side so I'm not too worried about that bit - it's the face to face meetings that freak me out. Oh well, I'll have to do it, but I can't say I'm looking forward to it. Least I can come on here & you guys can calm me down when I'm freaking out I suppose :-)

[Bexi87]

Jun 15, 2016 15:01:42 GMT randomname said:

Least I can come on here & you guys can calm me down when I'm freaking out I suppose :-)

That's exactly what we are here for

[moletteuk]

I think all that experience will really stand you in good stead, and being set up to do side by side cages will be a big help. If you are really nervous you could consider neutering him and getting him a girlfriend or two, it's quite an invasive operation, but it's still an option.

How's he doing now, any progress?

[randomname]

I've been toying with the idea of girlfriends, but haven't found a vet I'm 100% comfortable with for such a huge op. Been reading about the interior testes, so it seems like a really big deal, so I thought boy friends might be better. Is it almost guaranteed that he'll get on with girls if he's neutered? What are the odds of him not getting along with boys? I need some maths to make a decision!

He seems much better these last few days. He's eating enough snacks that I know he'll live - but still need to get him eating hay & proper food. He seems to like people & interacts with my sons & me. He seems bright & well. Something in his body language is suggesting he's not 100% happy though, not pining exactly, but lonely. Getting him a friend is the priority now I think.

Have had an awful morning - Jon Bon Gerbil had a stroke, rushed him to vets at 8am when I found him (in my p.j's!). Vet said she thought he has cancer as he was underweight & had crackly lungs. Had to let him go. We think he was around 6, so that's a good innings, but that doesn't make it better. I tell myself not to get so attached, these are rescues, it'll happen & I have to toughen up. I have had so many little ones & they don't last forever (hammies & mice are the worst) but every single one has taken a bit of my heart. I don't think I have much left anymore. Always end up feeling guilty, like I should have some sort of magic cure. I told the vet money no object, do whatever we had to do, but she said it would be cruel. Poor little guy. He was so lovely, like all the gerbils I've known, just sweet & friendly & lovely. They deserve so much longer, it's not fair.

Can't talk about it with most of my family/friends - they say things like "just get another one, they're only a fiver" or "He had a good life" or "he had a good innings" or "it was just a gerbil" or whatever. People don't get the bond you form with these little guys is no different from any other animal, even human animals. Love is love. Feels like I've lost a friend, nothing can replace him, he was unique.

[Bexi87]

Oh no, I'm so sorry