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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2016 0:30:42 GMT
I work at a locally owned Pet Store and we had a family of Degus dropped off as a surrender with absolutely no history. The mother had 4 babies and now 5 days later all are dead but 1. From all the research I have done it appears the baby is about 3 or 4 weeks old and I am 90% sure it is a female. It is still nursing (when the mother let's it) but the mother runs away usually. We think this may be her first litter but we are unsure we have no information on them. I want to pull the baby and hand feed it to try and prevent another death but I am unsure. Most information says they need to learn social interactions from the parents and I have no other Degus to place the baby with. I am ring to see if we can order one as a cage mate but it will take over a week to get it in if that fast. Any advice?? We have plenty of food and veggies in the cage and around the cage as well as water but the mother simply wants nothing to do with the baby most of the time. Any help would be amazing!!!
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Post by Maravilla on Mar 29, 2016 6:32:45 GMT
If the baby is 3-4 weeks old, there is no need to hand feed it. Degus start to eat normal food at a very early age. Degu moms only nurse until a maximum of 4 weeks. And, this might be the most important information of you, this is not done all day round but only 2-3 times a day. Can you try to weigh the baby to see if it is gaining weight? The dead babies can have several reasons. It is very sad but often there is little you can do about it.
What kind of food are you feeding? Is mom the only adult or is dad also in the group? This would be the biggest problem right now.
Can you post a picture of the baby? Maybe we can help you to check the estimated age.
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Post by Bexi87 on Mar 29, 2016 7:10:58 GMT
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Post by moletteuk on Mar 29, 2016 10:09:53 GMT
I don't see why you couldn't offer extra feeds but leave the baby in with its mum, as long as the rejection doesn't go further. Degu mums don't usually mind human handling of their babies, so I think it should be possible to do a quick feed and then return the baby to the cage. You can also try some more tempting foods than pellets and veg to encourage the baby onto hard food, they should be getting a variety of forage and seeds including oil seeds, also nuts would be good at the moment, you could sprinkle a little wheatgerm and oats for the baby. More info on feeding here: deguworld.proboards.com/thread/16425/degu-feeding-guide |
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Post by Maravilla on Mar 29, 2016 10:39:54 GMT
I think it should be possible to do a quick feed and then return the baby to the cage. Do you mean feeding normal stuff or milk? At the age of 4 weeks I would not risk health problems which would probably result when feeding milk. There is just no need for it. Of course you can offer normal stuff, but if the degu is eating on its own and gaining weight (so you have to check it every couple of days), why take him out to feed him? |
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Post by moletteuk on Mar 29, 2016 16:41:37 GMT
I was trying to make the point if the baby was younger than thought and milk feeds were appropriate, then they don't need to permanently separate the baby to do this.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2016 1:30:44 GMT
 It will only allow me to add 1 picture. She weighs 1.6 grams. She keeps trying to stay underneath her mother but the mother keeps running away. I added some varied nuts, dried veggie blend and some seeds. The previous owner had them on chinchilla food with some grass but I don't know what kind and we have none left. We bought a small animal forage seed mix and we are keeping fresh collards, carrots, peas and green beans in the cage as well. |
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Post by uglibug on Mar 30, 2016 8:03:05 GMT
The nuts and seeds will help her gain weight quickly. Do you have a heat pad? It may encourage them all to lie down together and stay warm.
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Post by Maravilla on Mar 30, 2016 8:54:20 GMT
The weight can't be right. Please check again. (The 2 of the litter I had weighed 25g on the 4th day.) The baby looks quite young but is not skinny as far as I can see. I would offer soft stuff (but no extra milk as mommy still has some) and check the weight about twice per week.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2016 23:29:01 GMT
I weighed her again today as did a coworker and she weighs 16 grams. I have her with me right now and she keeps running calling for her mom. I put a hearing pad under the cage and transfered them to a smaller cage since the baby escaped yesterday and this way the baby has a better chance of getting attention from mom. But I am still worried. The baby keeps acting weird kind of lethargic and I am unsure how much solid food she is actually eating.
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Post by moletteuk on Apr 1, 2016 12:46:39 GMT
I don't have baby experience so I'm limited in how I can help, I don't know what the issue is that Maravilla refers to with top up feeding of something like kitten milk (shirleys lactol is mentioned on degutopia). Perhaps you could consider topping her up with syringe feeds of Oxbow Critical Care, you could even mix in some sugar free nut butter to boost the fat content that babies need. I would recommend asking a vet for advice, they may be able to help you over the phone. The baby looks quite young/ small to me, perhaps if you have a good look through the threads in this section of the forum you will see some development photos at different ages that you could compare.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2016 13:07:12 GMT
I have looked and searched for threads referring to baby's weight and growth and so far have not been able to find anything solid. I messaged a few people and posted on other threads but nothing back yet. I am very ery worried the baby will die and I do ot want that! I looked at critical care but it was not for rodents or their type of family so I stayed away from it.
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Post by Maravilla on Apr 1, 2016 16:16:13 GMT
I don't know what the issue is that Maravilla refers to with top up feeding of something like kitten milk (shirleys lactol is mentioned on degutopia). Hand feeding degus is not an easy topic as the wrong milk (or a change in it) can cause severe intestinal problems. Diarrhoea in this situation would be probably letal. What I consider worrying is that you say that she only weighs 16g (in this case she would be very young, far younger than you think, or runt) and that she is not gaining weight. On the other thread, I gave you the weight of my babies at different ages. Here are some pictures of the same animal. At 2 weeks and at 4 weeks.   But actually, the more I compare the pictures, I think that your photo looks more than this one:  and here she is only 1 week old. I really hope, that I am wrong! edit: I asked a friend of mine with more experience what she thinks about the age. I am still waiting for her answer. |
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Post by moletteuk on Apr 1, 2016 17:53:14 GMT
Thanks Maravilla.
Herbivore Critical Care is suitable for degus for short periods, whether it is suitable for a baby in these circumstances you should probably ask a vet. You could try making your own emergency food from crushed dried leaves, vegetable baby food (or mashed veg), nut butter, optional ground up seeds, optional ground oats. It needs to be very smooth and have water added to syringe, or just shape into balls if the baby eats it voluntarily.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2016 0:10:31 GMT
We moved the cage and keep it covered most of the time to help prevent the mother from getting distracted and avoiding the baby, so that has helped but I am still worried. I looked at the critical care and it has cane molasses in it as well as some fruits so I was worried it would cause health issues later on due to the amount of sugar. It is so hard to find weight and size information on babies so I have nothing to reference. We have had the babies a week and they were born prior to being given to us but how long before I do not know.
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Post by Maravilla on Apr 2, 2016 7:02:30 GMT
It is so hard to find weight and size information on babies so I have nothing to reference. We have had the babies a week and they were born prior to being given to us but how long before I do not know. Yesterday you posted on this thread ( deguworld.proboards.com/thread/13132/weight-degus-gain-grow?page=1&scrollTo=132700) and I put you some information and my personal experience. Have you already checked the table? My friends suggest feeding with milk as she also considers the animal younger than 3 weeks. Moletteuk already posted an option. It is very important not to change the composition once you started feeding it. Do you know something about the age of the mother? Is she fully grown or pretty young (younger than 12 months)? That she does not spend the whole day with the baby is normal. Degus are precocial animals. The babies leave the nest very early and start to discover their environment. There are hours which the babies spend in the nest sleeping, but the mother is not always there with them. I am not sure if your mother is really distracted. I think she spends enough time with the baby. If this does not gain weight, it is possible that the mother does not have enough milk. |
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Post by uglibug on Apr 2, 2016 8:28:32 GMT
The baby looks much younger than four weeks, it looks 2 maybe 3 weeks at most. I think offering milk may be worth while, or maybe some vegetable baby food in a syringe just to top up what mum is providing. 16g is very small so high calorie food will help and the heat pad is good. Try and let mum do most of the work, baby is fine on its own for several hours and mum needs to eat and exercise herself.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2016 5:01:19 GMT
Sorry it did not show you replied on the thread so I just saw it. What type of milk should I use? Kitten, puppy, marsupial? Should I use critical care or just some milk or baby food?
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Post by uglibug on Apr 3, 2016 8:12:49 GMT
Try offering some vegetable baby food on a small spoon, make sure it is a bit runny. It will help baby put weight on.
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Post by moletteuk on Apr 4, 2016 15:35:11 GMT
If the baby has survived this long without extra milk, then it sounds like extra milk is not necessary.
Despite the molasses Critical Care is safe for a few days, or veg only baby food, or a homemade soft mix as described above are all options. Critical Care contains everything in safe proportions, you can adjust a homemade mix and add some fat content with nut butter, or veg baby food is simple and quick, just pick an option and try it! Keep an eye on how she responds and quality of the poop.
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