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Post by yasmin on Jun 10, 2015 21:44:43 GMT
Starting this thread to document the following:
Two of my degus, Meiyo and Jin (both 4 months shy of 4 years old) have started this odd jaw-adjusting behaviour after eating hard food. They eat, then they open their jaws really wide (I can see all of their teeth and their tongues) and move the lower jaw back and forth. It looks like their jaw is stuck but I wondered if their tongues are getting caught on spurs or something.
So I took Meiyo (she is demonstrating this behaviour more drastically than Jin) to the vet last week. He saw only a few beginning spurs – nothing that would warrant the jaw-adjusting behaviour. Thought maybe it might be a behavoural issue since two degus are doing this or perhaps some sort of temporal mandibular dysfunction. So, I am taking Meiyo in on Friday for him to remove those small spurs and for him to get a closer look to see what is going on with her. Let's see what comes of this (will the removal of spurs be enough? will he find some other issue?)
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Post by moletteuk on Jun 11, 2015 10:09:06 GMT
I don't remember coming across anything like this before, it does sound odd. Good luck for Friday.
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Post by deguconvert on Jun 11, 2015 13:53:16 GMT
I have seen this behavior as well with our eldest degus, but it resolved rather quickly so I didn't pursue what was going on. I will be watching this with interest.
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Post by animalmadchloe on Jun 26, 2015 7:36:40 GMT
Mr grey and Al will do this when they have a spur that's growing at the back of the mouth and they sort of wriggle there tongue about
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Post by yasmin on Jun 29, 2015 20:48:21 GMT
Not sure if the spur removal remedied this behaviour or not. Didn't see the behaviour right after Meiyo had the spurs removed but either Meiyo or Jin is doing it again. The beet juice I marked Jin's foot with has disappeared so now I can't tell them apart. Also, this morning one of the two seemed unable to chew on a piece of puffed rice. Have booked another appointment with the vet on Thursday. Wish I could figure out who is who again. Mr grey and Al will do this when they have a spur that's growing at the back of the mouth and they sort of wriggle there tongue about This makes sense. So, using your experience with Mr Grey and Al, I will assume that whoever is doing the jaw adjusting is Jin since Meiyo would have had all spurs removed. Then I just have to figure out if the same one is now having issues eating or if Meiyo is experiencing some other problem not related to her teeth. (I so hope she doesn't bloat up like Chuugi did. )
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Post by animalmadchloe on Jun 30, 2015 11:24:48 GMT
They also do.this after eating food that gets stuck at the back of the mouth presuming on the spurs... U know mr grey is due soon see a trim as he's started doing it xx
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Post by yasmin on Jun 30, 2015 16:21:24 GMT
Had to take her to the vet this morning – no waiting until Thursday. She's looking scary skinny. She tried to eat but couldn't eat much, and when she did open her mouth it stayed open with her flailing her tongue about and desperately trying to close the mouth. This went on for 3+ minutes each time. She also was all puffed up and lay her mouth onto the saucer wheel while the others ran it. This morning I found her with a wad of paper towel under her chin.
Vet determined that it is Jin, not Meiyo. She weighs only 157 g. He removed a spur way at the back of her mouth that was digging into her tongue. He said it took him and two assistants to hold Jin's mouth wide enough open to do the procedure because the spur was in a very difficult place to get to. But it's done now. Got her home. She was still a bit groggy and in visible discomfort but I had to leave to go to work. Fortunately tomorrow is a public holiday (Canada Day) and my husband and I have booked Thursday and Friday off of work so I will have time to keep an eye on her.
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Post by deguconvert on Jul 1, 2015 5:58:32 GMT
Poor Jin!! I am so sorry!! I hope her night goes well and that she is feeling better in the morning. Do let us know how she is doing?
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Post by yasmin on Jul 3, 2015 3:39:14 GMT
She had a rough day yesterday. I fed her whatever she could eat. Today, she's doing much better. Though I still find her puffed up at times, she is eating most foods.
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Post by moletteuk on Jul 3, 2015 10:18:26 GMT
Sorry I didn't see this, I'm glad she is doing a little better now. You are lucky you have such a great vet, it's really easy to damage the jaw hinge when they have to open the mouth really wide.
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Post by deguconvert on Jul 3, 2015 18:33:26 GMT
Oh OUCH!! I just cringe thinking of this. I am glad she is doing better today too!!
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Post by yasmin on Jul 5, 2015 0:08:49 GMT
Sorry I didn't see this, I'm glad she is doing a little better now. You are lucky you have such a great vet, it's really easy to damage the jaw hinge when they have to open the mouth really wide. I didn't know this. I will keep an eye on her – hopefully there was no damage to her jaw hinge.
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Post by yasmin on Aug 7, 2015 20:49:48 GMT
Oh no. Maybe there is damage to her jaw hinge! Meiyo has continued to have the jaw trouble and last night I found her with two wet cheeks, and all puffed up and hiding. She looks miserable and couldn't eat even a piece of puffed rice. It's like her jaw gets stuck on open and it must be excruciatingly painful (just like temporal mandibular disorder) when that happens because she is frantic to get it shut again. Have offered her Metacam on a thawed pea like I do for Lilac but Meiyo just turns her nose up at it. Will be trying to figure a way to get that into her as soon as I get home from work. Soonest appointment I could get with my preferred vet is Monday at noon. I so hope I can keep her nourished – this morning she ate a couple of sunflower seeds I shelled for her and some wee bits of peanuts. This is going to be a very stressful few days not to say anything about the fear I will feel when I take her in on Monday. I am beginning to tumble into a state of despair – my poor goos.
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Post by moletteuk on Aug 8, 2015 11:04:49 GMT
You are doing everything you can. If they still have pain and discomfort sometimes it is purely due to the difficult odds stacked against them of their genetics, which you can't do anything about. You are giving them a brilliant life, their rubbish genes are being balanced out in that they got super lucky in being looked after by the top 1% of caring degu owners.
Has she been better in the meantime, has her weight been stable? Just hang in there, collect information for the vet but try not to second guess what is going on too much. Hope you can get her to take the metacam. Have you tried mashed or baby food?
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Post by deguconvert on Aug 9, 2015 21:42:18 GMT
Hey Yamin! I am so sorry she is having so much difficulty, and I know it is painful for you as well. How is she doing today?
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Post by yasmin on Aug 10, 2015 15:07:16 GMT
Just hang in there, collect information for the vet but try not to second guess what is going on too much. OK. I do try and second guess too much. She was better on the weekend – she could eat a bit more. Had already booked the day off of work so I kept the vet appointment. Will be leaving soon; will ask if an x-ray might help shed some light on this issue.
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Post by yasmin on Aug 10, 2015 17:11:39 GMT
Back from the vet. He confirmed that Meiyo does not have an infection. He believes she is suffering from some sort of Temporal Mandibular Joint Dysfunction. An X-ray can help to confirm this but he didn't seem to think it necessary at this point.
It is probably an anatomic anomaly (which would explain why Meiyo's sister Jin also has this issue – just not so severe). For guinea pigs they can build a support to go around the jaw area to prevent it from opening too wide. For dogs they can operate to prevent the jaw from locking. For degus – not much can be done – there aren't any surgeons in this area that could do this on a degu that he could think of. I can try massaging the jaw to help the joint go back into place. That's about it. Metacam is unlikely to help. He is looking into if anyone has made a support for degus with this issue.
So, I guess I just have to pay special attention to feeding her when the condition flares up. At least I know what to do about it now.
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Post by moletteuk on Aug 11, 2015 10:32:03 GMT
OK, maybe the joint issue was aggravated a little by the teeth trimming? Have they both been doing the locked jaw thing for a while? I suppose it's better than full on damage to the jaw hinge during the teeth trimming, I hesitated to say before, but both the cases I am aware of ended with the degus being put to sleep.
Can you spot any particular foods they are struggling with?
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Post by yasmin on Aug 11, 2015 20:20:47 GMT
It was the locked-jaw thing that prompted me to take both Meiyo and Jin to the vet in the first place. Not sure which particular foods cause this. What I do know is that when it has been aggravated, almost all foods cause a problem including puffed rice. (Mien could only eat oats when presented in a bowl – not one by one. Also, she could not eat the hulled sesame seeds but she would heat the Versele-laga herb Crock and peanuts if I slivered them and sunflower seeds without the shell. It's like it needed to be not too big and not too small.) I will keep a close eye and report back on this thread if I can figure out what foods cause it. One thing for sure, that cage won't get the monthly almond or hazelnut-in-a-shell treat that the others do. The vet did not say anything about putting her to sleep. He just said that when she has an episode I should feed her wet foods by syringe if nothing else works. I will manage it with patience and observation and a variety of food types on hand at all times.
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Post by moletteuk on Aug 12, 2015 9:30:54 GMT
It was the locked-jaw thing that prompted me to take both Meiyo and Jin to the vet in the first place. Yeah, I just wondered if it had been going on much longer before the thread? I was just wondering between long term genetic jaw abnormality gradually deteriorating, or something being a trigger to make it worse, probably doesn't really help. Seems a bit odd Meiyo could eat oats out of a bowl but not individually hand fed, I wonder if it makes a difference what angle her head is at?
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