wooden v metal cages - clarification

[fred]

Just wanted to clarify something which I wrote yesterday and which could be misunderstood. English is not my first language and while I try to do my best I sometimes get it wrong, especially when I am angry – and yesterday I was hopping mad.

I should have written “metal cages, even if small and depressing”. It was not my intention to imply that anything is wrong with metal cages on principle. What is important is that degus have enough space to run around on solid surfaces and this can be achieved with both metal and wooden cages. What got me riled is the obvious prejudice on degutopia against wood cages. To me it's a bit like saying the earth is flat and I just find that disappointing for a site that is trusted by so many newcomers to the wonderful of degus .

[cazara]

Fred I think your English is very good. (I couldn't even learn French in school) and we all have bad days am sure your forgiven. I have a metal cage and must admit after reading about bumble foot I panicked. I found out that my girls feet were normal. I must say I think the wooden cages are better planned out as you build them yourself. They are better for the animals feet. so i can fully understand why you got upset that that site doesn't say wood better than metal. Maybe they just need to update the site and not got round to it yet!! The good thing is here every one informs you what to do if you do own a metal cage, cover all mesh flooring ect put more levels in.
It all a step in right direction. Maybe one day everyone will be well informed on our Goo's

[fredundant]

Metal vs wood. I dont think to be honest there is anything for one to outweigh the other. Along as the floor is solid. I suppose metal will last longer. As for wooden cages, it's like us living in a chocolate house. We would onoccasion eat it. But I've only ever had a wooden cage. I like to make them to the size and design I want to suit the room they're in.

[fred]

cazara - Thanks for your kind words I only wish you were right that it's just a matter of an update. I found this quote from degutopia “wooden cages are a definite no for degus“ and although it is a few years old, it fear that is what they really belief

fredundant - I fully agree, that's why I wanted to clarify that it wasn't my intention to say anything against metal cages in general.

[amie]

Ah, Degutopia is great, but is does need a lot of updating! Their cage calculater is.... hmmm.... questionable? lol.

[cazara]

fredundant lol I'd be the only female I think not to eat her way out of a chocolate house lol I hate chocolate. Got visions now of people eating their way out lol Wood cages are fab and Degutopia in my opinion is wrong. Maybe they say that due to unsafe wood's for building the cages. Both types of cages are good (as long as mesh covered)
I really hope they do update this as we have some amazing pictures of happy Goo's in wooden cages. I so want one built for mine so they get more room and height and I can get more Goo's also.
If that is their belief it's a shame I for one hope this changes and soon xxx

[kovu07]

Aww Fred don't worry about what you said I think Degutopia are in the wrong for not realising that wooden cages can provide for degus needs just as much as metal cages can, and are often better as the owners have taken the time to build and adpat them to suit a degus needs. I wish they would update their website as this forum encourages owners to build a cage, which seems to contradict the advice give on degutopia.

[fredundant]

Although I prefer wooden cages I see where degutopia are coming from. I've never bought degus from p@h but my guess is they say about food, sand etc and don't cover wood types. A new owner may build a cage out of unsuitable wood so to cover there own backs it's easier to say don't make a wooden cage. If degutopia raved about wooden cages and someone built one that killed there drugs, they would be held responsible. It's easier here because we are nothing but a forum. So we can advise each others. Eager new owners may just browse degutopia, ignore there forum see a wooden cage and build. I never bother with degutopia so I dont know what they say in the forums. But I think they are just avoiding degu manslaughter.

[fred]

fredundant, if that were their motivation, they could at least mention the possibility and link e.g. to nightwishraven's excellent site octodondegus.weebly.com/ (by all means put in a disclaimer that great care needs to be taken to avoid incorporating anything in the cage which may be harmful to degus).

Also, if degu welfare is the top priority, they should long have updated their cage calculator which amie – much pore polite than I – just considered questionable

[kovu07]

Agreed Fred, they go into lots of detail about other subjects so why not have a page which explains about wooden cages? (And yes they really need to change their cage calculator)

[NightwishRaven999]

This is a very interesting thread.

Fred and Fredundant both make excellent points.
There is a serious lack of information about wooden cages on english websites. This is the main reason why so many degu owners frown to think of degus being housed with wood.

On my degu cage videos on Youtube, I still get the occasional warning that my degus will chew through the cage in no time. The videos in question date back from 2008-2009.
Most of them are so surprised when I tell them my degus are still living in a wooden cage today ;D

The lack of proper information, also make degu owners very skeptical about engaging in such a project.

On the other hand, Fredundant is correct.
Degutopia has, and is still helping new or potential owners learn more about their pet degus. Although some think the information on the site is oudated, overall they are doing a wonderful job.

Most people who read up on Degutopia are new or soon-to-be owners. Degutopia puts a lot of importance on the safety of pet degus...and they do well.
People need to know enough about degus to build an appropriate cage for them. For reasons that were already mentioned, encouraging people who have never owned degus to build a cage can be risky.

One thing Degutopia should consider, is making a section for more advanced owners, with an article and photos on homemade degu cages. Degutopia has a lot of influence on degu owners in the UK and the USA. If Degutopia started promoting wooden degu cages, this would have a very big impact on degu owners. Eventually, more websites would follow and people would come to realise that metal cages are not the only option for housing degus.


Another thing to remember is that pet shops, pet store chains and websites that try to sell animal cages will always stand against DIY wooden cages.


One thing is certain, Deguworld Forum is on a distinct road when it comes to degu housing and care. There are lots of ideas here that have not yet surfaced on other english degu websites.

[fred]

To make this perfectly clear: in general degutopia is a great resource. When I researched degus I got information in equal amounts from degutopia and two German speaking sites. Clearly, in the English speaking world degutopia is unrivalled and to be highly commended for their work. However, I would suggest that with this near monopoly come obligation and responsibility.

Unfortunately this is not discharged when it comes to cages, in particular regarding the suggested minimum size for a degu cage. It has been argued many times on this forum that the degutopia cage calculator is outdated. Over the past decade, suggested minimum cage sizes have gone up in several countries and I think we should all celebrate that we live in more enlightened times as far as pet keeping is concerned. Regrettably degutopia seems determined to stick to its calculator and because it is the prime information source for many new degu owners, I find that very problematic.

In the UK we have a specific problem which is P@H. Because so many degus are bought or adopted from them, they have an overwhelming market position for degu cages. As far as I can see, the Thickets House cage is the only “degu cage” they are currently selling. If one calculates it on the basis of floor and level area which is so important for degus, this cage does not even match half of the minimum requirements given by the RSPCA, the leading animal protection organisation in this country. Yet the degutopia calculator rates this cage as “just suitable for a pair of adult degus”. It thereby gives the P@H a seal of approval which it absolutely does not deserve!!!

I have now begun work on a cage calculator which will be based on the RSPCA recommendations. I will shortly post my initial suggestions on the forum and I hope that there will be a lot of feedback so that the details can be refined in order to also achieve sufficient flexibility (a feature sadly lacking from the Swiss and German calculators).

It is absolutely not my intention to make new owners of degus who have ended up with a P@H cage feel bad! They have been misled by the company and also - regrettably – by degutopia. What we could and should do here is to help them improve these cages. For example putting in a full level and adding an attic as recently shown can be done easily and doesn't cost much. Yet it is bound to already transform their degus' lives

[amie]

I couldn't agree with you more, Fred

[kovu07]

Claps. Well said Fred !!!

[deguconvert]

Hear, hear!! I stand with you, Fred! Lead the way, and we will do all we can to help!

[cazara]

Wow Fred ur doing a cage calculator you must be very cleaver with computers. I'm lucky I know how to switch mine on lol
I really hope you manage this for all the Goo's way to go Fred xx

[fred]

No, I am actually not terribly good at computers. Luckily the calculator should be quite easy to do (otherwise I'm going to look silly). The difficult part may be to find a set of suggestions for length, height etc. with which most people can agree. I have just read discussions on the German forums regarding their calculators which are.. let's say lively. I hope I'll be able to post my initial thoughts tomorrow and that there will be a lot of feedback from the members here.

[kovu07]

We'll certainly give you a lot of feedback i'm sure

[cazara]

I will try help if I can. Am still new to Degu's so still learning but to me the more height the better for my two lol The bottom of their cage is just not a place they want to be lol.
I don't think you will look silly at all. I think even trying to do this is commendable (even if it fails which we hope it doesn't)
Fred either way I take my hat off to you fr trying to change something to make things better for all
You have my respect for this. xx