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Post by nikki81 on Dec 2, 2010 20:25:10 GMT
Ive had to split my boys up because they were fighting like mad Jerry the smaller one has lost a toe on his front right foot and has 3 deep puncture wounds in his neck. i didn't end up unscathed when splitting them up i put on my thick leather gloves put my hand in to stop the when tom tuned on my hand and bit right thew the glove and right thew the web between my thumb and first finger so after getting the boy in there new homes i had to go to a&e and get looked at am now on antibiotics and pain killers and can't move my fingers hardly Ive go to go back to see if there's a tendon been cut
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Post by smux on Dec 2, 2010 20:32:51 GMT
If he'd have done that to me he would soon have wished he hadn't, I'd have made sure of it...fight fire with fire, always, but always be prepared to get burned too.
Anyway, they're split up because they were fighting, that's about all you've given us as information...any chance we could have ages, how long you've had them, anything that's changed in their world, what you think the fight might have been over, that is if you're posting for advice rather than just to tell us :-)
If they're around the 6-12 month mark it will be puberty and be prepared for many months of that to come...a bit of discipline and letting them know you are the boss is what they need if you want any chance of them paying any attention to you during that time...much like human teens, really :-P
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Post by nikki81 on Dec 2, 2010 20:59:44 GMT
nothing has changed there about 18 months old now but about two weeks ago they started boxing and kicking each other i think they may get a visit from my reticulated python
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Post by smux on Dec 2, 2010 23:52:35 GMT
Any chance that python has live feed? Any chance one has escaped? I'm sure you know what I am getting at :-P
There is almost always something that has changed (I'd push the notion that there is always something, just not always something *we* can perceive) to affect the status quo, it could be anything from something as small as a new scent on you (any chance you've been in regular contact with anyone else's pets before going home? That could even be as simple as sitting in a chair they've slept in) to something like sounds coming from a neighbours house, or just that the submissive of the two has decided to take no more of it and become the dominant one. Age is obviously not a factor maturity-wise but there are other factors to look into. Are they brothers or were they introduced to each other? Siblings tend to get along better than non-related degus.
If none of that helps, try spraying some air freshener in the room they're in (not too near the cage unless it's organic, chemicals and degu don't mix :-)) and you should see them turn their head to see what you're doing...hopefully a little later, the scent will mask any scents they might be responding to, if there are any. Opening a window also helps, although in the current British weather it probably isn't a good idea :-)
You might need to get two of everything they have in their cage, if there is anything they might fight over or a time when they fight...if it's around dinner time when you feed them, for instance, two bowls will help...if they fight over a wheel, two wheels MIGHT help (they've been known to still fight over the favourite wheel). I personally would leave this as a last ditch attempt unless you recognise any possible trigger for fights, best not to spend money needlessly.
You could clean out their cage, but sprinkle SOME of the dirty substrate over the top of the clean stuff you put in so they still have the old scent...cleaning out the cage completely can mess with the hierarchy a little as they need to re-claim the cage and their superiority over the other(s). Also, if you clean out the cage, mix a load of safe treats (treats they can have a load of, sunflower seeds spring to mind although they should be limited to a few a day, steer clear of peanuts, there's quite a few treats you can give in abundance but they normally need to be bought from P@H or somewhere like that) into the substrate so they have to forage for it. Also consider changing the cage around a bit to give them something new to investigate. New toys or snacks/treats also work well...millet is a bird treat but degus also like it and I am betting you've never given it to your degus :-)
If all else fails, I hope the python chokes on them :-P
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Post by nikki81 on Dec 3, 2010 9:48:04 GMT
thanks ill try what you have said by the way my reticulated python is a draft stopper that have at my door they go mad for ;D ;D they are little sods at the moment but id never feed them to anything.
i had the poorly one to the vet and he said that the fighting might be because of breeding season thats early winter to mid spring each year is that right ?
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Post by malteser60 on Dec 3, 2010 10:36:51 GMT
Yup, apparently it's breeding season right now. Although I think, not sure, but usually the fighting breaks out in the males because there will be a female nearby. That's what I've gathered from reading other people's posts and experience.
Can somebody else confirm or correct me on this?
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Post by smux on Dec 3, 2010 19:12:18 GMT
From what I understand, breeding season can cause the males to be a bit more aggressive towards each other, but without a female they shouldn't be fighting. Because of this, I am going to assume that YOU are the female they are fighting over (and I assume you're female because of the name), it's a logical assumption that they think of you as one of their family and might want to claim you as theirs and there's little you can do to stop it. As we know they're fairly scent-driven, you might find some respite by wearing clean clothes or a regularly washed dressing gown or something (basically something that hasn't got any of your scent on it) or trying the air freshener trick I mentioned above which will help keep them under control by masking any scents you might bring to their cage. Also as little interaction with them as possible if this does start working, and if you want to visit them often you'll need to get some organic air freshener to ensure it doesn't do them any harm.
I should point out I am basing this suggestion on the information I have been given and there's no way to be sure it will work, it may be that there is no information that could be given that would result in the right suggestion or it may be that results from this gives us an idea of what triggers there might be that are causing them to fight. What is for sure though is that degus will fight over their owners, usually jealousy over others getting time out of the cage with you or getting the treats first or things like that (or sexual reasons, around breeding time...remember they're not in control of their hormones, if they see you as a degu they're going to have these feelings)...they're simple creatures with simple drives, sadly their problems are never so simple :-)
One last possibility...you say your "boys", but are there any girls elsewhere in the house (not just degu, any animal, although degu is probably the most important) because if there are you should try visiting the boys as soon as you get in and go to the girls afterwards...scent will travel with you to the boys if you visit the girls first, and this is where you need to have a dressing gown or something...when my Theresa had her babies the first time, I had to switch t-shirts all the time because she was in one room and would come out and go on my shoulder and the boys could smell her scent on me...if I didn't, they would fight.
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Post by deguconvert on Dec 4, 2010 6:22:17 GMT
I can see where the transfered scent of female degus, on clothing or skin, might cause fighting among the male degu population, if any are resident. However, I do not agree with the postulation that females of other species will cause the same fighting. I have seen posts like these since joining the forum, and every year around this time, the aggression between cage mates does seem to rise noticeably.
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Post by arumanii on Dec 4, 2010 6:31:02 GMT
when cold start barny to warm up?
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Post by nickymills30 on Dec 4, 2010 8:30:39 GMT
when cold start barny to warm up? sorry, don't understand think i;m having a blonde moment lol. My boys are behaving, at the mo, and they have 15 girls, in the same room!
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Post by nikki81 on Dec 4, 2010 10:16:13 GMT
Ive read all the comments i do think its because of breading season i see it most weekends when having a few drinks in Manchester two "men" i say that lightly beating ten bells out of each other because of some small incident watching them over the last few days i think is the same in the degu world to many hormones and no one backs down
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Post by smux on Dec 4, 2010 21:04:06 GMT
Typical woman's comment, but I agree...the females are quietly doing something elsewhere, the washing up probably :-P
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Post by nikki81 on Dec 7, 2010 20:45:35 GMT
well i think Ive got the fighting sorted out i was chatting to a friend who breeds rats and she said that if i put them back in the same cage and let them fight it out THEN take them out and clean any wounds and put them right back in and keep a eye on them for a good while the problem will iron itself out so Ive gave it a try there were fighting like hammer and tongs for 15-20 mins then just stopped one went to one end of the cage and the other to the opposite end i then pulled them out one at a time cleaned them up and put them back and bam problem's gone no more fighting there snuggling up together as i type this ! it did seem cruel to let them hurt each other but all said there now best friends again if a bit ruffled at the edges
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Post by smux on Dec 7, 2010 21:12:29 GMT
Not the greatest advice when it comes to degus, considering the fact they can and will fight to the death in some cases, but I agree that it is one option as long as you are (1) monitoring them during the fight all the time and (2) prepared to stick your hand in and split them up should it turn into a furball of death. Few people feel confident doing so unless they're wearing gloves, and even then they will get hurt as degus in that mindset are ruthless and they'll hurt you without even wanting to.
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Post by deguconvert on Dec 7, 2010 22:05:04 GMT
This is a method sometimes used . . . although most people are loath to try it. It's just so violent and we get too scared for our little loves to let it go some distance. I truly hope for your sake that they have totally settled their dispute. Degus are mammoth grudge holders, so sometimes a problem is simmering under the surface until the next explosion, especially during the adolescent months, from 6 months to a year of age. When our boys finally made lasting peace, one of the indicators was the fact that Peek (amibitious deposer of Reep) would follow Reep around the cage, making little meeps and chortles, almost crawling instead of walking. The moment Reep would stop moving, Peek would throw himself on the floor in front of him, belly up, and BEG, with all the persuasion he could muster, for Reep to groom his belly. Any conflicts now happen between Peek and Snug, who are brothers, because Peek considers himself the "number two" and hates it when Snug appears to be forgetting his place. LOL!
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Post by smux on Dec 7, 2010 22:49:26 GMT
And another case in point...Dante and Elsevier would fight and we'd stop them as soon as we could...and Dante's lost the whole of the top of one ear and an L from the other ear from two fights...Damien's had a slice taken from millimetres below his eye (it's getting better, although not great) in a fight I stopped. In both those cases, imagine what could have happened had those fights continued. Now I have to say that I have let fighting between Damien and Loki continue in the past, but I know that for the most part theirs isn't borne of hatred and underneath it all they love each other and will love to spend the night in the same house cuddling up...if I thought for one second that they wouldn't be safe, they'd be split up (much like I did before leaving for my voluntary work today...Loki spent the day upstairs)
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Post by nikki81 on Dec 8, 2010 11:51:54 GMT
i think i spoke to soon i was woken up last night to the sound of degu fighting only the find jerry with a 2 pence size hole in the side of his neck ive taken him to the vet and had him pached up :-(
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Post by arumanii on Dec 8, 2010 18:35:36 GMT
oh no Nikki!
Hope he's ok. They usually bounce back from all sorts of wounds quite quickly so try not to worry too much.
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Post by deguconvert on Dec 8, 2010 20:20:40 GMT
What a shocking sight that must have been! I'm sure you've suffered through some very anxious minutes since that discovery!
You might want to try the solitary confinement method with your two. Do you have two cages . . . not just one that is split down the middle? If you do . . . put your boys in the two separate cages and then put them in two separate rooms, where they can have no sight or smell of each other. I think you might want to try them at least 3 days apart, and then have an introduction time in the bathroom/tub with them. During the 3 days, feed them, water them, maybe chat a bit with them, but don't bring them out for play time, and if at all possible, don't snuggle them yourself. They need to feel the impact of no cage mate and being all by their lonesome. This can help to wipe the slate of offenses clean. With that wiped clean, getting them back together has a better chance of success.
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bjames
Burrowing Degu
Posts: 220
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Post by bjames on Dec 9, 2010 20:55:04 GMT
hello, i havent been on for a long time.... i believe that these fights are to do with mating season.
I tried the solitary confinement, it did work... only for one degu though
Lance (big meanie) accepted Oscar (lowest rank) but not the other two. so now Lance and Oscar live together and Rupert and to to live together. I would love them to all be together again but i am doubtful. At play time when i let toto and rupert out oscar tries to greet them through the mesh of the cage ans does that happy chirpy sound but then lance pushes oscar away and starts grunting and trying to nip their noses.
Oh so naughty and mean, I kind of want to try it again and put oscar back with toto and rupert and lance alone see if they can sort it out again but i may wait til after mating season now. Lance is a big grudge holder
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