Adult attacking babies

[scoope]

Hi
I am new to this forum and wonder if anyone can help.

I have 3 females which I got about 2.5 months ago.
One of them Pop gave birth 7 days ago to 6 babies.
3 of them have now died.
I think they have been attacked by one of the other females in the cage.
This female is also quite round so I wonder if she is pregnant too.
I have tried removing the other 2 females to a temporary cage but they seemed to react badly and just sat at the bottom of the cage, so I decided to put them back with the mother and babies.

I now fear for the babies though and think they will be attacked like the others. I thought that other females should help and get on well?
Any advice gratefully received as I don't know what to do for the best

Sue

[emz]

If she is also pregnant as well it might be that she is territorial. I think I've read that females can become more territorial when pregnant. Hopefully someone with experience of pregnant goos will post soon (only had males myself.)

-Emma.

[scoope]

I did wonder Emma, thanks or replying, any other advice welcome.
That's why I tried her in a separate cage but even handling or moving if they are pregnant is not good. She just seemed to become depressed almost, flattening herself to the bottom of the cage, that's why I had to put her back....

[emz]

Can you not split the cage in half somehow?

That way the adults can still interact but then you have more peace of mind that the babies would be safe.

It is possible that the babies have died from their own ill health. If they look attacked/eaten this could be the degus trying to clear the body to avoid predators. However best to not take chances with such little delicate babies at a potential risk.

-Emma.

[deguconvert]

It would be helpful to know what the babies that remain look like. Are they fully furred, eyes open, and moving about? At 7 days of age they should be quite active, actually to the point of causing you some stress for fear of them escaping. Sometimes a degu will kill babies that are ill, as a means of protecting the nest site, and keeping the population healthy. (In the wild, but also observed with pet degus.) If the babies die, they will often eat the deceased baby to remove any scent that would draw predators. It is also a helpful means of restoring her strength, even though it sounds totally revolting. They won't just munch into a baby for the sake of something to eat though.

Do you know if the males your girls were housed with were from the same litter, or even their father? If there are genetic problems that are a threat to the babies health or ability to thrive, females have been known to kill them. Do you know if there is the possibility of inbreeding?

[listracian]

I have had two females pregnant at the same time in the cage, neither attacked each other or the babies. Also both litters were in bred (i bought the two females pregnant). The female who had 6 babies had also birthed two deformed babies that were dead when i found them and removed from the rest of the litter - they had been dragged to the opposite end of the cage and basically buried.

I agree it would help to see what they look like - if they are inbred there may be issues. One litter of mine, half of them were born with cataracts, and one of the girls is now completely blind. So there can be issues if they are inbred.

[scoope]

Oh gosh, it gets more complicated.

The second female - snap, gave birth this morning and her babies and the others are now all in the same nest.
The atmosphere in the cage seems far more harmonious as she is quite happily sat in the nest with all the babies.

The first baby that died wandered out of the nest at 2 days and I found him bleeding from the mouth as if attacked. I placed it back in the nest but later it was dead and from what you have said the mother had started to eat it.
The second dead one was under bedding so I thought maybe had suffocated but maybe it died first.
The third dead one my son saw the second mother attack it, out in the cage, and it died later.

I feel so foolish to have ended up in this situation.
I first saw Degus in a pet shop but didn't like the idea of buying them from there.
I then spent 3 months researching on the internet all about them before finding some babies for sale on the internet.
The lady had 5 degus and seemed to know alot about them. She said she was on holiday for 2 weeks and then I picked up the 3 girls a couple of days later.
This was obviously enough time for 2 of them to get pregnant by whatever male was in the cage with them.
The three larger babies are wandering around the cage but I have noticed maybe both eyes aren't open - is this a sign of deformity? - at 7 days old...

Thank you in advance for any replies
Sue

[deguconvert]

Not having both eyes open isn't necessarily a sign of deformity. Sometimes they are just rather sticky and harder to open on one side. That should correct as they grow older. It is really difficult to say why the second mother would attack as she did. Whether it was her raging preggie hormones, or the babies were ill . . . hard to know really. That she is delivered and all seems good and happy now is a wonderful thing. Don't make any changes at all if you can at all avoid it. If you can hold off on a complete cage cleaning for the next two weeks, that will be good as well. The less upset for Mom2 the better. LOL!

And, hey . . . don't be so hard on yourself. There are very few first time degu owners that don't find themselves in unexpected waters at some point. They are just different from other rodents, but in a good way. You are doing well with all that has been thrown your way in such short order. I'm sure that I would be feeling much the same way as you if I were to find babies in our cage (especially with three confirmed bachelors LOL), with evidence of being attacked and killed. It would truly throw me! Once you have become accustomed to the unique characteristics of your degus . . . their many different sounds, humping, humping, and more humping, incredibly fast movement, and jumping much higher than you think they can, the unexpected grooming of a nice long finger nail, resting on your shoulder nice and quiet until suddenly they are grooming your head and chewing on your hair, trying to taste your food . . . well, I'm sure you more than get the idea . . . you'll be on to smooth sailing (for the most part) and enjoying their quirks. You're a great degu mom!

[scoope]

Oh thankyou for your support, it's much appreciated.

I never wanted to go into owning them half-heartedly, but never expected all this.
I'm sure I will have lots more questions as time goes on.
If I'm to rehome them I want to make sure they don't get pregnant themselves....
I think timing is probably very important:-
What age can they be removed from mum?
What age can they be sexed hopefuly correctly?
What age are they sexually mature?

Thanks again
Sue

[emz]

I think the males can be removed from the mother at 6 weeks old as that is their weaning age. As for the other 2 questions I am not sure but am sure deguconvert will know.

There is a nice video on sexing degus (adult and baby) on YouTube though: www.youtube.com/watch?v=wX-NF6xrPI8

[listracian]

Both sets of my babies were with their mums for 8 weeks. I handled them a couple of days after they were born as well and they are all the sweetest things now. I didn't end up with any others pregnant either but I did start seperating the boys from the others at about 6 weeks, I spent the two extra weeks with some time in their new cage on their own, sometimes with mum and sometimes with their sister. It was just so that they could get use to it without it being too different. You don't have to do that, some people just take them away at 6 weeks but I wanted to make sure the transition was easy on them

[scoope]

I still have 1 very stroppy degu!

Both lots of babies are in the same nest and both mothers go to it fine......
If one of the first babies goes for a wander round the cage, the second mother attacks it, she obviously knows its not one of hers...
On top of that one of the first babies still has its eyes shut at 10 days old, they have never opened, I think it might be blind...and the second mother keeps having a go at it..... its really sad..

[deguconvert]

I feel so bad!! I don't really know what to tell you. I think if you were able to take the two moms and all the babies to the vet so that the vet could have a look at the baby with closed eyes and it's siblings . . . maybe you would get a bit of an idea if there is more of a problem than can be "diagnosed" through the forum here. To hear that the 2nd mom is still so aggressive with the first pups is truly distressing. I wonder if it would be OK, at this point, to separate Mom1 and her pups from Mom2 and her pups? It that something you can do even? Please keep us updated.

[gemmagreaves]

hi how are you and the goos and goolings doing? i had 2 females give birth within a week of each other and one gave birth on top of the other litter. i ahd an issue with one of the females not lookign after her babies at first, she 'forgot' they were there! when they were staggering out of the nest the other 2 females just kind of side stepped them so i had to separate mum and her babies for a bit. it sound sto me like you have a very overprotective mother of the 2nd litter. sounds like she feels threatened with the presence of the first litter. i agree with deguconvert i think if you can separate the litters that would be a good start. and definitely get them all to the vet for a check up as mine all had their eyes open after 2 days. we've had 14 babies over 3 litters now and never had to experience what you're going through. it sound slike the 2nd mums maybe attacking the weaklings of the first litter so as not to draw attention by predators to her babies? the vet might be able to shed some light on the babies conditions though. good luck!

[scoope]

Hi
I've been very busy with baby degus but just wanted to let you know that all of them are very happy now!
Still have the 10 babies! 3 of them are 6 weeks old this week and the others 6 weeks old next week.
Even the one that had its eye closed for a few weeks now has it open and looks fine. I'm sure the second mother was just very overprotective. It was definately her that attacked three of the first six but when her own were born she seemed a better mother to all of them than the first!
I'm taking them to the vets this week to check the sex as I want to be certain this doesn't happen to anyone else, and fingers crossed I have found homes for all of them.
I would like to thank you all for your replies and advice at a very traumatic time but it's definately a happy ending!
All 13 were snuggled together this afternoon and I'm sure they were watching TV with us!
They are all growing so much now and eating me out of degu pellets.
Thanks again
Sue

[deguconvert]

;D ;D ;D That is GREAT to hear. I'm so glad they are thriving and that 'One Eyed Pete' now sees through both eyes! AND having homes for them all? WOW you are doing brilliantly!! Need a smiley face that cheers. Thanks for giving us an update.

[sammydee]

Hi Sue,

I've posted back on the adoption link - but I don't know if you've seen it

We're still interested in your baby girls if they are still available.

Please let me know - Sam