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Post by smux on Nov 22, 2010 0:17:33 GMT
Sorry for the blurred image, but my phone camera is a pile of rubbish.
Basically, here's how it went...
A week or so ago, I noticed that the male in the cage with Gizmo was a female so I swapped them...I KNOW I swapped them round properly.
I know 100% sure that the baby with the end of their tail bitten off is a girl, so that's simple...if the baby with Gizmo is a female then the male must be the one in with the girls who has their full tail, so I just took him out and put the other one in...NOW Gizmo was harassing the baby all day today and the baby was fighting back, and a few times I moved him out to the top of the other cage while Loki/Damien were downstairs (hence WHY THE HELL Damien and Loki were fighting and Loki got hurt), but I was out of the room at one point while Gizmo/boy were together in the cage an when I got back he was humping the baby and had them caught under the ramp. The only reason I went in was to stop it because it wasn't fair to catch them like that, and after I got the baby away Gizmo did the mating bark (for ages...I HATE that sound!)...and when I checked to see if the boy was okay down below I noticed a hole above the one they all have and it was plugged up with something...so it's a female. She's a little over 3 months old, what's the chances she could be pregnant? Degutopia says average age is 6 months but can be from 45 days to 20 months, so that says it's possible but unlikely, right?
The picture I have posted above is the male...I think...or have I just totally messed it up and they're all female?
For the record, I am STILL considering getting rid of degus (it's things like this which make me consider it) and I'm adding Damien, Loki AND Gizmo to the list of degus that are going...they are the worst of the bunch at times, and they're my boys...okay, maybe I'm not, it's almost the end of their 58 weeks and I am sure they'll be a bit more mellow once they're past it...that or they're going to have to learn to swim pretty fast.
In all the time I've had the girlies, they have NEVER been any problem except for squeaking late at night and gnawing on their house...they'd be a delight to have in my room if I let them stay with me :-)
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Post by Cherpi on Nov 22, 2010 1:22:02 GMT
Im not an expert but isnt that a girl?
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Post by smux on Nov 22, 2010 1:29:05 GMT
I'm no expert either, but there actually isn't any visible lady bits below the urethral cone. On first glance of that pic, I would have said girlie too, but my test (with the cotton bud and warm water) doesn't show anything either. If all 3 are girls, this would probably explain how come I keep on messing up with the boy as there isn't one, but I'll wait for someone more knowledgeable than either of us to comment before I put the little lone one in with Theresa...would hate for it to be a boy and get her pregnant again or something.
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Post by smux on Nov 22, 2010 1:51:17 GMT
Also, it sounds like a stupid question (or suggestion) but any idea if it would be okay to "mark" degus with food colouring so I can kinda tell them apart? That way if one of these IS a boy I can tell which one it is without having to mess about. TBH I do believe all 3 are girls so this is academic, but it might come in handy later on if I was able to put a little marking on their ear or somewhere so I could tell who is who (at least until it wore off, however long that took).
I'm aware they'll be easier to tell apart as I get used to them, I did so with my 4 fairly easily, but it'd be in THEIR best interests for me to tell them apart properly :-)
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Post by amie on Nov 22, 2010 2:41:03 GMT
I'd say they're girl parts, but again, unless you're sexing them in person, difficult to be sure. And by the sounds of this little one, it's difficult to tell in person too lol. I understand what you mean about having to tell them apart. Not sure about food colouring or not sure about snipping a TINY piece of hair from his/her side (they lose hair in fights all the time, don't time?). I'll leave someone else to comment on that, but I DO understand the need to tell them apart
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Post by deguconvert on Nov 22, 2010 3:13:34 GMT
Food colouring is fine to use, as it is food safe and non-toxic. It is HARD to put on and get it to stick . . . it works a little better if the fur is already a little damp in the location that you want the colour.
I have to say that my first thought is, that is a little girl in your picture. Even looking at it for a while and wondering, I still lean more strongly to thinking female than male. She has a stronger ring of flesh around the anus than you see with some females, which I think is confusing to look at, but the distance between urethral cone and anus is still small like a females.
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Post by nickymills30 on Nov 22, 2010 7:12:19 GMT
i'd say its a girl too, but, as the others have said a pic is never like the real thing.
don't give up on your goo;s smux, these things are sent to try us, and its obvious you love them dearly. xx
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Post by nuttz on Nov 22, 2010 8:54:11 GMT
**or they're going to have to learn to swim pretty fast** youre not saying what i think youre saying....are you???
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Post by amie on Nov 22, 2010 9:02:47 GMT
LOL @ Nuttz! Swim Degu, swim!
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Post by nickymills30 on Nov 22, 2010 9:04:24 GMT
you lot are horrid lol
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Post by nuttz on Nov 22, 2010 9:37:18 GMT
i actually didnt think it was funny...........but seeing how you put it amie....................ROFL ;D
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Post by smux on Nov 22, 2010 10:06:55 GMT
I wouldn't really cause any harm to them...well, nothing lasting like a swimming lesson, but they are a real pain esp. when they have to be separated like this over so many cages and sections as I barely have the space...It's only because of Elsevier that I have a spare cage now.
As I said before, I would be inclined to say female from the pic too, hence why I originally said it was best not to confirm it with pictures as I get the basic idea of what needs to be done, but I am sure there can be males that look female and vice versa at this age as it would explain how come so many breeders mess up with their sexing. I have to go out soonish so I will redo my test on the little one to confirm, I've got them on their own in the big cage for now so I can't mix them up. The thing with this little one is that my test for gender (as I said above) doesn't show any reason to think it's a girlie yet on looks alone it definitely does look female.
I am going to sort out a memory card for my camera so I can use it to take better pictures ASAP.
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Post by Whizz on Nov 22, 2010 16:46:30 GMT
I understand your uncertainty, one of my boys - Gus hasn't got the biggest gap between his Urethral Cone and Anus. I checked them all when we first got them, and he has no small hole underneath and we had them checked by a vet to make sure. He's definitely a boy! Then again, one of my other boys has a huge gap in in comparison. Due to my boys also being in their puberty stage, I have checked them all again and although they have a slight difference in their gaps, they have no extra hole, and I'm pretty sure I've all seen them with their bits out (I'm afraid to say!)
So it must just depend from Degu to Degu.
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Post by deguconvert on Nov 22, 2010 17:33:52 GMT
Yeah . . . seeing them with their bits OUT is a very positive confirmation of male gender. I confess, that although I checked and checked my boys, and was always sure they LOOKED male, I didn't feel completely at peace about my conclusion until I witnessed each and every one of them giving "specific cleaning care" to their extended bits.
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Post by nickymills30 on Nov 22, 2010 18:00:25 GMT
pmsl!!!
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Post by smux on Nov 22, 2010 18:05:24 GMT
Talking of bits out, I should report (although it's the wrong thread) that Loki had his out "attacking" Damien a little bit earlier so I'm pleased to report that area seems to be fine or at least getting better.
Getting back on topic, I am going to sex the baby again in a bit my way, I have to know for sure that it's a boy and not a girl, and if it is a boy 100% I am going to mark his ear with something tomorrow (got to buy the food colouring, I think...flavourings don't work so well, I'd have to sniff each baby :-)) so I don't get them mixed up.
Also, the new babies really enjoy the big cage, it seems, they always come out and play until Theresa moves them back indoors (to the wooden house rather than the cardboard one they had in the old cage)
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Post by smux on Nov 23, 2010 1:01:29 GMT
Okay, I have checked the baby again an hour or so ago, and I am STILL in two minds about it. There is nothing showing when I do the test I mentioned, which suggests boy, but the shape of the bits suggests a girl. Is it possible that it's a girl and her opening either isn't as open as the others or she just isn't as far developed as the others? If she isn't, at what age would she be fully developed? I am kinda understanding how difficult it is for some breeders to get it right when sexing the babies, as they see the shape and choose male or female without investigating further...and the only time they find out they're wrong is if a customer complains. The baby is still on their own until I have decided either way so some answer would be helpful before about 12ish tomorrow (I'll be home then for a bit, got to go out a little after that until the evening...if I can decide to put them in with Theresa by then, I will, although obviously I won't be around to monitor them, so maybe the evening when I am around is best). Oh, and it turns out I have some red food colouring so I can easily mark this one before putting them in.
The top of the cage (their area) is filled liberally with barley straw and they're having lots of fun digging around in it, and even sleeping in it at times, so if anyone is ever at a loss for something fun for their young degus a large amount of soft straw/hay is a perfect play area and they can eat while they play :-)
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Post by smux on Nov 27, 2010 23:57:22 GMT
Just as an update, I let the baby spend the night with Gizmo after spending a little time in his cage and they both behaved very well so I decided to let the baby stay in with Gizmo (they both needed the company) while I was out (got to volunteer somewhere as part of my job seeking...and no, it's not community service :-P) and they've been fine together since I got in at about 7pm so I think they'll spend some more time together. The cage they're in is a bit small, but the bigger one is a bit too big in my opinion and isn't in my room either, maybe if I move it into my room they can use it instead...although the small one is adequate, they both like it.
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Post by Cherpi on Nov 28, 2010 0:27:52 GMT
is Gizmo a girl? and it's nice to see two degus getting on!
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Post by smux on Nov 28, 2010 0:44:45 GMT
No, Gizmo's a boy (and a pretty horny one at that, he's the reason Theresa's been pregnant twice and may be the reason one of the original babies is pregnant) but I am now fairly certain that despite the looks the baby is also a boy because Gizmo hasn't shown any interest in "getting some" with this one. Being his dad, Gizmo will easily get on with the little one, but the options he has are few and far between anyway as Gizmo and the baby both fight with Damien and Loki and the only other male either of them can go with is Dante who recently lost his brother Elsevier (as you know). It is possible that I will try to introduce both of them to Dante as he is still alone and he DOES need someone to share his cage with, he's showing signs of depression or at least that he misses his brother. I'll be giving the room and cage a good clean before he gets any new cage mates though, to de-Elsevier the place for him so he can move on without any scents to remind him of the little guy.
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