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Post by nickymills30 on Nov 16, 2010 19:10:36 GMT
I've just been in, to give my boys a cuddle, and noticed some small amounts of blood, on their shelf (Dave, Declan and Dexter)
Looked at Dave, nothing, couldn't catch Declan, which isn't unusual, but when i got dexter out, he had what looked like dried blood around his man parts.
Know i;ve NEVER tried to sex goo's, so i had poor Dave in the dominance hold, then karl, and they def look different to Dexter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I even had my mom and daughter having a look at them all.
Know i can't feel any nipples on Dexter, and can't feel any babies.
OMG, i really hope its not babies, but what else could it be? Do i separate Dexter? My vets aren't open know, and when i spoke to him about goo's he said he'd never dealt with them, so would he be able to sex them?
I am really angry, and if it turns out Dexter is a girl, i will be causing hell at pets @ homes!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry for the rant, i just feel to helpless. but if Dexter is a she, it may well explain what all the fighting has been about.
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Post by Bexi87 on Nov 16, 2010 19:38:54 GMT
Nicky, are you able to catch Dexter or get him to stretch against the side of the cage (for a treat) and take a picture to show us?
Might be the easiest way of sexing him...
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Post by nickymills30 on Nov 16, 2010 19:45:45 GMT
will try, but don;t hold your breath, as my wonderful husband, has turn the flash off, on our camera and can't take a decent pic!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by Bexi87 on Nov 16, 2010 19:52:12 GMT
lol! Men...
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Post by nickymills30 on Nov 16, 2010 20:16:40 GMT
ok, here goes.
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Post by Jaiye on Nov 16, 2010 20:20:07 GMT
Might also work to get Dexter to climb the cage side (if mesh???) to take a picture as well. Maybe point a lamp at them as well to lighten the picture???
Hope you find out soon and put your mind at ease!!!
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Post by Bexi87 on Nov 16, 2010 20:22:35 GMT
Hmmm...I can't really see much on the pic
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Post by smux on Nov 16, 2010 21:03:23 GMT
Me neither, although the distance does suggest Dexter's going to be known as Daphne soon :-) One point to note is whether it is just blood you can see or if there is any other gooey (only way I can explain it...like the white of an egg) stuff around there, that's what my Theresa had although the absence of it doesn't mean anything but the presence of it would confirm. Take a cotton bud and dip it in warm water and put it just below his urethral cone (the sticky out bit) and turn the cotton bud clockwise (if in your right hand) so the bud is rubbing downwards. This will clean off the dried blood and also will give you an idea of if you're looking at a male or a female. If he's a he, the cotton bud will do nothing to the area but if she's a she then you will start to see an opening. The warm water cleans and wettens the area, making the skin more flexible, and the movement of the bud opens her up if she's a she...she'll soon dry off and be back to normal Not the greatest way to sex a degu, but the results are almost 100% (although I have no idea if it will work so well on really young degus under 6 weeks old, in case anyone needs to sex their new babies...I'll know soon :-)) Edit: If you do the above test you will know for sure if Dexter's a boy or girl, and there should be no need to see the vet. If Dexter IS a girl, it would be a good idea to separate *IF* you haven't noticed any signs that Dexter may be pregnant (if there's a good chance she's pregnant, no point splitting up unless you have the space...I kept Theresa in with her brothers for the same reason). The blood is an irregular sign (doesn't always happen) but it doesn't always denote pregnancy either, it's just sometimes it's because of being pregnant. You may find that once you've cleaned the area you can get a better look at it and might find he's got a cut or a bad splinter down there at worst. will try, but don;t hold your breath, as my wonderful husband, has turn the flash off, on our camera and can't take a decent pic!!!!!!!!!!!! At that distance it's a good idea you don't use the flash anyway, better to be under a light in a well lit room or to direct a light at his bits...even with his eyes covered, Dexter will feel the flash, and the sound of it coupled with the warmth of the light won't be a good feeling...and that's if you manage to shield his eyes from it, we all know what wrigglers these degus can be :-)
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Post by nickymills30 on Nov 16, 2010 21:16:05 GMT
thanks smux. What you have explained, about, with the cotton bud, does make sense, as when me and my daughter was having a look at their bits, dexter did have an opening below his urethral cone.
I;m going to leave him/her alone tonight, as he/she gave me a warning bite, when i was trying to take some more pics.
Will let you know tomorrow how things are going xxx
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Post by smux on Nov 16, 2010 21:37:48 GMT
You should find that if you try the same thing on the boys they don't have this opening...it's very confusing as looking at the area without doing this you can't tell for sure whether they're one way or the other and the sexing of the degu is basically an educated guess based on the distance between cone and anus...not having seen them before makes it harder to compare too, and many degus are in the middle size-wise. Now comes the real spanner in the works...if the degu in question is overweight, stretching of the area may make them look like they're male when they're actually female, although this rarely happens.
This definitely does explain why there was fighting, and it might also explain why they got on so well most of the time...all it took was for the right day and the scent from the female would have been sniffed by the males and it'd all go pear-shaped, but up until then males and females will get on really well together most of the time (they're easier to bond than same-sex pairs, basically)
If the opening was clearly what a female degu should have there, then it's safe to assume Dexter's a female. If you're happy with your look at the other two and the fact that Dexter looks different to both of them, that's enough for me and would be if I were in your place
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Post by nickymills30 on Nov 16, 2010 21:40:46 GMT
Ok, have been on degutopia, there video is brill!
Dexter is in fact Dolly. I'm not sure what to do know..
we've had dexter/dolly since the middle of august, and was put in with dave and declan begining of september.
She isn't any fatter than the others. So, do i leave her with them, and risk her getting pregnant, if she isn't already, or separating her, and getting her a little friend?
If i do separate her, and get her a friend, will her friend be ok, if she does have babies?
sorry for all the questions, but yet again Pets at homes strike again!!!!!
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Post by Bexi87 on Nov 16, 2010 21:53:56 GMT
I'm glad you've managed to find out Nicky. I'm no expert but maybe it would be worth putting Dolly in a separate cage incase she is pregnant and is due soon and IF she does have a litter, keep the girls for her to live with?!
I'd contact Pets at Home too, I've heard that they can be good when mis-sexing leads to babies...helping out with cages etc..might be worth a visit?
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Post by nickymills30 on Nov 16, 2010 22:13:32 GMT
Ok, i;ve decided to separate, in the morning, as my spare cage is at the top of the garden in my shed, with no electricity!!!!!
I did consider getting her a friend, but, i;m going to give her 3 months, to see if she does have any babies, which is more than enough time, and if she doesn't then get her a friend. But if she does have babies, and there are any girls, will keep those phew!
Thanks for listening to me moan, again lol
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Post by smux on Nov 17, 2010 0:29:10 GMT
It will be fine for you to get her a friend now and in either case (whether she has babies or not) her friend *should* be fine with them...from what I've read, female degus share the workload (even down to feeding if more than one female is lactating at the same time, so they'd feed each other's babies) so in a way a female companion would be a good thing as long as you don't get them from P@H :-) It would also be a good thing for her to have company for in the interim...3 months is a long time to be alone, and it may be enough for her to have her cage near to the boys but it may also incite fighting between the two boys if she is in their vicinity...this is all stuff you are going to find out and have to make a decision about. *I* would get her a companion somehow and keep them in a separate room to the boys to keep fighting to a minimum.
Keeping her in the cage with them is no more dangerous than it has been since you put her in with them, and while most people would advise against it (I would too) there is little chance of the situation changing because you didn't separate as soon as you found out. In fact, the first time you remember there being any fighting going on might have been the time she would have been impregnated by one of the boys, so if you can remember estimated dates you can work out when they will be due to arrive by counting 3 months on from there (exact amount is 87-94 days but Theresa had hers before the 87th day so it's just a ballpark figure) and if it goes past that date and she hasn't even got a bit fatter then you can safely assume she's not pregnant. She's been with them since Semptember, she won't show a great deal until December, I would say, as both times I have looked at Theresa before the babies came I would think to myself that she's just fat and needs to cut down on the treats a little...that is, until the last month of her pregnancy when you realise shes still getting fat without the treats (and fatty treats when pregnant are a good thing, although nothing official actually states that...it builds up energy reserves for the mum and her babies) then about 2 weeks before she's due you will notice nipples on her underside...nipples are the only sure sign you are going to get, so be on the lookout for them, and you will easily spot them if you hold her from underneath when picking her up (gently, of course, just cupping her body) although I am not sure how safe it is for the babies if there are any (it might put pressure on them from above if they're underneath her, I know very little about the specifics :-)) so perhaps just do it to feel for nipples rather than pick her up that way. Also, as Dingle said, P@H are known for generosity when it comes to mistakes they've made like this, they've given vouchers to customers in the past...the vouchers probably won't cover the added costs of looking after the babies, but on the flip side you're getting a bigger brood for free :-)
Now to the original question about the blood...if she isn't getting any fatter, she's not showing as pregnant at the moment so this probably isn't a leak which would usually only happen as the result of a fall or something that has caused the leak or would happen once she is seriously pregnant and has a lot of babies inside so is stretched and has just moved something awkwardly internally...we can rule out the latter, but has she had any falls? Did you clean off her lower area fully, and did you see anything that might have suggested cuts? There is something that looks like matted hair on the right of her urethral cone, have you had a look under that area of hair? I get a feeling that if it's not internal like my Theresa had then it might be an external cut that's hiding in the hair there...run your finger against the hair flow so you can clearly see grey skin and you should be able to spot any cuts on the skin fairly well, although this can take a while as we all know degus like to wriggle out of the dominance hold :-)
Not much else I can do really, if there's no cause for the blood that we can find (unless you accept she is pregnant and it's linked to a fall she might have had when you weren't around) then you'll have to take her to a vet that knows at least a little about degus...good luck with that :-P
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Post by deguconvert on Nov 17, 2010 7:00:37 GMT
I totally agree with the suggestion to get her a female companion. She needs to have that just "because," but if she does prove to be "with puppies" then she will greatly appreciate the additional help that another female will give her. I think having her out from Dave and Declan will help resolve their conflicts as well . . . although I expect that they will mourn her disappearance from their midst.
I hope there will be no difficulty for her as a result of the blood you have found. It is an abnormal happening, but hopefully something that can be easily explained and resolved. The poor little miss! Reviled by the pet store as aggressive and a biter, and then miss sexed!! I'm so glad she is with you, Nicky! You have such a way with your goos!
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Post by nickymills30 on Nov 17, 2010 7:09:45 GMT
Thanks smux.
I did worry about leaving 'dolly' without a friend for so long, but also worried about getting her a friend in case the new goo wouldn't accept the babies, but as you've said, she should help.
So, i;m on the look out for a little girl, and don't worry, i won't be going back to P@H's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I did have a look through her fur, and can't find any cuts/scabs,, but will be bathing the area today, didn't last night as i know she'd had enough when she bit me!
Thanks again guys xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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Post by nickymills30 on Nov 17, 2010 9:47:10 GMT
Right, off i went to P@H, earlier ready to raise the roof! Spoke to the store manager who informed me, because 'dolly' came from the rescue section, the procedure is different, to if she had come from them. At first he said, basically, i should have checked, and because i;d signed the adoption form, they wheren't to blame. He also said, that, when animals are taken in, to the adoption section, if they are told its a boy, they just accept it! I just lost my temper then, saying they shouldn't have a lisence and whilst i was on the subject, told him to look at the cage their goo's where in. Said it wasn;t acceptable for them to be on wooden pellets, and that they should def have a wheel. He tried to brush off the wooden pellets, but did agree they should have a wheel. He then asked me, what i wanted them to do. So i said, ' i want you to give me a cage' He said he couldn't give me a cage, but could knock 25% off. Then some other customers came along, so he helped served them. But i wouldn't give up. I think he thought i was going to cause trouble so said, i;ll knock 40% off, so i said, try 50% and i'll think about it! lol. But when he went to get the cage, it had been used, and i think he felt a bit stupid as he was the store manager and should of known his staff had put a used cage out for sale. So i said, knock a bit more off, and i'll consider taking it. So, i came out of P@H with their thicket cage for £10!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I',m not fussed that it's been used, and i don't think dolly will either lol. But will be emailing their head office, and contacting environmental health, who issue their lisences.
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Post by Bexi87 on Nov 17, 2010 9:52:32 GMT
Well done you, £10 for a cage is a bargin (although free would have been free!)
It really does amaze me how different PaH can be depending on where you live.
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Post by nuttz on Nov 17, 2010 9:52:40 GMT
OMG nicky.......everyday this week something major has been happening with your furries... hope everything works out ok, im sure it will hun!!!
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Post by nickymills30 on Nov 17, 2010 11:08:34 GMT
i know, you couldn't make it up lol xx
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