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Post by smux on Dec 3, 2010 22:45:10 GMT
At least we know almost with 100% certainty that her life is no longer in any real danger, I think that's a pretty big point to make here...obviously there's still a chance she could speed downhill from here at any point, but there's more chance of her healing on her own without any help from any of us IMO.
How long has she been noticeably fatter? There was talk recently about dead babies inside degus and the health risks that might pose, if she has been a bit big for a few months it is a tiny possibility that this is why as long as you ignore the fact that she can't be pregnant (sometimes you have to ignore a fact as it may not be true and the absence of that fact makes sense of the rest of the facts :-)), but then again if you start ignoring facts then all sorts of things might be possible so it's probably best not to...let's just hope you get hold of someone who can help by giving more advice than I already did :-)
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Post by deguconvert on Dec 4, 2010 6:34:41 GMT
I'm very glad that she is doing OK. That is a relief!! She certainly bears keeping and eye on, if only for the bleeding. It is a puzzle that she is noticeably fatter than the other two . . . if this wasn't the case before. Will she let you touch and hold her at all?
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Post by listracian on Dec 4, 2010 21:49:38 GMT
I don't think she has been fatter for that much longer but then again to be honest it's not noticeable unless you are really looking. She is still being more docile then the others but she is alert, they have made all made a lovely warm bed and am keeping a good eye on her. Like at the moment because our car has just driven in the drive she is very alert and listening. I love the fact they all know the sound of our car!
It's just so confusing, there really is no way she can be pregnant but I dunno what else it could be. She will let me stroke her and stuff she isn't so keen on being picked up but then out of all of them she never has been keen on being picked up. She will happily be stroked though and is eating and everything. Tis so very odd.
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Post by smux on Dec 4, 2010 22:24:38 GMT
Now the weather is a bit better outside, is the vet an option for you yet? Well, I say better outside, it's clearer HERE but may be just as bad as it was yesterday for you. I assume not if you mention the sound of the car :-)
I think it's times like this, when you have to be really looking to spot if the degu's any heavier or lighter than normal, that we all wish we'd followed the advice on degutopia to take regular notes on weights and such of our degus...I don't do it either, I daren't think the trouble I'd go through trying to do it with these guys, plus I don't have any scales at the moment although I plan to get some for cooking so might start weighing them too.
If she's gone back to normal, or close to it, then it is safe to assume she's just been through a phantom pregnancy (as you suggested it might have been) or at the very least a phantom miscarriage. The fact that the others are at her beck and call does make me wonder if it is something more than that though, at the very least it is probably something they can sense on each other, we all know animals are great at sensing problems and illnesses.
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Post by listracian on Dec 4, 2010 23:26:00 GMT
It is clear here but the vets were fully booked this morning and not opening tomorrow. I have her out at the moment and she is wandering around... and weeing on my bed... as I just got some water in her but she now isn't eating. I reckon she is just on her way out now, she still wanders about but is moving slowly, she is an okay weight - I just weighed her and she was taking the water - but then has just gone to the toilet. She is still alert but has in the last hour seemed to have deteriorated. I am pretty certain if she went to the vets right now they would probably put her down, I have seen some of my others I have had like this and I know it's not a good sign. Part of me is thinking she is better to just stay and enjoy being with her sister and cousin for a bit but I dunno she doesn't seem to be suffering as she is happy to come out for a stroke and stuff but trying to feed her anything now and she isn't taking it. She is still moving about and i wont get a chance to take her to the vets till Tuesday so I am just gonna have to keep an eye on her. I have a dropper thing to get water down her and she was taking it so will just have to see if she perks up or not. If I am honest I am surprised this lot have lasted this long, they had been so heavily inbred.
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Post by smux on Dec 5, 2010 0:16:33 GMT
I agree with you that she is better off with her sisters if she is destined to go soon, but don't give up on her yet...hope for the best but prepare for the worst, so assume she is going to survive but don't pin all your hopes on it. As you say, she is in no pain or at least doesn't seem to be showing it, she is happy and if she dies happy then you will have done your best for her.
The vets may have been fully booked but in your case you should have said it was an emergency and they could cancel a less important customer to deal with this life-or-death situation...it is possible that whatever the problem is it could be dealt with before she goes past the point of no return.
Elsevier was exactly the same the night before he died, happy taking water but wouldn't eat anything...you could try buying her some baby food tomorrow or blend up some food and possibly feed it to her through the dropper so she gets some nutrients into her body to keep her going. Or you could just accept it is her time and let her go with your blessing, it is entirely up to you, there is a point at which you have to stop flogging a dead horse and accept reality...personally I think YOU have and maybe I have to, it's just I hate for any animal to die if there is a possible alternative although I don't really know for sure the full gravity of the situation as I'm not there :-)
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Post by listracian on Dec 5, 2010 0:24:32 GMT
It's possible I could have gotten to the vets this morning but I reckon she would have been put down. They are great with small animals but they know that the risk of helping them sometimes outweighs the pros. They have seen my degu's so many times at various points that I am pretty certain what would happen.
The way she is going I doubt she will be alive by morning, she might as she put up a fight when I picked her up earlier but we will see. I have seen this happen before and these little ones deteriorate so quickly. She is happy or at least seems it, she is chirping at the other girls and they are grooming her. She still felt quite warm and so we shall see how it goes. I won't hold out much hope for her though but I guess we will just see. I have warned the parents and dad said he is willing to find somewhere in the garden to bury her if she does go, maybe near where her mum or other sister is.
If she is about in the morning I might find some veggies and make a degu smoothie or something see if she will take that but she isn't interested in any of the food I have nor the hay. Just a waiting game me thinks.
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Post by smux on Dec 5, 2010 0:37:38 GMT
Ah well, she'll be in my thoughts tomorrow whichever way she goes...if she's warm, active and happy I hold out hope that she'll be the same tomorrow. Elsevier was definitely neither of the first two on that final night, and I'm not 100% sure he was the last one either, but he was content sleeping for one last time with his brother and I am sure of that.
Anyway, bedtime for me, I'll check the forum sometime tomorrow either from the volunteering place (I have monday and wednesday off, I let them choose my days to work) or home before I go...depends if I remember before or after leaving :-)
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Post by nickymills30 on Dec 5, 2010 9:28:58 GMT
hope she has pulled through hun xx
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Post by smux on Dec 7, 2010 21:31:12 GMT
Any update on her progress? I notice you haven't been around much but you posted today so perhaps there's some news for us?
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Post by listracian on Dec 7, 2010 21:45:18 GMT
She is alive and well, she is still recovering and so moving slower then usual but otherwise she is fine
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Post by deguconvert on Dec 7, 2010 22:08:00 GMT
Have you been able to determine if her blood came of a puncture wound or out of the genitals?
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Post by listracian on Dec 7, 2010 22:22:55 GMT
No not yet, she is running away if I try to pick her up and I don't want to grab her in case I do something that may upset her again. I haven't really had a chance to go to the vets due to work and stuff so am just letting her rest. She is moving about and happily eating hay and stuff so we shall see. I am keeping a close eye on her and my brother is also coming in my room and checking on her and she hasn't shown any bad signs. She just seemed to sleep for two days and then she seemed fine so kinda glad I didn't take her to the vets as she would have probably been put down.
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Post by smux on Dec 7, 2010 22:35:01 GMT
Glad to hear she is on the mend, or at least showing signs of being so...degus are hardy animals, I don't understand why vets don't give them every chance to pull through rather than putting them down because it's the "kind" thing to do to them. With any animal, I would always go for the alternative whatever it took, I would give them a fighting chance to pull through and give them the help they needed every step of the way...not everyone can do that, of course, so I suppose I am lucky in that respect.
Forgive me for not remembering, but has she always been this wary of you picking her up? Because it would worry me if she wasn't normally like this but now she is, it is definitely a good indicator that something is up but I have no idea what until you have managed to pick her up and we get an idea of her situation. However, I am 100% on your side about not trying to pick her up or hold her if she is trying to get away, the girlies don't like me holding them either and they will do suicide jumps from my hands to get away so I try not to pick them up unless I am low down just in case they manage to escape and I instead try to get them onto my shoulders instead where they don't usually feel so uncomfortable.
Give her a treat from me :-)
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Post by nickymills30 on Dec 8, 2010 7:16:29 GMT
lovely to hear she is doing ok xx
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Post by listracian on Jan 4, 2011 23:49:57 GMT
My girl is bleeding again, rather heavily... I have been out all day and only just got in which is annoying as I don't know how long she has been bleeding for, guessing not long as there isn't much blood in the cage but a lot on her. Shall be taking her down the vets tomorrow.
The odd thing is... timewise it isn't that different to when it happened last month.
Degu's having periods is unheard of isn't it? It's just so odd that roughly the same time the following month she is bleeding again.
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Post by smux on Jan 5, 2011 0:44:32 GMT
I have exactly the same problem with the non-pregnant of the baby girls. I'd noticed a small smattering of blood around the cage in the past but I inspected all the girls and boys in the cage and couldn't find anything untoward until a few days ago when I spotted a trail of blood on mesh (the lookout isn't covered in cardboard, it'd be dangerous for them if it was as there's a 3ft drop down each side) and managed to trace it back to her. On inspection, her lady bits had a few bits of blood on and I thought she might have cut herself so took her into the kitchen where the cotton buds are and prepared the usual mix. While cleaning her, a small deluge of blood came out and I cleaned it up and kept on in the area to ensure there wasn't any more. There was a little more to come out, but barely a few drops worth in each case and also in subsequent cases when checking her. She has seemed otherwise fine so I haven't bothered worrying/bothering other people with posting about it as I'd been a part of this thread and a few others with much the same issue. She seems perfectly fine to clean herself off and does so regularly, which is a good thing because she is a little bit wary of me for some reason (one, sometimes two, of the new babies are and so is she, the other three will come running to me whenever I open the cage :-)) and it is a pain to clean her and check her out, plus she hates the domination hold. It would be interesting to hear the vet's prognosis, as I am inclined to give her baytril in case it is an infection in her internals (it wouldn't harm her to do so if it isn't an infection) or to go the camomile tea route (camomile tea in their water bottle as it is a natural remedy for degu infections according to a poster on this forum :-)) and ensure they all have a clean bill of health...luckily I have a chinese herbalist locally and also a Holland & Barratt if he's no use, so I can get the proper stuff rather than the processed supermarket brands. Oh, and I haven't been to the vets either because the prognosis seemed okay with yours and I was managing to keep on top of the issue with her and she seemed otherwise fine (better than yours fared at first, I remember she was at death's door but her sisters refused to let her open it :-)) so I would see how things went. Plus (cruel as it sounds) I could handle it better if she died than if one of the more regular ones died (one of the 8 adults...although I will never think of my original 4 as adults even though they are now 12 months old :-)). If I was working and had a steady income, my priority would be to get her back to health by taking her to the vet's, but I have to prioritise and there's 13 other degus that need to be considered before her. Don't get me wrong, if she takes a turn for the worst she'll be right down to the EXPENSIVE vets to be seen to with me paying something like £35 (can't remember the amount) for a consultation rather than taking her to the RSPCA whose rodent expertise is flaky at best (that's ignoring the fact that degus aren't rodents exactly) and it's pot luck whether you get a vet who knows anything about them, and as I said above I am keeping a close eye on her and checking her daily when and if I manage to outsmart her and catch her (which isn't often, I have to plan carefully and strike quickly :-)) There's actually a few other things going on with other degus that I haven't posted about, but I am on top of them and haven't felt the need to post about it to see anyone else's thoughts :-P
Remember, if the vet suggests the "put to sleep" option, decline unless he is 100% sure of the prognosis he gives, and consider going to another vet to confirm it (or at the very least wait until you've posted his prognosis here and see what others say as they might have had to deal with similar issues with past degus of their own, or perhaps talk to Chloe at Degutopia or research the problem online to find out more before deciding). I don't think she is ill enough that she will require such a final treatment, not if she recovers from it for almost a month and goes back to full health like that...at the very worst, it's an infection that needs some medicine of some sort to be administered (at the worst in that case, it'll be regular ointment-soaked cotton buds up the lady bits on a daily basis to get right to the infected area...not something I would be comfortable doing, but if I have to I have to :-P). Good luck for tomorrow!
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Post by listracian on Jan 5, 2011 9:55:00 GMT
Okay my girl is on antibiotics. If your girl is bleeding for no apparent reason I urge you to take her to the vets. As the vet was putting pressure on her sides so much blood came out with her urine and he said he could feel that something wasn't right. She is on antibiotics for a week and then I have to take her back to see if that makes a difference. He is pretty worried because he said any animal like her shouldn't be bleeding like that and it always means that something is wrong - especially if there is no chance of them being pregnant.
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Post by smux on Jan 5, 2011 10:52:13 GMT
I'll give her some baytril (have some from when Elsevier went to the vet's) and if it doesn't clear up I will get something done about it. She has only minor problems with it and it is coming from a different area to yours if it comes out with her urine. I don't know how long I will wait, but if I remember right antibiotics take a while to kick in so I would have to wait to see if anything gets better. I know it's not due to a fall or any injury, I've already discounted that, and she is fairly active most of the time.
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