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Post by samovilafox on Jun 30, 2010 22:58:28 GMT
Hello all! I'm new to the board and have some Degu queries for you!
I work at a small pet supply store that sells a very small amount of pocket pets. (At the moment Guinea Pigs are the biggest ticket we carry.) We have a new small animal supplier that carries Degus and are considering adding them to the mix. Now, before I get flooded with hate mail, please let me explain a few things!
We are not one of those covert pet shops who will lie to your face and say our animals come from Happy Fluff Sunshine Farms in the Loving Smiles Valley. I have no qualms about telling people our critters come from a fish supplier who may or may not get them from a broker who gets them from a breeder. (I'm not sure if there's a broker in the mix somewhere for degus or not...) At any rate, you're going to get the cold hard facts from me at my store. That includes me saying I don't think a degu (or G.Pig or gerbil or hamster etc) is right for you.
The bulk of our sales is pet food. We really don't make a huge amount on pet sales. There for, these would very likely be store pets for us to love and care for and help educate people on the ways of the degu. (Also I think I might like a little degu family of my own, but that's another story.) As such, we want to make sure we are equipped to care for these little guys. The enclosure we have is approx 47 1/2" long by 19" high by 20" deep/wide. It is comprised mostly of glass, plexey glass and metal. Would this be suitable? Here are the two major concerns I am facing regarding this enclosure: 1. Plexey glass. Can degus chew it? 2. Water bottle. How to rig it. Any suggestions? Hanging it on the out side with the nozzle facing in really isn't an option. Also, do those hanging, pill shaped "no chew" ones work for degus? They worked well for my gerbils.
How high can these little guys jump? The top of this enclosure has liftable vents and top load openings. (All of which now have more wire wrapping them closed than Flava Flave's mouth...)
Temperature: What's too high, what's too low, what's just right?
Hospital tanks: If heaven forbid one of our little friends gets hurt, is a 10 gallon tank big enough to house a degu while it gets better?
I think that's all the questions I have for now. Please understand, we have no intention of bringing an animal into the store unless they would be a good fit. Or any intention of letting a degu leave the store unless the new owner would be a good fit. Any advice or suggestions would be welcome! Thank you very much, and I apologize for the long post!
Samovilafox (Sarah)
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Post by smux on Jul 1, 2010 0:47:59 GMT
www.degutopia.co.uk/deguhouse.htm will give you an idea of how many degus could live in an enclosure of whatever size you put into it (in cm). Plexiglass isn't perfect for degus but as long as there is some form of vent so air can get in and out they should be fine. They can't (apparently) get a purchase into glass/wood from the inside of a cage, they need to get a corner to gnaw at to actually make any headway into the material. I have to say though, it doesn't sound like large enough for more than a couple of degus. Re water bottle...give them either a glass one or a small plastic one. MY guys never gnaw it, they know it contains water and they like to drink water so they do the smart thing and leave it alone...however if you're worried cover it in some sort of tube so that gets gnawed before the bottle does. This bottle should be able to hang from the roof by wire if you have nowhere to attach it. Re your supplier. Check each degu's eye carefully for cataracts (cloudy areas, sometimes clearly visible white specks) and refuse to take any degu that DEFINITELY has cataracts. It's a sign of inbreeding and this causes a higher incidence of health issues and shorter lifespans. Also learn how to sex a degu properly, don't trust your breeder's advice about whether they're male or female, degus are notoriously difficult to sex at a young age and you'll want to check all degus before selling them on (literally right before you sell them to someone would be a good time, just to be doubly sure, too) Degus can jump high, but they're not exceptional jumpers for their size like mice are...a dormouse could probably jump higher than most degus...you're talking about maybe a foot or so for a fit adult degu. As long as the enclosure is secured, they'll be fine, they don't usually try to escape unless they're bored, and it's your job to ensure they're not bored :-) Re temperature...Degutopia says "Degus are extremely sensitive to high temperatures and can develop heat stroke easily due to their inability to sweat. For this reason, you should always make sure your degu cage is in a room at room temperature (18-22ºC)- it's a good idea to keep a thermometer by the cage. In hot weather, move the cage into a cooler room and make sure the cage is NEVER in direct sunlight. Degus can safely be kept between a temperature range of 15-25ºC, but should not spend long periods at these temperature extremes." I would suggest you don't keep a light in the cage/box as this will bring the temperature up...rely on natural light if at all possible. If not, use a low wattage bulb. Lastly, degutopia has all you should need to know about degus including keeping them entertained and providing for them cage-wise. I personally don't like the cage you've described above, but it'll do at a pinch...you'd do better with an all-metal mesh cage for them.
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Post by samovilafox on Jul 1, 2010 1:36:55 GMT
Thanks for all the info! That clears a lot up! We have one loyal degu customer who expressed interest in one more degu should we get them in. Since they do best in groups we would most likely have 3 max 2 min. Which brings us to another one of our concerns. While we've never ordered degus before to know if the breeder would properly sex them, most of our animals are not sexed, so we just assume the degus won't be either. After working in a pet store for 8+ years, believe me, I know how fast 2 animals can turn into 17 -_- and we really don't want to go into the degu breeding business ourselves. While we do have a divider for the enclosure, it's made of thick plastic. I don't think it would prove to be much of a challenge for a particularly amourus degu. I think our big deal breakers will be water bottles, chewing, and temperature. While the entire system the enclosure is in is very well ventilated, depending on if our AC is on the fritz, in the summer it's not uncommon for the temp in the system to reach 75-81F. Fortunately the enclosure the degus would be in is at the very top, and has the best air flow and temp control. Thanks for the info! Any more is always welcome! We like to be as educated as possible on different critters. Whether we carry them or not. We'd love to have these little guys with us, but if you all think it's not a perfect idea, then that will be the end of it. We don't want unhappy furries! Samovilafox (Sarah)
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Post by deguconvert on Jul 1, 2010 1:40:06 GMT
Degutopia does have great information on it, but please feel free to ask any and all questions you may have. Follow this link deguworld.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=behaviour&action=display&thread=5337 and there will be a relatively brief and concentrated reading of things that you need to know about degus. I applaud your efforts to learn what you can before jumping in, especially as a pet store owner. P@H has a rather sour reputation here, but recognition and appreciation is also given to the few P@H that have been well informed, kept their animals kindly and responsibly, and went above and beyond in helping their customers. You'll not be braised over coals here. ;D
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Post by samovilafox on Jul 1, 2010 1:59:55 GMT
Thank you for the welcome! ;D There is one other question I had that I haven't been able to find the answer to. How attached can degus get to a human? If snuggle these little guys and they get used to me are they going to be miserable in a different home? Or am I just being conceded? Samovilafox (Sarah)
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Post by smux on Jul 1, 2010 2:17:37 GMT
Also P@H is a very good company if you are a knowledgeable degu owner, you are unlikely to make any profits from degus beyond the actual animals themselves, the online stores have proper degu food all sewn up perfectly. You might be able to source ingredients and make your own degu mix, of course, and provide certain other requirements that those stores are lacking (things like degu-safe logs and branches, for instance...about all I have seen is willow sticks at P@H and that's not the greatest variety of choice) but degu-specific food and accessories aren't really an easy sale for you unless you have degu owners nearby who prefer to come to you rather than order online. Look at degutopia for the types of bedding required (dust extracted, mostly) and acquaint yourself with all their needs then build a fact-sheet you can give to customers complete with the price list for the items in your store, and it might help with profits from degus. For the most part a degu is a chinchilla accessory-wise, just on a smaller scale...they use the same kinds of bedding, and if you sell gerbil/hamster accessories you'll probably find most of that fits into the degu sale option fairly easily. Discount any toys or cages made of plastic from that, of course...a lot of the rest of it will be fine. Get this list together and post it here and we'll comment on the suitability of each item where we can.
All in all, degus are probably going to end up being a hard profit for you, but if you succeed in converting enough of your local customers to degu owners then you'll probably make a good profit...unlike hamster or guinea pig owners, we REALLY are slaves to our degus and we'll spend our last pennies on making them happy even if it means we're short of money for our own needs. If you had maybe 10 owners, that's £100-£150 start up costs for everything they need to house the degus (although unless you resell cages, you won't see too much of that) then anything up to £20 a month per owner (so £200 a month in gross sales). If you include a few niches in there (degu toys, for instance, or certain treats) you might get an extra £5 per customer per month.
Regarding the temperature...if the cage gets too hot and the air conditioning isn't working, it is IMPORTANT that you rehouse the degus somewhere cooler for the simple reason that they have no way to regulate their body temperature. If they go into heatstroke you have to act quick and hold them in cool water (head above, of course) to cool their body down (and they hate water), I am sure you would rather have them housed somewhere cooler instead if you have AC problems...so have a fallback cage somewhere cool where you can move them in emergencies.
Re the divider...a piece of thick mesh (not chicken wire...they'll bite through it fairly quickly, surprisingly) would work well at dividing them, although the fact that they're in a glass cage doesn't make it easy to attach (another reason for mesh cage :-)). Thick plastic will do at a pinch, but you will probably need to make a wooden "slot" to hold the plastic in place. If the wood is triangular (with one side to the plastic, one to the glass and the third in plain view) they will find it hard to gnaw their way through it.
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Post by smux on Jul 1, 2010 2:28:15 GMT
And regarding your Q about attachment...sure, they'll get attached to you, but you'll get more attached to them and you'll miss each and every single one you sell. They'll get over it, and they'll be happy in their new homes once they're used to their new owners. If they're handled regularly by you and other staff members, they will be excellent new pets to their new owners. Degus form bonds with their owners fairly easily and there is some level of detachment when they leave to go to a new home but after a short honeymoon period they'll settle in fine mostly because you'll sell them in pairs or higher and they have their brothers/sisters to communicate with thus they still have some sort of bond to fall back on.
Something I didn't touch upon before...degus are notorious for fighting and not getting on with each other, although this is less common among related degus...you need to understand when a fight is playing and when it's for real and you need to be able to get into their cage QUICKLY if a fight ensues or (to put it bluntly) you're going to end up with damaged goods that may turn out to be too damaged to sell. Related degus rarely fight, but it has been known to happen.
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Post by samovilafox on Jul 1, 2010 3:50:43 GMT
Hmmm most interesting.... If you have any experience around gerbils, do you know if a degu fight is much like a gerbil fight? With my four boys you did have to know what was a fight and what was play. Didn't help that one of them was an uber bully. -_- But I digress... That is a major consideration since we just have animals sent to us, we have no idea if they're related or not. As far as profit goes, very simply, we won't make one. Period. And we accept that. I don't think we've made a profit on an animal in over 6 years. They usually stay with us so long that they literally eat up any profit we would have made on them in no time. So why do we carry them you might ask. Basically because our corporate office makes us. "It justifies us as a pet shop." I believe is the reason they give us. <sigh> Any way, they are also notorious for not supplying us with every thing we need to make sure these animals are perfectly content. So a lot of what our critters have comes out of our own pockets. Which is another major consideration we have to work out before we decide whether or not to bring in something new. That coupled with the temperature thing I think will be the main considerations we still need to debate. While the AC has been fine this year, (knock on wood) it's not uncommon for it to start blowing air that is only slightly warmer than the air out side. -_- In that event, we really have no other place to house the guys for more than a few hours. We're still going to discuss the issue at work for a good while before we come to any decisions, but all the info is most helpful. Thank you again! Samovilafox (Sarah)
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Post by smux on Jul 1, 2010 4:09:32 GMT
I know nothing about gerbils, but if you look up "chittering degu" on youtube you will hear the sound they make when playfighting...they've very easy to read :-)
Perhaps you should become a degu owner yourself for a few months before making a decision about whether to keep them or not, it may help you understand their needs better than words on a forum ever could...you did say you might anyway...maybe you could even take turns with other colleagues and see how everyone feels :-)
Where are you based? If it's within the M25 I could pop over with a couple of my little monsters, although they won't be much use in their carry box. At the very least you'd get to see what a handful they can be, and also how friendly and attached to their owners they are although mine aren't anywhere near as attached to me as some are to their owners, I like to give them a little independence on purpose so they have a life of their own when I'm not around the house :-)
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Post by samovilafox on Jul 1, 2010 22:43:32 GMT
That's very kind to offer to visit, but as I'm in the US it might be hard for you. Our degu customer has offered to visit with hers. We actually have had a couple visit. Both owned by a lady that carried them around in her bra. I'm not going to discuss that any further for reasons that are probably obvious. I thought about a pair of degus for myself but the more research I do, the more I think they might not be for me at this time. Any thing I bring into house right now will have to be housed in a 38gal tank. Actually part of the thought of getting them at the store was to see how I felt about them and maybe get a pair later on when I have more room. Another possible snag is that our lovely Governor just yesterday signed a bill restricting "exotic dangerous" animal ownership in the state. While this bill mostly applies to actual dangerous animals (Big cats, bears, primates, etc) it's skimmed down from a bill that originally would have banned any thing not from the US. Including hamsters, gerbils, G Pigs, koi, etc. Governor Stickland has a habit of being vague. Actually so far we haven't been able to find a copy of the bill to know exactly what is legal to sell. This country is currently under kind of an "exotic animal hysteria". Most people think "dangerous" could apply to any animal that would harm the eco system if released. Large constricting snakes are mentioned in the bill but I haven't found any specifics yet. I would really like to know if the Ball Python we have is now contraband or not! So at this point we need a copy of the bill to figure out if degus are even going to be legal for us to carry! Provided they are, I do have another ponder for you. Food. All we I've been able to find in our ordering system so far, (we get it for our one customer) is Sunseed's Degu blend. Is this a pretty good food? I've read that you can give them G.Pig food but I'm not sure I understand that. G.Pig food has added vitamin C since G.Pigs can't produce their own. Is that bad for the degus? Again, thank you so much for all the help. Any one wanna buy a Ball Python?? Samovilafox (Sarah)
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Post by deguconvert on Jul 2, 2010 3:02:16 GMT
Sunseed is a very good degu food, but not all degus love it. Guinea Pig food is OK, so long as there is no sugar, molassas, corn syrup, or fructose in it. It has to be sugar free. Also, there mustn't be any dried fruits in it.
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Post by smux on Jul 2, 2010 9:07:15 GMT
Chile is part of the US, although I have no idea if it's one of the STATES of America and if that will make any difference regarding legality...and that's always the way they get you. Degus probably could harm the ecosystem if released, they're considered a pest in Chile because of their liking for crops...however, degus are NOT exotic-dangerous animals, so until you get a copy of the bill from your local governor and you have shown willing (tried your best) regarding getting a copy (keep copies of all emails sent, all letters sent and times/dates of all phone calls made and who you spoke to regarding it) you can plead ignorance and it should be accepted as a good reason.
However, I took a quick look online and found that it may be he bans the IMPORT of said animals, doesn't mention sale (although without seeing the bill, as you say, they're vague)...http://www2.nbc4i.com/news/2010/jun/30/2/agreement-keeps-livestock-care-amendment-ballot-ar-128098/ has the info I found, although it may not be the bill you were speaking of :-) "The Govenor says he will also push for tougher criminal penalties for "inappropriate word"-fighting and kennel confinement abuse in puppy mills as well as an immediate ban on importing exotic and dangerous animals." You'll probably have more luck going directly to him, or going to the police and asking them for advice on law regarding forced ignorance, although they'll probably just be lazy and say "don't do it if you're not sure"
As DC said, guinea pig food is alright. MIX is fine, but pellets are usually bound with molasses so you should steer clear of them. Pellets are also found in mixes so watch out for them, they look like round black sticks usually. Anything with vitamin C added is good for a degu as long as you don't give them enough that they overdose on it, although that's unlikely to happen...degus suffer from the same deficiency as guinea pigs. You could consider sourcing ingredients and making your own mix for degus, as I've mentioned before...nightwishraven would probably be the best person to speak to regarding that...and if you can make enough you could sell it online to reach a wider group of degu owners and get your profit that way (yeah, I know, a lot of work :-P).
I'd take your customer up on her offer, take a look at the degu for yourself (although preferably not when they're bra-diving...and BTW, they all tend to do that or worse, they like to hide in clothes for some reason :-)) and maybe you'll decide you want one for yourself.
Oh, Chile has banned the export of degus anyway so you couldn't legally import degus from there to sell so the import side of the law isn't an issue (not that you planned to, as you had a supplier...but they couldn't either, legally)...it's been illegal for years. A number of degus in captivity now are inbred with a plethora of illnesses, although there are many healthy ones bred from two separate branches of the family tree. If your supplier has the healthy ones then you'll be doing the degu world a favour by selling them :-)
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Post by samovilafox on Jul 2, 2010 23:22:40 GMT
You are all so nice to share this info with me! ;D Our supplier is located in North Carolina, so any degu we get will be from the US. I seriously doubt degus are on the banned list, but I would never put it past them... Their main concern now is snakes. The problem all started down in Florida where a toddler was killed by the family's pet boa. The problem was further prodded on when several hurricanes (Katrina for one) tore up homes and snake farms, releasing the little dears into the ever glades where they are supposedly killing wild life, people and pets with out discrimination and holding up liquor stores and starting on line phishing scams. (Obviously exaggerated, but to read some of the pet industry magazines we get, not by much.) Which is why states across the nation, including my home state Ohio, are passing bans against large constricting snakes. Apparently none of the law makers have stopped to think that while a snake problem in Florida might be concerning, once an Ohio winter rolls around, the little buggers are pretty much done for. -_- But again, I digress... Thank you for the info on food. I really don't care for the mixed foods regardless of the animal. IMHO it's too easy for critters to pick out their favorite seeds and snacks and leave the rest. For rabbits and G.Pigs we stock, and I always recommend Kaytee Timothy Hay pellets. Would this be ok to blend with degu food? We can also get Oxbow, Vitakraft/LM (which IMO is kind of a meh food), Marshalls, and I think Zupreme. I checked the availability of cages from our vendor (to order for resale) and sadly was under whelmed. I think I found one cage that looked remotely passable. I'll have to dig the URL out for you all so you can register an opinion. My other thought was, what about bird cages? Could a customer trick out a bird cage to suite degus? And one last question for today. I noticed a few days ago that the little wooden unfinished bird houses I used to get my gerbils are now at the dollar store two doors down from us. My thought was, at a dollar each, we could easily buy several of these, (and replace when necessary) get some wood or metal planks and make a little degu city in our store enclosure. The entrances to these houses are your standard bird house entrance. If a degu couldn't fit its self inside, would it chew the hole to make it big enough, or would it most likely just destroy the whole bird house? Again, I can't thank you enough for all the great info. Samovilafox (Sarah)
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Post by smux on Jul 3, 2010 0:30:35 GMT
A cage should preferably be made of mesh rather than bars, as degus are strong little buggers and I am sure if they wanted to they could over time get through barred cages, and also degus like to climb their cage walls and show off their dexterity, so a birdcage wouldn't be ideal...but I am sure if the owner checked on their pets often enough and kept them happy enough that they don't want to escape then a birdcage would be ideal. Bear in mind that the escape hatch will definitely need to be secured on a birdcage, degus love to gnaw at it to try to get out and it won't take long to work out how to do it (I've heard of a dwarf hamster that launches himself at the escape hatch, which is stupid as it opens inwards in his case...a degu wouldn't be that stupid :-)) You might have to look around for other vendors for cages, perhaps a specialist? Here in the UK, pet stores have www.sharplesgrant.com/acatalog/small_animal_products.html for degu (and other "specialist" pets) cages...they will also ship them overseas, I believe, so if you have no luck elsewhere this is an option...and the Sharples & Grant 3-tier cage at the bottom of www.sharplesgrant.com/acatalog/cages__n__homes.html is the one I have and it seems the one many owners choose unless they go for the single or double level ones (directly above). If you became an importer of those cages, you may find a new profit avenue from selling them on ebay or just selling them from the shop itself...these cages go for £50-£80 over here, depends how lucky you get with ebay or looking around (I paid £50 :-)). Another option is looking for someone who'll prefabricate cages for you, and this would not only mean you'd be able to get custom cages for your store but you'd also be able to get cages made to your customer's specifications, although standard cage designs would work well too...however, the sharples & grant cage I mention is flatpacked (and, I should point out, fairly simple to assemble) so storing them will be a lot easier, and cleaning out is also a lot easier than the prefabricated "permanently built" ones as you can get right into it and partially take it apart to get into the middle and everything :-) If the hole isn't big enough for the degu to get into they MAY gnaw their way in, but you'll need to find out first what wood the box is made of and also how it is held together...you may find it isn't suitable for degus. Even if it is (and if it isn't, they shouldn't really have it), you could always file the entrance down to make it bigger. Either way, you probably need to give us measurements of the box itself so we can advise whether it's large enough for 2+ degus to live in...the bigger the better so you may want to put two in the cage and remove one wall from each so it's one bigger box with two entrances (one on top, one at the front, maybe?). Re the food, pellets are fine for degus (not sure about timothy hay pellets, I'll get to that in a minute) but a little variety keeps them from being bored and lets them pick and choose a little so they aren't eating the same old same old every day. 50/50 pellets and mixed food is a good mix, although more pellets is fine if you really don't want to leave it up to the degu. Eventually they'll eat the pellets (and thus get their requirements) when the rest of it runs out so if you give them less mix than they need to survive then they'll be forced to eat the pellets as well (and I forgot to mention before that degus are notorious hoarders, even worse than hamsters, and unlike hamsters they tend to actually eat what they hoard unless you clean their cage out and take it away from them). Re timothy hay pellets...they would probably prefer timothy hay in its natural form, but if you can provide a little natural hay and the pellets too I am sure they'd be happy with that. I'm not actually sure of the ingredients of each of the pellet packs so I can't be definitely sure...if it's 100% timothy hay they'll be fine with it, but if there's anything like molasses or other binding ingredients then definitely not :-) They also enjoy alfalfa, I myself give mine mini bales (compressed alfalfa in little blocks) although I will one day buy them some proper alfalfa hay to see if they prefer it. Hmm, snakes kill people, let's ban snakes! Guns kill people, let's ban...d**n, the right to bear arms and the right to arm bears!...Guns don't kill people, people do...no, bullets do! Snakes don't kill people, venom and the inability to recognise which snake it is and get the antivenom into the body (or loss of breath, if it's a constrictor) does. Cars kill people, let's all ride on bikes...no, bikes kill people too, let's walk...no, pollution kills people (although without cars there'll be less), let's not go anywhere. I'm sure you agree before I said all that, of course, but they're useful arguments...let's go deeper, as I do so well :-) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_causes_of_death_by_rateLet's assume "poisoning" is the cause of death by snakebite (I couldn't see any more specific one, I looked for animal attack)...per 100,000 deaths worldwide, 5.6 (0.61%) are caused by poisoning. Compare this to violence at 9/100,000 (or 0.98%) or suicide at 14/100,000 (1.53%)...also, more people die from falling or drowning than from poisoning. Almost 4x as many die from RTAs, so banning the car would save many more lives (although it'd probably kill a few if ambulances were illegal :-))...Add to this that even if poisoning IS including snakebite, it's not JUST snakebite so 5.6/100,000 is a gross overestimation. More people die from Malaria (20.4/100,000) than RTAs or poisoning so let's forget the poor snake and declare war on the mosquito! :-) And I haven't even mentioned smoking (18.1% of deaths) or drinking (3.5% of deaths) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_preventable_causes_of_death ...Actually, reading that, STDs kill more people than drugs...forget the war on drugs, let's have a war on sex! :-) Reading en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snakebite#Epidemiology there is no definite figure but they estimate 5.4m snake bites have occurred (I assume since they started counting) and it's resulted in 125,000 deaths...more than double that die every year from smoking related diseases, and the deaths I mention from snakebite are since records began! (And getting to constriction, as I've concentrated on snakebite) And that STUPID humane society being inhumane again! www.humanesociety.org/news/press_releases/2008/10/hsus_calls_for_stricter_snake_regulations_102408.html"At least 11 people have been killed by pet pythons in the United States since 1980, including men in Ohio and Indiana who were killed by their pet pythons in 2006."...11 since 1980...wow!...there's only been 30 million deaths by smoking, and you want to restrict the sale of animals that have killed less since 1980 than have died from smoking in the last SIX MINUTES (well, at my calculations, it's 2 deaths from smoking per minute in the US, 435,000 in 2001 and I am just using that figure multiplied)...talk about priorities :-) But I digress :-P
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Post by deguconvert on Jul 3, 2010 1:35:56 GMT
During the time I have been a member on this forum, I have read several posts by owners that have used parrot cages for their degus. They do make acceptable housing for degus, provided that you place as many horizontal surfaces in there as you can, as this is the space that is most needed for happy and healthy degus. You need to be aware of the spacing between the bars since degus can basically get through anywhere their heads will fit through. More than and inch between will be a wide open door to them.
Several of us on the forum have built wooden cages as a result of the infectious influence of another member NightwishRaven999. There is a thread on how to build a wooden cage on the cages and accessories board. I don't know what you can do or are allowed to afford, but have a look anyway. They are much easier to clean and keep the surrounding area much, MUCH cleaner as well.
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Post by samovilafox on Jul 3, 2010 1:50:24 GMT
Ah see now you're using actual facts and statistics, and there's no room for those in American Politics! ;D I still think some law makers saw Snakes on a Plane and thought it was a documentary... There was another article in today's paper on the subject and a local reptile shop owner was whining about how this will ruin his business. This guy is notorious in the local pet industry community for operating just within the lines of the law. (Giving alligators just enough room to move forward and backwards in a tank, having cages and tanks that are just clean enough to pass inspection, etc.) He even went to jail for a few days for refusing to chip his reptiles. So now I'm not sure how to feel. I've been checking out degu videos on you tube. Talkative little guys! It's also had me walk away with yet another question. Just how big are these guys?!? The degus I've seen here, (that were labeled as adults) were about one hand full. Maybe about the size of an apple. The ones on you tube look like they're the size of an adult chinchilla! Mind you the ones I've seen were owned by our more "interesting" degu owner who got them at Pet Land. (Our version of P&H perhaps.) And not to speak ill of competitors but frankly they lie. A lot. Any idea how old these guys are? www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMlsQUw41Aw&feature=relatedThat video reminded me so much of my little gerbil boys. I miss them... Thank you as always! Samovilafox (Sarah)
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Post by deguconvert on Jul 3, 2010 6:26:02 GMT
Well . . . it's difficult to say because there is nothing that can help to define their size, like someones adult hand reaching in. But looking at their eyes and body shape makes me think they are less than six months old. Degus become sexually mature at about the age of six months, but they are still growing to their full adult size, which they will not reach until about a year of age. Most adult degus will be about six inches from tip of nose to the base of the tail, and the tail (provided it has it's full length and hasn't lost any inches) is the same length as the body. Chins are at least twice this size. Occasionally there will be a degu that is longer and bigger, but those are the rare one here or there.
Degus are much more individual in character and temperament than a gerbil seems to be. They are smart and fast, they like to decide when and how they are coming to you, and they are much more vocal. Gerbils, which tend to be smarter than your average hamster, are still more accomodating and passive than a degu. Degus aren't vicious, and don't set out to bite any hand that comes near, but if they are greatly frightened or very annoyed, they will bite. With degus, it is a matter of earning and winning their trust . . . you build a relationship and communication with them that will, with time and a commitment to being with them, develop into a wonderful bond. Not every degu will make this bond with us, but when we see one that has, such as NightwishRaven999's Ginger, we are inspired even more to work for it with our own.
I never expected to enjoy or love our boys as I do, but I fell head over heels for them as I got to know them. THEY WON ME, truth be told. I bonded to them, lol! They are without a doubt more than a simple rodent. It is something that you alone can decide, but should you choose to become daily and well aquainted with degus, I truly believe you will love them. You may even wonder why you waited.
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Post by samovilafox on Jul 5, 2010 2:26:59 GMT
Ok I've come up with another question. (Surprise! ;D ) I just read the thread on herbs that degus can eat. Rose petals, marigold, hibiscus etc etc. I couldn't seem to find, or missed it, if these can be mixed into their dry food on a regular basis or if they should only be used as treats. We have a nice organic market near by and I like to mix my own tea blends so I already have a lot of that stuff at home. I also wondered if they can have a few more things that I didn't see on the list.
Catnip Damiana Lavender Juniper Lemon Verbena and maybe Cinnamon? (The sticks to chew)
I apologize if those are on there as fine or toxic and I just missed it...
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Post by smux on Jul 5, 2010 10:14:46 GMT
Catnip? One thing you don't want is a degu who smells of catnip, just in case some owners have cats :-)
As for the rest, I'm not sure but someone will know
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Post by samovilafox on Jul 5, 2010 19:41:45 GMT
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