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Post by teemu on Sept 30, 2022 19:05:44 GMT
It turns out that there might be something going on with Pipari. I'm not sure if it's serious or not, but it's certainly something. She'll need to see the vet in the near future.
I noticed today that there are strange masses in her groin/thigh region. Rather large, actually. Right at the base, where her thighs meet her body. Since she generally does not want to be held too often, it has taken me time to notice this. The other side feels like just totally soft and undifferentiated tissue, but the other side has a soft, largeish lump surrounded by softer tissue. It's not painful, and moving obviously does not hurt since she jumps, climbs and runs around all the time. So a tumor feels more likely...
I'm not sure how it is with degus, but in other similar small animals, the lowest mammary glands are quite near to the area (it's hard to say exactly what the area even is since the mass there is quite widely spread). Those are often the ones to develop tumors.
I'm wondering if this is the reason her gait is so waddly? We've thought that she's flat-footed like Pulla, but now that I'm aware of these masses, it seems more like they might actually be forcing her to move with her feet farther apart than normal, hence the flat-footed gait...
This is really unfortunate. Pipari has the worst luck, it seems. I also can't help but observe that she does feel really rotund in general, and her anatomy is less easy to feel when I hold her (compared to the others). Since I haven't had as many degus, and they're all on the small side, I'm really not sure if this is just her being stouter than most, her being actually plump, or her having more of this mass growth in her body.
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Post by moletteuk on Oct 1, 2022 9:43:29 GMT
Oh dear, that's a worry.
I've not come across a mammary tumour in a degu before on the forum, so I think it must be quite unusual. I would think a mass in that area could very well affect her gait.
Keep us updated.
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Post by teemu on Oct 1, 2022 11:18:00 GMT
Yes, I'm not totally sure what it is. I've inspected the area again, and they might be lower than a mammary gland tumor could be - and it doesn't seem likely especially when the animal is this young. But there's definitely something there. The softer tissue might actually just have been general tissue, since the first time I felt them I was holding her in a way that made her bunch up. But the lump is definitely there, even when I feel it out in a more natural way.
It's quite large. It's about the same size as a rather small grape (I can't find a good analogy for the size, it's smaller then what you usually think a grape would be, but larger than any of the usual smaller comparisons, right in the middle...) and pliable, but clearly one contained mass. It feels a lot like how abscesses feel in their earlier stages, but there's no pain, so that seems unlikely. A tumor or some sort of an enlarged gland are the only things that come to mind.
I'll be contacting the vet next week about it. I'm of course worried about this, but no use putting it off. They'll need to check what it is. Who knows, it might be something benign, in the end. I guess I can make use of the visit and ask her whether or not Pipari really does seem plump, since she has had a lot more experience with degus of various sizes.
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Post by moletteuk on Oct 1, 2022 16:45:05 GMT
Is it in the right area for something gynaecological? I wonder if degus could get ovarian cysts.
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Post by teemu on Oct 1, 2022 18:41:54 GMT
I'm not sure if it's the right area. I think the ovaries would be higher as well. But the weird thing is that now that I'm feeling out the other degus as well for comparison, some of them also have some amount of mass there. Pipari's lump is way bigger than what anyone else has, but I can feel something somewhat similar with at least a couple of others. Much smaller, so that you'd have to actually be looking for it to notice it, and less solid, but they're there. This is making me think that it might be some sort of a gland or maybe a lymph node that really swollen (can lymph nodes even swell like that?) or enlarged somehow. That's probably better than a tumor, at least...
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Post by teemu on Oct 2, 2022 0:17:17 GMT
This is really odd, but I can't find it tonight. I could find it just fine earlier today, and yesterday, but when I handled Pipari just now and checked up on the lump, it's gone. Really not sure what's going on with that, since it was quite noticeable earlier. Now I just soft tissue in the area, but no lump of any kind. It felt really distinct earlier, with clear dimensions and form.
I'll keep monitoring the situation, but I'm quite confused at the moment...
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Post by savvy on Oct 2, 2022 0:19:34 GMT
Could it have been poo?
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Post by deguconvert on Oct 2, 2022 6:33:01 GMT
Hmmm!! Well!! That is . . . both unnerving and WEIRD! I think the only thing you can do is keep an eye on it, checking her out as you have been, and report to your vet. Be very gentle with your palpitations . . . you wouldn't want to cause something to burst and end up with a terrible infection. I think your description of it as a grape has been thinking of very thin skinned things. I am sure you are more than gentle!! I hope this strangeness can be solved and that she will be well and strong!
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Post by teemu on Oct 2, 2022 10:30:45 GMT
I managed to find it again as I was going to bed, when I checked up on her for one last time. It felt a lot smaller then, and like it had shifted a bit. So no wonder I did not find it. But this morning, it was back to being big a gain. So it looks like it's changing size? I'm really confused as to what could cause something like that. I'm starting to wonder again if she isn't actually just overweight and what I'm feeling are fat deposits in her thighs. That would explain how it can feel very different depending on how she's held. She's certainly got more bulk than any other degu I have.
Savvy, I don't think it was poo. The mass did not feel like that. Though if it's a hernia or something, her intestines being more or less full would explain why it feels different depending on when I'm examining it.
Deguconvert, no worries with that. I'm always very mindful of the dangers and I don't apply any serious pressure or pull or twist anything. I learned that lesson early on, when I was still a kid and one of my pet rats developed an abscess in his cheek. I, being young and stupid, handled it way too roughly, and the whole thing burst while still inside him. Luckily, no serious damages from that, but it certainly was a scare.
Hopefully the vet will be able to settle the matter quickly. It'll be a bit awkward if the verdict is actually just that Pipari is chubby or something, but that'd still be a happy kind of a surprise. We'll see.
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Post by teemu on Oct 23, 2022 15:17:14 GMT
I have not been able to take her to vet yet. This month has been really unexpectedly tight, monetarily, and since I had to choose between feeding everyone, including the animals, and taking her to the vet, I had to postpone for now since this situation does not seem acute.
I have also been looking her over with my wife and I'm really starting to think that she might just be really, really plump in ways that none of my other degus are. She has a bit of a hump between the shoulders as well, and that really feels like fat. That in itself is worrying, since it's really, really weird that she is gaining weight like this. She eats like everyone else, she moves as much as everyone else, and I cannot really think that it's the fact that I give her two sunflower seeds in the evening.
I expect that the situation should be better in a week or so, and I will take her then. They'll need to check her, and do the diabetes test. It's either glandular or diabetes, is my wager. She really has no luck in life at all...
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Post by savvy on Oct 23, 2022 16:48:15 GMT
To the best of my knowledge, diabetes does not present with lumps. Ruby's first presented with cataracts, but she eats and drinks normally. She's always been a big eater and weighs in at over 300g.
Both Little Amber and Sphene have a hunchback which according to my vet may have been caused by perching on narrow poles etc when they were younger. As they are rescues, we'll never know how they spent the first 18th months of their life. But it doesn't bother them, or hamper their movements.
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Post by teemu on Oct 23, 2022 19:38:53 GMT
Yes. I'm hoping that the vet can be make some conclusions about it. She has worked with all kinds of degus, she once mentioned, both from some really obese and poorly kept ones to degus with anorexia or bad tooth issues that caused them to lose huge amounts of weight. And she has a great deal of knowledge of various illnesses. So she can probably establish what's going on, I am hopeful.
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Post by moletteuk on Oct 24, 2022 13:09:04 GMT
I hope the finances improve for you soon.
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Post by teemu on Nov 10, 2022 14:16:06 GMT
I'm just picking her up from the vet (along with Pulla, who got a teeth trim).
She's just fat. It's all just obesity. We will be restricting her food pellets to controlled amounts since it looks like she can't handle having them freely available.
Maybe it's her overall neurotic personality? She might be suffering from something like am eating disorder?
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Post by moletteuk on Nov 10, 2022 17:57:45 GMT
Oh, that's a surprise, but a good surprise! Excellent news. What weight is she and does she otherwise appear overweight? Since she can be a bit neurotic, I would tread very carefully regarding reducing pellets, especially if she shows any eating disorder type behaviour, you don't want to make that worse.
A couple of mine got overweight and I tried to put them on a diet and reduced their pellets and they just reduced their activity so that they maintained the weight, it seemed really deliberate.
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Post by savvy on Nov 10, 2022 18:11:50 GMT
Great news, but I'm not sure what you can do if she's neurotic.
Ruby the Foody didn't get her name by accident, she's a bit obsessive about food to say the least. I tried to get her to use the wheel more in order to get her weight down a bit and all she did was curl up on it and rock herself to sleep! And I have the video to prove it.
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Post by teemu on Nov 10, 2022 19:07:31 GMT
She's now at around 285-290 grams, depending on the day. I estimate that she's somewhat larger in skeletal structure than the others, but not as much as her current weight would indicate (everyone else is around 220-240, and is in good health. The vet said that Pulla has a very good weight, for example, and he's 245 grams right now). And she does appear plump. She has a notable hump and her front paws have a good bit of flab under them - and there's also the fact that she waddles a bit due to having fat deposits in her groin area.
The vet said that she's not dangerously overweight yet, and it's fine if her weight stays like this, but the aim is that she won't increase her weight any more than this. Since her weight has been steadily climbing all the time, we'll try to see if it can be limited a bit.
I'm hoping that the reduced pellets might make her eat more hay. She tends to neglect the hay in favor of the pellets. We'll see how it goes after the first couple of weeks.
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Post by teemu on Jan 19, 2023 18:08:24 GMT
Well, a couple of months down the line, and Pipari is down to 265 grams. She's looking a lot healthier at the moment. Certainly not thin yet, but I can't feel nearly as much fat deposit in her thighs area. I'll be increasing her pellets a bit and seeing what the limits are. I already got a bit more lenient when she got down to the 270 gram range, and that really seemed to calm her down. She was really frantic about food at one point, but she's learned now that the pellets come at the feeding times, and she's been eating more hay at other times.
Overall it seems like she's doing quite well, health-wise!
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Post by deguconvert on Jan 20, 2023 2:48:13 GMT
Teemu, what did you feed Pipari before cutting back on her food, and what are you feeding her now?
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Post by teemu on Jan 20, 2023 3:11:53 GMT
Her main feed that I have been controlling now is a mix of guinea pig and chinchilla pellets. She still gets the same pellets, but does not have free access any more. Other than that, she gets free access to hay, and receives a small amount of seeds in the evening. She also gets dried plant forage. The only thing that has really changed is that she only receives a controlled amount of pellets daily now, instead of me filling her bowl all the time. She gets around 10g each day, divided into two feedings, and I give her a few more (like four) pellets when I give her the seeds in the evening.
The pellets are the really boring Altromin stuff, the same everyone else gets.
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