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Post by yasmin on May 13, 2016 2:42:28 GMT
Roku is ill.
On Tuesday, I let him and Makoto have a meeting – first one in weeks – in a neutral area. That's when I noticed that Roku was making whimpering-like sounds. All of the time. Otherwise he seemed normal, though I had noticed that he hadn't been eating as much but he still was eating treats that I handed him – dandelion leaves, sunflower seeds, etc. – so I wasn't too worried. Still made the soonest appointment with the vet I could get – for next Monday.
But last night he seemed worse. He began hiding in his hut or under his wheel – all sort of puffed up. He still ate the treats I gave him so I left a little plate with sesame seeds and sunflower seeds and oats on it. Checked on him this morning – he hadn't eaten any of the treats on the plate. He still took the treats I offered by hand but I was now even more worried so I called the vet again and they, thank goodness, had a cancellation this morning.
So... the vet said that Roku's breathing is labored, from the lower chest area not the nose area. He took an x-ray using the wonderful "stretchy tube" method devised by his vet tech/assistant so Roku did not need any sedating. X-rays showed:
– a possible issue in his lungs (though his lungs sounded clear),
– arthritis beginning in his back,
– a bit of air in his stomach
but what is even more concerning is
– he has a lot of air in his cecum. (Have to check the spelling of that.)
I was advised to give him one drop of Ovol once an hour for six hours, and then three times a day for several days. As well, I am to give him Baytril twice a day.
Roku is now refusing to eat anything – won't even eat treats – but fortunately he will take water from a syringe so I am mixing the Ovol in with that. Haven't tried the Baytril yet.
So far, he is getting worse, not better. He is more puffy and not coming out of his hut at all.
Note (added May 16/16): The vet's first thought was that the whimpering sounds were due to a possible heart problem because the sounds were made on exhalation. That is why he suggested to do an x-ray to see if the heart looked enlarged. The x-ray did not reveal any enlargement.
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Post by uglibug on May 13, 2016 6:56:00 GMT
So sorry to hear this, you really are going through it atm aren't you.  Have you tried offering him a small piece of fruit? Maybe half a grape? Our lot go mad for anything sweet and it might encourage him to eat. Maybe baby food even. Something that needs no real effort to eat. |
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Post by bouncy on May 13, 2016 7:32:34 GMT
Keep fighting, Roku!
What a brilliant tech, to create a method of xraying without sedation. It might be he's objecting to taking drugs. I really do hope you start to see some improvements soon.
I was really worried about the arthritis in Scaredygoo's spine and hips, especially as the initial dosing of Metacam didn't seem to do anything. Now a local specialist has upped the dose (significantly!), he's much better. He still has weakness in his hind quarters and a "bah humbug" look on his face, and spends loads of time outside and being mischievous.
Keeping everything crossed for you x
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Post by moletteuk on May 13, 2016 11:56:35 GMT
This sounds a little bit like Molly, random unconnected things leaving you no idea what the root cause is. Our vet conjectured that spinal pain could cause heavy breathing. It sounds like the digestion is the most urgent thing, do you have any Critical Care, I would syringe feed a little bit of that if you are syringing water anyway, just so his digestion doesn't stop completely. Molly was also given metaclopramide to try to get her digestion going again at the point where she was in crisis (partly from the antibiotics).
Can you see him mouth breathing? Is his poo OK, not smelly?
I want to say be careful with the antibiotics but that's not really going to help you if the vet said to give them, I'm just a bit concerned that if there isn't any infection it's going to make his digestion worse, so you could watch for that anyway, keep an eye on his poos if you can see any.
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Post by deguconvert on May 13, 2016 15:03:51 GMT
I am so sorry, Yasmin!! I don't know how you keep going. So much relentless illness! I hope Roku will take a turn toward great improvement, and soon!
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Post by yasmin on May 14, 2016 2:35:28 GMT
This sounds a little bit like Molly, random unconnected things leaving you no idea what the root cause is. Our vet conjectured that spinal pain could cause heavy breathing. It sounds like the digestion is the most urgent thing, do you have any Critical Care, I would syringe feed a little bit of that if you are syringing water anyway, just so his digestion doesn't stop completely. Molly was also given metaclopramide to try to get her digestion going again at the point where she was in crisis (partly from the antibiotics). Can you see him mouth breathing? Is his poo OK, not smelly? I want to say be careful with the antibiotics but that's not really going to help you if the vet said to give them, I'm just a bit concerned that if there isn't any infection it's going to make his digestion worse, so you could watch for that anyway, keep an eye on his poos if you can see any. Maybe I should give him some Metacam considering the arthritis in his spine. I will try that. I agree re: the antibiotics. I have not yet started giving him it yet; was waiting for him to start eating again. He got his six doses of Ovol yesterday. Then the one this morning. The afternoon dose was less successful. He was showing an interest in food —not really eating but grabbing it from me and giving it a nibble before dropping it. He has nibbled at a bit of seed tree, and a Crock Nature Herb treat, but the most I have gotten in him so far is two de-shellled sunflower seeds a few hours ago. He will not try baby food, grabbed a green pea but did not eat it, grabbed a bit of dandelion leaf but did not eat it either. Right now, he is hiding and won't even take water. He is not mouth breathing as far as I can tell. Don't see any new poo – will check again. Your experience with Molly and bouncy's experience with Scaredygoo seems relevant in this case so I will try the Metacam. I think that is my only hope right now. I feel very discouraged because whenever I have had a degu not eat on his own when it was not a teeth issue, they have not recovered no matter how hard I tried. I will continue trying until Sunday evening. At least, he did eat something today – need to focus on that. |
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Post by yasmin on May 14, 2016 2:47:30 GMT
Hallelujah, there is a wee bit of soft, greyish/greenish stinky poo!
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Post by moletteuk on May 14, 2016 17:12:59 GMT
I feel very discouraged because whenever I have had a degu not eat on his own when it was not a teeth issue, they have not recovered no matter how hard I tried. It seems like a design flaw to me that the hind gut fermenters like rabbits and degus stop eating so quickly when they feel unwell and then get into gut stasis and it is this that is then so deadly for them (when the original thing possibly isn't life threatening). The only thing you can do is force feed them via syringe. It's horrible but if I can do it then you can too. I was so nervous of doing it but it came to the point of trying it or she would die anyway so I went for it. It wasn't as bad as I thought, she figured out I was trying to help her and even though she didn't like to be caught and held, she tolerated it and co-operated quite a lot in the end so I didn't have to restrain her too tightly. The other good thing is that the recovery foods have probiotics in them which help the gut get moving again. Obviously it's up to you to decide when you have reached the point when you have to do it. I don't suppose the vet gave you any guidance on this? I wonder if the air in his digestive system is air he has breathed in or could be gas from a digestive infection? (when Molly started mouth breathing at the end it was really obvious). |
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Post by goolover on May 14, 2016 18:58:15 GMT
Hi Yasmin,
Sorry to hear about your boy. I think that it is instinct that they will take a treat but they wont necessarily be eating it, fooling us into thinking they are ok. They just move treats and bury them elsewhere. I read somewhere that small animals are good at hiding sickness (something about not showing weakness in the wild) so the time we notice their symptoms, they have had it for awhile and are starting to struggle with it. Anyway, I order 'Supreme Science Recovery Plus' online incase of emergencies and this can be a life saver for goo's that aren't eating. Says its for rabbits, small herbivores and from experience its good for Degu's. We have 9 goo's, 2 boys and 7 girls. We add hot water to the powder (add baytril or whatever medication your goo is prescribed if needed), put it into a syringe and let it cool. Don't worry about measurements just create a small amount of runny paste. You wont have to pick Roku up, just put him on floor and show him the syringe and he will hopefully pay some interest. We imagine it tastes like warm porridge to some goo's as they literally grab the syringe like a babies bottle, close their eyes and let you feed them. It keeps the weight on and gets them through the worst until they start to eat again. One of my girls had pneumonia when she was around 2 yrs and she was so poorly she looked all puffed up like a little duckling. I filled a hot water bottle (not to hot) and wrapped a tea towel around it so she could lie on it and it kept her warm. Unfortunately, she wouldn't take baytril orally and she is the only one who doesn't like the recovery feed so we got her injected at the vet. This is always an option. Just tell your vet you want whatever drug injected into him. I think its important that any needed medicine gets into their body and can set to work increasing chances of recovery. My oldest goo Lula has just developed breathing difficulties Friday night ( hence why I am on here looking at posts) so she will be off to the vets Monday morning for baytril injection. She has had baytril added to recovery feed today ( always keep a supply handy from the vets) and I will repeat tomorrow, but to me, the injection works faster. Let us know how he does x |
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Post by yasmin on May 15, 2016 15:17:15 GMT
Thanks for your replies. Roku started eating a bit yesterday morning and afternoon – he would only take a bit of dandelion leaf or sweet pototo, and he moved around the cage a bit. One of his eyes was gummed up so I planned to start the Baytril. However, last night he took a turn for the worse and refused everything. We force-fed him the Baytril and some Metacam and water and a very wee bit of Critical Care, but I doubt he swallowed much. Again, this morning we force-fed the Baytril and very liquified Critical with a drop of Ovol in it but he doesn't seem to be swallowing at all. He is extremely weak – I doubt he will last the day.  My vet has never offered to give Baytril by injection – will discuss this with him next time I see him. I will do my best to muster up the courage to continue force-feeding the Critical Care. How do you administer it? When I mix it up, I have to add a lot of water to it just to get it runny enough to go into and then out of the syringe. Perhaps the Supreme Science Recovery Plus is a better recovery food for degus – I will see if I can order through Amazon from the UK. Supreme Science no longer distributes in Canada – I am now having to order my degus' main pelleted food – Supreme Science Selective – from the UK. |
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Post by bouncy on May 15, 2016 15:32:53 GMT
Stay strong Yasmin - your love for little Roku will carry you through, and we're always here for support x
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Post by yasmin on May 15, 2016 15:53:10 GMT
He just drank some Critical Care from the syringe.  I will spend the rest of the day trying to feed him. Thank you all for your encouragement. Your support is invaluable.xo (And I've ordered the Supreme Science Recovery Plus from a supplier in the UK via eBay for future use.) |
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Post by goolover on May 15, 2016 16:12:05 GMT
Cut the end off the syringe so the opening is bigger and you can get the feed slightly thicker. For it to go through the syringe without the end off it has to be like water and you want a runny porridge consistency. If you have a small glass bottle, fill it with hot water and wrap a couple of socks around it and put it in his cage to keep him warm. Yes the feed I mention is from Amazon. Its hard but if you can get a small amount into him, it will keep him going. Make sure you squirt the medicine and feed into his cheeks as they can choke if squirted into back of mouth. When you go to vet also ask for a vitamin injection aswell as the baytril and this will give him some energy. The goo we have who had pneumonia was as bad as you describe Roku. The vet said to put her down but I said No, give her baytril and vitamin injection and I will take her home. We watched over her all night and were waiting for her to stop breathing. The next morning she started to move around and I took her to the vet again for more injections. Think we walked around with her in our dressing gowns all day and I slept on sofa at night with her lying on my stomach so it can take alot of commitment but she started to eat and eventually made a full recovery. Good luck hun x
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Post by moletteuk on May 15, 2016 19:24:14 GMT
Sometimes it is practical and helpful to get an initial shot of antibiotic via injection while you are at the vet, generally it buys you a little time to figure out how to get it into the degu orally. If you go the injection route then they need the injection every 24hrs so this usually isn't practical, although I guess in some cases it could be life saver (we did consider it when we were struggling to get the ABs into Molly).
It helps if you get the consistency of Critical Care just right, too runny and it splooges everywhere and too thick and it won't come out of the syringe, also in the first 5 to 10 mins after mixing it thickens a bit, so I was tending to mix it a bit runny and then let it sit for a few minutes. I went into the back room with the vet nurse to examine all the syringes and discovered that the 2.5ml ones had a very slightly bigger opening, although they should all be the same to take the same needles ??). You can cut the end off but this makes it more difficult to direct into the mouth. There was a Supreme Recovery branded syringe specifically for feeding recovery food with a bigger opening, but I found this a bit unwieldy and kept going back to the smaller syringes. I haven't tried the Supreme food so I don't know how different it is. Have a practice with different consistencies. If it jams fire it into a container to free it off so it doesn't come out with force into the goo mouth. It's fine to have it quite liquid, I certainly had it more liquid than the packet said.
You are supposed to put the syringe just behind the incisors and fire it sideways so they can't bite the syringe and it also doesn't go down the airway. I struggled to make this work as Molly was so intent on retaining some control and wanted to bite the syringe, so I ended up letting her and just fired the syringe as sideways as I could. The mouth is pretty long so there is some safety margin from it going down the airway. Allowing her to reach and bite at the syringe allowed her to tell me when she was ready for the next mouthful so gave her an element of control.
In terms of catching and holding Molly, we ended up grabbing at her as best we could with a towel sized piece of fleece blanket. Then we would sit down and adjust the grip so her face was exposed but the rest of her was wrapped up and restrained. Basically I would let her loose in the middle of the cloth and try to bundle her up and then make a small circle with my hand in the direction she was heading (with my hand how I wanted it), so her head would poke through but no further, then do a further wrap around her of the cloth if necessary/ possible.
In the beginning we were using a tube to get her. Then we would arrange the cloth in a plastic tub so the cloth went up the sides of the tub, then plop her from the tube into the tub. Then quickly lift the skirt of the cloth up all around her, so she was effectively bundled loose in the bottom of a small sack. Then lift this onto your knee and as she runs within the sack make a constriction ahead of her to catch her head first.
We started off with Ian holding Molly and me working the syringe. Once I got the hang of it, and got better at working the syringe with one hand, it was probably a bit easier or more comfortable anyway to do it myself, with Molly in my left hand high up on my chest under my chin almost. Oh, and we used gloves after we both got bitten quite badly, she was just biting out a bit wildly, rather than trying to hurt us.
If you think he is beyond help then don't feel pressure from me at least to chase him to feed him if you think it is just stressing him out and not helping, or if he won't/ can't swallow.
Good luck.
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Post by deguconvert on May 15, 2016 19:42:36 GMT
Thinking of you and Roku! How is he doing this far into the day?
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Post by yasmin on May 16, 2016 1:47:42 GMT
He is extremely weak. I don't think he will make it to tomorrow.
He has a heated lizard rock to warm him. I have been trying to feed him every hour but he only drinks from the syringe once in a while. (And only by biting the syringe.) Will try the tips re: cutting the syringe and preparation of Critical Care so as to give him more of the actual food.
Have avoided holding him because he is so weak and uses all his energy to drag himself away. However, we will hold him to give him his antibiotic tonight, maybe some Metacam as well to give him some comfort (or should I not give that Metacam?)
I will need to talk to the vet about injectable AB – I would have no problem taking him in every day if that was what is needed. Also, will ask about injectable vitamins.
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Post by moletteuk on May 16, 2016 16:29:09 GMT
I don't see why you shouldn't give him a drop of metacam.
Sending best wishes.
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Post by yasmin on May 16, 2016 18:06:46 GMT
Roku's body was cool this morning and he was suffering. Went to the vet – he examined him. No more bloating but his heart was beating very slowly and not steadily. Not pneumonia, not an URI, most likely a heart issue that caused the whimpering sounds and the rest of his body to shut down. RIP dear Roku. I so hope you are now back in the company of your cagemates, dear father Sean and half-brother Yuu. Will miss you, my dear boy. I know that Makoto will miss you too. |
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Post by moletteuk on May 16, 2016 19:29:29 GMT
You did absolutely everything you could for him, I'm so sorry, Yasmin.
Rest well Roku xx
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Post by bouncy on May 16, 2016 23:06:53 GMT
Oh Yasmin, you are such a loving goo mummy, and I know Roku appreciates everything you've done for him x
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Have you tried offering him a small piece of fruit? Maybe half a grape? Our lot go mad for anything sweet and it might encourage him to eat. Maybe baby food even. Something that needs no real effort to eat.
I will spend the rest of the day trying to feed him.