Degu very ill. :( End of life, it seems.

[rhoma]

So some of you may know that I had a degu with a supposed RI. We went to the vets, got given seven days of antibiotics. He got a bit better, but then got worse again. We then got ten days of antibiotics, but this time they made very little difference and after three days he was worse again. We finished the course and now he's very bad.

He is mouth breathing, slightly swollen stomach and walking very low and hunched over. He is not active, although he has spurts of activity. Last night he looked very bad, swollen stomach and I thought the little guy was going to pass in his sleep. He seemed perkier this morning, but the last few hours have been bad and he is looking very swollen and as bad as last night.

The vet said over the phone that they could do a tooth check if we brought him in, but they'd have to semi anaesthetise him and they don't think he'll cope with that. Also it would have to be an emergency appointment and would be very expensive. We just ran out of Metacam, sadly, so we have none left. 

Is there anything else I can do? I've been giving him basil leafs and crushed up degu food with rolled oats and water, as it's all he will eat. He has eaten and drunk recently and is currently in bed. 

Im assuming that if he does have teeth problems they must be very bad to be effecting his breathing so much. Either that or it's a strong RI thats gotten the better of him. Either way, the fact his stomach has swollen due to the mouth breathing means he is in a very bad way.  

I am going to consider the option of having him out to sleep tomorrow if there is no improvement as I don't want him to suffer.

[moletteuk]

I'm sorry for your situation, I'm afraid I don't have any amazing suggestions for you, I wish I did.

Perhaps if he has lost some strength and vigour it would be possible to check his teeth or get an xray without anaesthetic. It might be worth asking anyway. There is a medication that can help him burp up the gas, I thinks it's a human one called simethicone, but it's of little use if you can't find the cause of the blocked nose. I guess you could try a steam inhilation, that might clear his nose just enough to buy you a little time. It's quite difficult to organise a source of steam and keep the degu safe from the hot water and steam, but could be worth a try.

Let us know.

[rhoma]

Jun 30, 2015 19:49:58 GMT moletteuk said:

I'm sorry for your situation, I'm afraid I don't have any amazing suggestions for you, I wish I did.

Perhaps if he has lost some strength and vigour it would be possible to check his teeth or get an xray without anaesthetic. It might be worth asking anyway. There is a medication that can help him burp up the gas, I thinks it's a human one called simethicone, but it's of little use if you can't find the cause of the blocked nose. I guess you could try a steam inhilation, that might clear his nose just enough to buy you a little time. It's quite difficult to organise a source of steam and keep the degu safe from the hot water and steam, but could be worth a try.

Let us know.

Thankyou. 

I was also hoping that, I'm going to ring up the vets tomorrow and get a second opinion. 

It's his upper chest- the vet could hear a raffle there two weeks ago, so I guess it's spread. 

What's your opinion on a steamy bathroom? I can't do that now as it'll wake my baby brother up, but tomorrow I could that.

I've put vapour drops on my curtain, so they can't get near him physically, maybe they'll help.

[deguconvert]

Things sound bad indeed, and I am so sorry that he is doing so poorly, honey. I fear it will be very difficult to quickly resolve his condition, but I hope he is not beyond hope.

[rhoma]

Jul 1, 2015 6:02:23 GMT deguconvert said:

Things sound bad indeed, and I am so sorry that he is doing so poorly, honey. I fear it will be very difficult to quickly resolve his condition, but I hope he is not beyond hope.

Thank you, that is what I also think. I'm just hoping he is not in any pain. He fluctuates very quickly- one moment I think he's going to pass in his sleep at night, then just a few hours later he's running around and looking much perkier. It's moments like that prevent me from putting him to sleep whilst he still has his spirit.

I'm going to try and get some more Metacam, for pain relief purposes.

[moletteuk]

Let us know how you get on today, more metacam is a good idea, again it buys you time, have a chat with the vet, be upfront with them if cost is a factor, see if they are willing to try the mouth exam/ xray without anaesthetic.

A steamy bathroom is a great idea, it depends on the size of the bathroom, I imagine inside a shower cubicle might provide more steam especially with the shower running hot.

[rhoma]

I'll try the bathroom.

He seems more energetic today, has even gone on his wheel, although at a half walk/half run.

He won't eat though... He's tried to eat a raisin but it all fell out his mouth. I'm thinking either he can't swallow it due to the fact he is mouth breathing or teeth problems?

I opened up his mouth (he's tame, if I stroke his jaw he doesn't seem to mind- as long as I stroke him!) and his front teeth are not aligned. One is chipped, but they're not overgrown and we've never had teeth problems before. He ate a tiny bit of cookie (you can tell things are getting bad when we willingly give our diabetes prove pets sugar filled human foods) but is burying and storing everything else. He has NEVER done this before except for the past few weeks.

He has however chewed his wooden bed and my phone charger. (Turned off.)

So yeah the little guys still alive and seems stronger, but I can feel his collar bones. Anyone ever had an old hamster? He feels like that, and he's always been fat. He weighed 270g a few weeks ago at the vets, before his breathing got very bad. He must now be about 200g, but my kitchen scaled are not accurate so I can't tell very well. So he had weight to lose, but only 20/40g, maybe 50g at a push. 70g is bad.

[moletteuk]

I don't think you mentioned the weight loss before, and when you say he chewed his wooden bed, is this unusual for him? Both of these suggest teeth issues, especially along with the sinus problem and refusing food. With those extra bits of information I would be very surprised if it isn't his teeth causing all the issues.

I would go ahead with the full teeth exam ASAP, even if he needs the anaesthetic. They might be able to trim his teeth and fix him up for a while. Unfortunately, there is a possibility he has overgrown roots which are untreatable, this would be diagnosed via xray. You can sometimes get an indication of overgrown roots by feeling for bumps along the lower jaw line and by pressing on his nose between the eye area to see if it seems painful to him.

[rhoma]

He has bumps on his lower jaw, where I presume his roots would be at the back of his mouth. I thought it was his jaw bones, but feeling again now he's lost more weight there is definitely two bumps. I couldn't feel them before properly but I can now.

I do think it's roots. His tongue is not pinned down, I do not think, as he's licked some peanut butter happily and his tongue came right out his mouth as normal. With the bumps I can now feel, and his breathing issues (which surely would not be caused by anything other than roots when looking at teeth problems) I am betting on it being roots. I mean, I can feel them pretty clearly.

Am discussing the issue with my parents, however they're reluctant to pay money for X Rays and a dental examination as they don't think he'll survive. I am financially reliable on them, so really is their decision.

I guess I'm waying up the pros and cons.

pros:
- my degu survives possibly a while longer
- I get more time with him
- it could just be a simple tooth problem

Cons:
- might not work
- breathing is bad and not ideal to be anaesthetised
- his roots would be untreatable

And, if he did have roots, it is likely he would be put to sleep anyway as although I could give him Metecam, he cannot eat, and I wouldn't keep him alive on pain relief, not being able to breathe or eat properly. This would be cruel in my opinion, as I don't think he would have much quality of life.

So do you think, if I can feel these bumps, which feel like two pins sticking down, he has roots? His mouth also looks inflamed.

Thankyou again for your help. I am sorry if this posts comes across as negative, I'm just pretty sure my parents think I'm grasping at straws when I suggest expensive treatment that might result in no cure. :/

[Bexi87]

Have you been able to speak to a vet? It may be worth getting their opinion on treatments and outcomes to help you and your parents to make a decision?

[moletteuk]

Speak to the vet. Ask whether they felt the bumps, ask whether they applied pressure down his nose to check for sinus pain. Ask how much the exam/xray would cost. Ask the vet what they recommend. If your parents are reluctant, do it yourself, it costs nothing to speak to the vet on the phone and most are happy to do it.

Every degu deserves a diagnosis, even if it only helps you to decide to have him put to sleep to end his suffering. I think it's worth another appointment to at least have the vet feel the bumps and maybe have the vet try to get the scope in his mouth.

[rhoma]

I made a vets appointment for Monday, my only hope is he makes it until then as he hasn't had a drink at all today. I tried to syringe feed him water but he refused it and none of it went in, even when I held him. I don't think he can drink very well, as his mouth is so swollen and his breathing so bad. I've given him a water dish to see if this is any easier, along with his water bottle.

Parents agreed to the vets appointment, however in their minds I think they're expecting to have him put to sleep. I couldn't get an appointment for today, and tomorrow they're closed, so Monday afternoon is the next available slot.

I've spent half of today mixing up different foods that are very mushy to try and get him to eat with no avail, although he's had some basil leaves.

The vet has never mentioned teeth problems, it's always been me that has bought the subject up, but I'm hoping that tomorrow they'll have some understanding. They are a good vets, but do not see many small animals, however they are the only vets near to me, so fingers crossed they'll have some suggestions.

[deguconvert]

Oh honey! I hope the best possible outcome for you and for your degu!! It must be agony for you, as it is agony just reading about his difficulties and suffering.