Degu opens jaw wide after eating hard food - teeth issues?

[yasmin]

Aug 12, 2015 9:30:54 GMT moletteuk said:

Aug 11, 2015 20:20:47 GMT yasmin said:

It was the locked-jaw thing that prompted me to take both Meiyo and Jin to the vet in the first place.

Yeah, I just wondered if it had been going on much longer before the thread? I was just wondering between long term genetic jaw abnormality gradually deteriorating, or something being a trigger to make it worse, probably doesn't really help.

Seems a bit odd Meiyo could eat oats out of a bowl but not individually hand fed, I wonder if it makes a difference what angle her head is at?

All I can take from this is what I am dealing with now – there was an abnormality initially and all the vet could do at the time was deal with any spurs in hopes that it was the spurs that were causing the behaviour. If damage resulted, well we couldn't have left that spur either so ....

It was odd that she could eat oats out of the bowl. She can't do that today. She was in a bad way last night again. All I could get her to eat were thawed out peas. Everything else she would try but if she could get it in her mouth, it fell out all wet with saliva. This morning I found her trying to chew on a piece of Carefresh. I tried to feed her and she did eat one of the V-L Complete Crock herb morsels and a bit of a green bean. It seems that if the food is too thin, her mouth can't grab a hold of it. If it is too hard, it makes her jaw lock. I will try as many foods as I can and keep note of it on this thread.

So far, she seems to be able to eat: thawed green peas (I open the skin a bit to make it easier for her), Versele-Laga Complete Crock Herb morsels, and a bit of a very thin green bean (I cut the ends so as to make it easier for her to eat).

[moletteuk]

Oh dear, it sounds hard to watch How is she in herself?

Have you had any thoughts about trying to massage her jaw like the vet mentioned? I honestly would have no clue how you might do that, what might help without causing her more discomfort. Is she tame enough to let you get hands on?

Have you tried any mashed food yet? You could potentially get better nutrition into her this way if she shows any interest.

[yasmin]

She turns her nose up at hard food when I wet it.
I think she is in okay spirits – she sits with her mom and sister, uses the wheel, etc.

She doesn't like being held but is tame enough to tolerate it. She is one of the few of my degus who will climb all over you if she can – no fear of us at all. I haven't tried massaging yet – too afraid I might make things worse.

This morning she did eat a few puffed rice bits and nibbled on some of her hard food so I am hopeful that this bout of TMJD will end soon.

[moletteuk]

Good to hear she is doing a little better, I hope that has continued.

When I mentioned mashed food, I meant a home made, do you have a blender? You could grind up seeds and nuts to a paste and mix them into some sort of vegetable mash or oatmeal, maybe with a little moistened nuggets and even some Critical Care or recovery food mixed in, you might need to experiment to find a mix she likes.

[deguconvert]

I feel for you, Yasmin. You and Meiyo both. I can't imagine the agony of watching her struggle so. I can imagine her pain. I hope and pray she continues to improve, and that you have massive success in your efforts to find and make foods she will thrive on.

[aurora]

Oh goodness me. I have no advice but can only echo the posts above and wish you the best of luck with her.

[yasmin]

Aug 16, 2015 12:09:58 GMT moletteuk said:

Good to hear she is doing a little better, I hope that has continued.

When I mentioned mashed food, I meant a home made, do you have a blender? You could grind up seeds and nuts to a paste and mix them into some sort of vegetable mash or oatmeal, maybe with a little moistened nuggets and even some Critical Care or recovery food mixed in, you might need to experiment to find a mix she likes.

That's brilliant – will give it a try.  Will also see if Lilac might like it.

For the past two days, she is nibbling on some hard food. She had one bad episode where she suddenly had a spasm (that I saw) and all the bits of food fell out, but I think she is swallowing a good portion of it. She has more moments of looking and behaving like the others where I can't tell her from her sister Jin.

I think it might be a deteriorating condition though because her sister Jin is having more and more bouts of jaw adjusting. Sigh. It's a daily trial.

[moletteuk]

It must be confusing when they look just the same, is it worth doing the food colouring on the ear?

The mashed food could be great for Lilac, it's probably a case of finding something that will stick it together that they also like. If you could find a basic mash they like it would become easier to mix in different healthy things. Let us know how you get on. I fed two dwarf hamsters with teeth problems this way for over a year, but their tastes were probably easier to cater to than degus.

[yasmin]

I am working on the mashed food thing. When Meiyo's jaw gets stuck, it is stuck partly open. She can't open her mouth wide enough to eat pellets or get her tongue out to lap food up, but her mouth is not closed enough to hold onto a flat piece of dried pea or oat. She can however eat the Herb Crock Complete treat (when cracked in half), thawed out peas, and puffed rice.

So I put a few peanuts, some oats, and a few pellets and ground this up with my mortar and pestle. I mixed in a bit of water and then formed pellets the size of puffed rice because both Lilac and Meiyo will eat puffed rice. I let them dry a bit and then tried to feed them to the two girls. Lilac loved it but Meiyo sniffed it and wouldn't go near it.

I then changed the composition – just one food pellet, more peanuts, more oats and rice krisps. Ground them up and mixed in some water. Again, Lilac loves it and I got Meiyo to eat two of them. She wouldn't eat anymore though. However, this is very hopeful. I can see adding some VIt. C, Vit. D, Critical Care etc. – I will continue to work on this.

[deguconvert]

Definitely sounds promising! Well done!

[moletteuk]

Sounds good so far

Try some nuts other than peanuts if you have some. If Lilac hasn't been eating much regular food for a while, then a multivitamin might be appropriate.

[yasmin]

Each piece of the Versele-Laga Herb Crock Complete is stated to contain 10.000 IU/kg of Vit. A, 3.000 IU/kg Vit D3, 110 mg/kg Vit. E, and 1.250 mg/kg Vit. C. Lilac and Meiyo get 1 per day each (up to 2 per day if Meiyo is not eating much).

Any thoughts on this? Is this adequate or should I be adding more Vit. C and D?

Also, I am not familiar with multivitamins for degus? Where can I get this? Are products made for hamsters/chinchillas that I see in the pet stores appropriate for degus?

[moletteuk]

I've looked at the figures for the Crocks and they seem to be quite heavily fortified, so you probably don't need a multivitamin. If they eat 3 or 4g of Crock, they are getting a similar dose of vitamins to 10g of an average degu food.

[yasmin]

Thanks, moletteuk. That is reassuring – both Meiyo and Lilac love these.

I will continue experimenting with preparing mixed mashed&slightly-hardened food for the two of them. Just need to find a formulation that Meiyo likes. (Bought some ground raw blanched almonds and some slivered ones as well as canned adzuki beans – assume these will be slightly soft making it easier for Meiyo to eat. All of its organic.)

[animalmadchloe]

My boys are showing signs of dental issues again opening mouths wide during and after eating pawing at the mouth and eating slowly, there both well over due but it's never a nice trip. Hope your troop are doing better x

[yasmin]

Thanks animalmadchloe. Sorry to hear that your boys will need dental work again. Hope that there are just spurs to be removed and all will be well with them after.

[animalmadchloe]

Sept 7, 2015 21:32:56 GMT yasmin said:

Thanks animalmadchloe. Sorry to hear that your boys will need dental work again. Hope that there are just spurs to be removed and all will be well with them after.

I think it is spurs as they r over due! They have both had bumps appear on the lower jaw too not massive but you can feel something I'm not sure if it's always been there or its appeared recently they dont mind me feeling the area though

[yasmin]

Poor babies. The bumps you are feeling are probably molar roots in the lower jaw growing downward. (An X-ray can confirm this.) Lilac – my 7.5 year old – has been living with these for at least a year and a half. They become a problem if they start to get infected. She gets Baytril when needed to deal with that.

My vet explained that the best thing is to deal with the spurs as soon as you notice them causing an issue. That way, the degus keep chewing on stuff and that keeps the teeth and molars in check, slowing down the process.

[animalmadchloe]

Sept 8, 2015 21:53:50 GMT yasmin said:

Poor babies. The bumps you are feeling are probably molar roots in the lower jaw growing downward. (An X-ray can confirm this.) Lilac – my 7.5 year old – has been living with these for at least a year and a half. They become a problem if they start to get infected. She gets Baytril when needed to deal with that.

My vet explained that the best thing is to deal with the spurs as soon as you notice them causing an issue. That way, the degus keep chewing on stuff and that keeps the teeth and molars in check, slowing down the process.

My babies are only about 3-3.5 years old it saddens me that their roots are over growing already, there booked in next week with Dean for trimming and he's confirmed before by feeling the jaw that he suspects it's the roots over growing but have t said an x ray is needed at present their still so young and they have a balanced diet

[yasmin]

[/quote]My babies are only about 3-3.5 years old it saddens me that their roots are over growing already
[/quote]

That's how old my degu Chuugi was when his roots began to seriously overgrow. Since he was born he has received as balanced a diet as I could give him – the same as his other 6 siblings, 5 cousins, father and mother, and 2 aunties.

My vet has told me that the issue is likely a genetic one – that a balanced diet helps to slow down the process but won't prevent it completely. Chuugi's father Sean (now 5.5 years old) has had spur trims several times, but his mother Peridot (also age 5.5 years) has had NO issues at all so far. His sisters Meiyo and Jin have a jaw-locking issue and have had small spurs removed, but his other two brothers (Yuu, Makoto) and other two sisters (Rei and Gi) have so far had NO teeth issues.