|
Post by popcorn on May 8, 2015 21:38:52 GMT
Simply put, Our Degus have started fighting. It might help to know the short history. We got them as a pair of females that were brought up together and they were sourced from a reputable dealer. We got them from Maxi Zoo and we understood what we were buying before we bought them. Their cage is very large / two tiered, fully equipped with antialergic material, they have a good sized house, ceramic feeding bowl, occasional chinchilla sand bath, running wheel etc. you get the picture.
The only thing that was different in this process was when we were getting them dusty happened to shed her tail during accidental handling at the maxi zoo. They were very apologetic about this and kept her and popcorn for a week as they took her to the vets and applied painkillers and care for the interim until the tail was fully healed and amputated. This essentially meant that we had two cool degus, one with an amputated (healed) tail 'Dusty' and one with an intact tail 'Popcorn'.
They got on fine for the three months that we had them and they were great. We followed all the guidebooks and instructions and fed them by hand put a piece of cloth in their cage with our smell etc. They became very comfortable with us and we were able to handle them easily within a short time. All was going well.
One day when everyone was out of the house 'Popcorn' chewed a hole in the cage and escaped. She was out for the whole day approx 9hrs. When we got back home we had to recapture her and reintroduce her back into the cage. both degus started sniffing each other and seemed fine for awhile but then they started to attack each other. I knew that they had to sort out some dominance issues so stayed and watched for awhile. The became so vicious to the point I had to separate them as Dusty did injury to Popcorn and Popcorn ended up limping on three paws.
I put them upstairs / downstairs in the two tiered cage with a wired separation between so they could still see, smell each other. after awhile I reintroduced them again. They still fought for awhile but seemed to settle down. But now and since the escape they are now occasionally intermittently fighting and popcorn the one with the long tail seems to be occasionally almost bullied by dusty. It has gotten to the point now where I have had to separate them again. I get the feeling that since the escape that dusty has learned to be more dominant and popcorn can't get used to it after being the dominant one for so long.
Dusty has ripped Popcorns tail at the base as well and she has bled a lot as well. At the moment they are seperated and my instinct is that they won't be the same again and will have to live in seperate tiers of the cage. Degus seem to be complicated little devils to keep! I can see why they were popular as pets for a time and are not som much so now! Any opinions and advice appreciated in all this:)
|
|
|
Post by ntg on May 9, 2015 7:55:40 GMT
Sorry to hear about your troubles, I'm afraid I have no personal experience of fighting but I just want to get a bit more information that may help us to deduce what may be going on!
How old are dusty and popcorn? Are they definitely female (I think you said they were female) as they can easily be mis-sexed?
What size cage are they in (dimensions, number of full levels and any partial ones)? Do they get any free range time?
Does the seem to be in triggers for the fighting such as food, dust baths?
|
|
|
Post by uglibug on May 9, 2015 9:05:23 GMT
It could be a dominance issue. The dynamics of our older boys changed last year (we still have no idea why!) and they were separate for 3 - 4 weeks due to the fighting. We found the longer we left them alone the more inclined they would be to be friendly. We went for total isolation from each other, they couldn't see, smell or talk to each other, and after a while the loneliness kicked in and they wanted their friend back, ergo less serious fights.
|
|
|
Post by klbishop on May 9, 2015 10:00:06 GMT
agreed the psychology of degus is a minefield. have you had them both checked over me a vet, they will mask injuries very well.
could be so many different things, a new smell or just - hey you had a fun day out and i didnt grrr. have a look at the reintroduction thread to reintroduce as safely as possible. and always follow your gut instinct if you think they are escalating and likely to injure each other.
|
|
|
Post by deguconvert on May 11, 2015 14:01:10 GMT
Hello Popcorn! Welcome to the forum! I am sorry for the difficulties you are currently facing, and also sorry that I have not seen your thread until now. It is not a "new to us" situation that you find yourself in, and I can tell you that in nearly all of the other cases, when a degu extricated itself out of it's cage and went on a walk about, there resulted new dominance fighting between the dominant degu and the escapee. The best we can understand of this is that the escapee degu picks up many new scent markers that are outside of the experience and acquaintance of the degu still in the cage, which causes that "locked in" degu to feel like someone "new" has now invaded their territory. We, of course, know that this is not the case, but then we also know the exact number of degus we have in our home and that there are no more coming unless we buy them or they are born. However, we process and know this information in a very different way than degus do, and we see a bigger picture than they are aware of. So, for all Dusty know, Popcorn is now someone new, because she doesn't smell like her cage mate anymore. For degus, the smell of their mates is how they are distinguished, and all those smells are crucial to the balance of their relationships etc. and when that happens it is as if the memory board of Dusty has been completely wiped and she is now meeting someone she doesn't know. That helps to describe what has happened; now know that with time, patience and determination you can once again have two very happy degus. I should ask if you know their ages? Because if they are less than 18 months of age, that will mean that the adolescent/young adult upheaval that is typical of degus may yet remain on your horizons. Have a read through this deguworld.proboards.com/thread/17619/deguconverts-detailed-introductions-fighting-guideV and this deguworld.proboards.com/thread/17618/introductions-fighting-quick-guide and then ask any questions that may arise, or have already occurred to you as a result of anything you have already read. We will be here to help and encourage you!
|
|
|
Post by popcorn on May 16, 2015 20:41:36 GMT
Sorry to hear about your troubles, I'm afraid I have no personal experience of fighting but I just want to get a bit more information that may help us to deduce what may be going on! How old are dusty and popcorn? Are they definitely female (I think you said they were female) as they can easily be mis-sexed? What size cage are they in (dimensions, number of full levels and any partial ones)? Do they get any free range time? Does the seem to be in triggers for the fighting such as food, dust baths? Hi thanks for your reply, they are quite young 10months old approximately. They are females as far as I know. The cage is quite large, about 1.5 meters * 1 meter wide and about 1 meter tall. Food sometimes triggers aggression between them. They have a perch which they fight over as it is the tallest point in the cage.
|
|
|
Post by moletteuk on May 17, 2015 12:38:31 GMT
You might be able to help the situation by removing trigger points like favourite perches, double up on everything like that, two food bowls, two wheels, two hay bowls, choice of hang out and nest spots etc. Have a think about whether they are making use of all the cage and play around with arrangements to try to encourage this.
Dust baths can help neutralise and mix smells again if they both use the same bath before meeting up again (although strangley dust baths can be a trigger for some degus).
Since you have a nice big cage, if you are having to do temporary separations quite freqently it can help if you can rig up a meeting place on the same level, so put a vertical mesh divide (double layer if nesc) on one horizontal level so they can safely meet face to face. This can help you judge whether they are feeling inclined to make friends again.
How is the injured tail healing? it could potentially be an awkward place to heal well, so keep an eye on that.
|
|
|
Post by popcorn on May 21, 2015 20:54:29 GMT
Hi all and thanks to everyone above who contributed to the problem. Sorry I couldn't reply thanks individually to such great feedback. The latest update for all that are concerned... Popcorn & Dusty have now returned back to normal operation. They are both happy and cohabiting very well after the fighting and screeching. Some blood was spent injuries happened and the injuries were tracked to make sure that they didn't get serious have been noted as well.
I have seen a blood soake perch a torn tail base and and an injured paw during this process. I have comprehensively wire meshed the base of the cage at this stage with a fine mesh to prevent wire based injuries and both popcorn and dusty have now been contained.
Something that I found interesting during this process was that before the mesh it happened again! I.e. they both escaped through the hole in the previously and not mesh covered base which I had only time to put an obstrucion in place (Foolish I know) But it produced and interesting result.
I had to catch both of them in a short time after a hunt through the house and caught them both in a short time and plonked them both in tiny gerbil enclosure 450mm * 600mm height of 500mm fast. they had to just get used to it and be damned whilst I fixed the penhouse so to speak;)
They were so busy nibbling the bars and cuddling into each other in this shock enduced environment that they had to just get used to each other and when they got back inot their big cage they were less fighty and settled down a lot faster.
|
|
|
Post by deguconvert on May 22, 2015 14:08:12 GMT
Hmmm . . . I wonder if placing two fighting children in a closet and making them hug it out for a short period of time would bring about good will . . . I suspect it worked better with the degus than it would with kids. My kids would be livid, LOL! I can't get them to hug each other when they are on good terms.
|
|
|
Post by moletteuk on May 22, 2015 14:53:15 GMT
Good to hear things are going better.
I'm a bit confused about the base of the cage, does it have a mesh floor, or have you reinforced a solid but chewed floor with mesh to prevent escapes?
|
|
|
Post by popcorn on May 23, 2015 19:59:26 GMT
Good to hear things are going better. I'm a bit confused about the base of the cage, does it have a mesh floor, or have you reinforced a solid but chewed floor with mesh to prevent escapes? Plastic base, re-enforced it with a fine mesh wire moulded around the base. The mesh is fine enough for them not to catch their paws or tails in and has the added bonus of filtering out some of the waste below. Might be a bit difficult to clean though.
|
|
|
Post by moletteuk on May 24, 2015 14:38:09 GMT
OK, I see.
Longer term you might want to replace the plastic with wooden shelves.
|
|