Is Mouse going to be ok?

[floss]

Hi everyone I was wondering if anyone has a similar experience with their goo and could make any suggestions. 10 days ago I found one of my goos Mouse with a bite on one of her back leg joints (her knee if that's what's it's called) there had been bleeding but it had stopped when I found her. I soaked her back legs in cooled down salt water and started her on some antibiotics straight away (had plenty left) as I was concerned with the bite not being in a fleshy area and on a joint. Within 3 days the leg was swollen and wasn't going down but appeared to be getting worse so I booked her into the vets. The day after the vet said he didn't think it was broken as I suggested X-ray and painkillers. Mouse stopped using it completely around this point and wasn't weight bearing. The vet said a one off dose of painkillers and continuing with antibiotics was best as the bacterial infection was his concern. He injected mouse with painkillers and antibiotics and gave me another 5 days on antibiotics. I'm going back on Monday (tomorrow) as she is no better at all, in fact the joint appears more swollen than ever and seems red and sore but there are no open wounds. I'm hoping for X-ray and painkillers for more of an anti-inflamitory plus it is clearly hurting her. Also going to ask for a possible change in antibiotics if it's not broken. She is on Marbofloxcin. She is not her usual self as normally coming leaping out to us, she is withdrawn and lost weight (15g ) Can anyone suggest anything I'm not already doing? I will attached some photos of my poor Mouse. I started giving her probiotics as of yesterday as someone suggested on a fb group.

[deguconvert]

I think I would try doing an Epsom Salts soak once a day. Epsom salts are very helpful with inflammation and pain. I wouldn't replace the pain meds with it, you will need both. It is also helpful for drawing out any toxins of poisons that may be present. Use the Epsom Salts in the same amount and manner as you would use the table salt for a bathing solution.

You need to bump up her calories, so adding in some daily oats (steel cut, porridge, full grain) will help.

[ntg]

Did the vet have a good feel of the leg to see if there was any movement that shouldn't be there? Obviously this would be better with a bit of sedation to keep Mouse calm and make sure he isn't in discomfort when it's happening, but it can indicate a break. With it being right on the knee and there being no use our improvement of the leg, my immediate concern would be whether or not the tendons have been severed, as it's a very delicate area, with little protection from a bite.

It definitely sounds like an xray is a good idea, just to find out what is going on. There could be antibiotic resistance occurring but marbo is a newer antibiotic with fewer resistance issues than the ones normally prescribed so it would be a little unlucky for that to be the case. Perhaps the dose being increased could be needed (which doesn't come without risk but, from experience, it can be what's required to kick the infection) if there is any infection, it's worth talking to your vet about anyway.

[Karma]

My guy just had a bite on that same joint ..... It turned into an abcess (guaranteed it seemed to heal up fine so I didn't find it for weeks), I'm wondering if the swelling is either a bad break or infection that is not responding to the oral antibiotics. We had to open it, drain and flush it out.

Good luck.

[moletteuk]

I think metacam would be good as she is likely in some pain and the swelling could at least partly be inflammation. I've seen humans with knee injuries and they really swell up like a balloon. The only reason I can see for not giving metacam is that sometimes it takes too much pain away and they overuse the leg when they need to rest it.

Also, I agree with discussing a different antibiotic, but it's difficult when it's hard to know if the swelling is inflammation or infection.

I've had degus with knee injuries before (it's called the stifle on a degu), and my vet was able to manipulate the joint and get a good feel to the degree that she was fairly sure she could feel the kneecap slipping as the leg bent, so this type of examination is possible. I've also had a degu knee injury xrayed, which is always useful, even if it just puts your mind at rest there is no break.

Make sure she can eat well enough, if she needs to use a front leg to ballance she may be struggling to eat with only one front paw, so it might help to break food into smaller pieces and offer more high calorie things like seeds.

Also warmth from a heatpad is useful if they are feeling sorry for themselves, plus its cold anyway and she won't be running around for warmth.

[floss]

Thank you so much for your replies and experiences.

I actually thought of Epsom salts but them failed to research further if they were safe for goos, presuming they were not, bit silly of me. I use them with my horses and have a massive tub of the stuff at the yard.

I'm so worried about her, it appears more swollen today than the rest of the week. She's sort of holding it up and bending it inwards now.

The vet seemed to think she would be back using it within 5 days and a one off painkiller would be ok, although I did ask for Metcam. He did have feel of her leg, Mouse is our tamest goo and is very easy to handle although she clearly is in discomfort.

I hadn't thought of severed tendons you are correct about her balance, she is all over the place when she tries to clean herself and now also has a bit staining between her legs bless her as she wobbles when trying to clean herself (although i'm not overly worried about that yet).

If it is also an abscess i'm thinking it could have "walled off"" (like in humans) and the antibiotic doesn't work also for that reason.

I really didn't know whether to give her antibiotics today or not as the course the vet told me to give her was finished yesterday. In the end I decided too, as the "spare antibiotic" I have is exactly the same.

I thought the dose may be slightly low ?? - Marbofloxacin 20mg/ml at 0.06 ml for her usually 200g-210g (she is a petite goo)

She seems to be getting a little bit bullied by one of her cage mates, presumably because she is "weaker" I took her bullying cage mate out today and yesterday and returned at night and there is peace in the cage, poor Mouse has slept most of the day in her bed, she is usually stood at the door saying "let me out to play!".

I have started offering her critical care to keep her weight up and she gets a small blob of organic peanut butter everyday (as give her meds in it, I do keep a bag of oats next to the cage for bribery of the others and allow a small pinch, I will allow her a little more.

I have one of those solid heat mates you put in the microwave for a spoilt puppy that doesn't want it so I will make good use of it for the goos.

She has only every had one course of Baytril in the past and no other type of antibiotics so hoping it's not resistance, although I am not clued up on how resistance works (will have a read up when I have time)

I'm just worried now as taking her tomorrow evening and got a feeling if vet agrees to xray it will be Tuesday morning I have to take her back to actually have it.

There is one other thing, one of her two cage mates had a front tooth missing (broken off) the DAY AFTER her leg got bit, I mentioned this to the vet and he asked if I was sure it wasn't the same day as was concerned the piece of tooth may be in there. I had certainly not noticed it the day b4 but now starting to worry It was missing and in Mouses leg!! This will show up on an xray won't it?

I upload some pics

xx

[floss]

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[floss]

These were taken yesterday and it in a little worse today

[ntg]

Ouch that does look sore. All I know about the marbo I get prescribed is it's a brand called Marbocyl, it says injection (which from the internet suggests it's 10mg/ml) and my 250g lad originally was prescribed 0.1ml/day, which was doubled after a second outbreak of infection with no issues.

The wound may need lancing looking at it, but if a tooth is stuck in there then an xray should show it. It's a bit of a scary thought but it would make sense for the swelling and abscess.

Looking at how he's carrying his entire leg compared to his healthy one, the entire leg is hanging so it's probably just extremely sore rather than a severed tendon, I just tend to think of the worst possibilities. Definitely continue with the antibiotics and push for daily metacam though, that looks so sore for the poor love aand will help somewhat with the swelling.

Not to worry you, as the foot looks normal, but worst case scenario may be that he requires it amputating, so you'll need to be on the ball for any coldness in his foot/lower leg or strange colouring that might imply the tissue is dying. As I say, it looks okay on those photos but it's just something to keep an eye on.

[floss]

Thanks I will look out for the coldness and colour change.

Yes it is the injection stuff as vet said, he said it is diluted down so it can be administered orally. Presumably what is on the label is the strength after dilution.

I have been thinking of a 3 legged goo too, just worried that it's a raging bone infection or something and I'll loose her.

[Karma]

Eek ouch. I think that would be more considerd the ankle joint (the joint higher up is the stifle - I think ..... My guys problem is the one higher)

I don't like the reddness .... To me that seems like infection.

Resistance depends completely on the particular bacteria and has nothing to what antibiotics were given in the past (unless you didn't finish a course And let the infection continue unchecked).

[moletteuk]

Yeah, that looks sore, and I'm concerned that it is getting worse after 10 days, hope you get on well at the vets tonight. Upping the antibiotic dose sounds like an option, the only other thing you can do is the vet can take a sample of pus and have it tested by the lab to find out what bacteria it is - the vet then checks which antibiotics are known to kill that bacteria.

The Critical Care is a great idea, likewise removing the bullying goo during the day. The heatpad you have sounds like a Snugglesafe, which is ideal.

Keep an eye on the broken tooth growing back in and that the goo is able to control the overgrowth of the opposite tooth herself, otherwise it may need trimming, make sure there are lots of wooden sticks around.

[deguconvert]

I too think it is looking particularly nasty, and completely understand your concern. Please let us know how it goes at the vets. I hope they are more helpful today!

[floss]

Hi everyone, we are back from the vets and she has had another injection of Metcam and booked in for an xray Wed morning. I had the choice of leaving her overnight and all tomorrow (due to work commitments) so she could have the xray in the morning but I didn't want her left alone in her tiny travel cage for almost 24 hours.

No, I haven't got anyone to take her to the vet for me.

Vet said didn't speculate but agreed to xray first them move onto swabbing/diff antibiotics if it's not broken. It looks even worse again today so thinking it may burst soon (?) will keep a close eye on her as don't want her licking it.

I have been out to a late night pharmacy and just about to try some Epsom salts soaking.

Been told to continue with the Marbo for now. Made Mouse a critical care/peanut butter/ oat mix and I wanted to eat it!

Yep, got a snuggle safe and no never started a course of antibiotic and not finished them.

Thanks everyone.

[floss]

oh and the other goos tooth appears to be fine, I panicked at first them after some googling realised it was quite common. It's almost grown back completely now and the bottom tooth is the same as the one next to it (thank goodness)

[deguconvert]

I hope the soaking will be helpful. Poor Mouse, it must be so uncomfortable to have.

[floss]

She had about 3 minutes and then had enough, will try again tomorrow. She seemed to be panicking or was just fed up with me. I've just taken another picture b4 and after the soak, you can see the lump clearer and it has grown. They are not nice to look at.

[deguconvert]

How warm did you have the solution? I was thinking that to have any warmer than lukewarm would be uncomfortable. Yet to have to too much cooler would also be unpleasant. Perhaps to use an Epsom solution saturated wrap/plaster that you could envelope the joint in, and then let her rest in a warmed towel while the joint is wrapped, would help her?