floss
Foraging Degu
Posts: 86
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Post by floss on Dec 9, 2014 18:53:10 GMT
Been a few months since I have been on here but I really do find your help invaluable!
Friday morning my husband checked on our two of our goos Derik and Wilfred (both girls). Derik had a large chunk of his ear missing! He also had several bites all over him - all obviously from Wilfred. I found it really hard to clean but it wasn't bleeding, I found the bites= marks hard to look at because soon as I parted the hair Derek wanted to get down and away from me despite the temptation of oats.
I had some spare Baytril in the fridge so started Derik on a course as I was worried about infection to the ear and bites I couldn't really inspect I separated them for the day while I was at work and put them back together that evening. I have not seen them fight what so ever, they must have done it while I was at work or they are very quite fighters nad done it in the night! (Their bedroom is next to ours) I VERY rarely see them boxing let alone biting each other/full on fighting, in fact I have never seen this.
I was hoping as long as there was enough blood supply to the ear then it would heal and be fine after a course of antibiotics however yesterday it began to smell "fishy" so I got an appointment today at the local vets. A very good vet in my opinion but admittedly limited goo experience.
The vet thinks there may be damage in the ear as it looked scabby but Derik needs sedating so he can inspect properly and clean it up. He said he will clip the fur and have a good look at him, I am taking him back tomorrow afternoon and leaving him a few hours for this to be done.
The vet said he wasn't sure he needed antibiotics yet but I explained that I had started the course so would like to finish it (had 4 doses so far) will be 5th today. The vet thre the tiny bit of Baytril I had left and has given me MARBOFLOXACIN 0.2%. antibiotics, I have never heard of this but he said it was better than Baytril as was kinder to the liver. A quick Google search has brought up marbofloxacin is Marboxyl and some German sights that say " For marbofloxacin are so far only little experience , but they are positive" has anyone ever used this?? Makes me a little anxious its not Baytril. It also looks a thinner consistency than Baytril so I'm not sure mixing it into a smidge of peanut butter is going to work like Baytril for administration.
I have ordered some critical care and pro - biotics at the weekend and keeping a VERY close eye on them in the cage. I have also added more tunnels, despite having lots of toys and wood to chew on I have read this is a reason they can start fighting if there is not enough "hidy" places. The cage is relatively large and the other goos in the room are also female.
I have not allowed any sand baths since the ear incident.
Is there anything else I can be doing? Looking out for ?? Am I doing the right thing?
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Post by moletteuk on Dec 10, 2014 15:38:56 GMT
It sounds like you are doing everything you can to me. It must have been a shock to find injuries out of the blue like that. Small injuries to the outside of the ear are pretty common and usually heal by themselves, but if it goes deeper, it makes sense to have it looked at properly, although perhaps blood has run down into the ear making it look worse than it is. Another of our moderators, ntg, her vet routinely prescribes marbocyl (which I presume is the same as what you have) instead of baytril for her degus, so I don't think that is anything to worry about. Her vet normally prescribes 0.1ml but I'm not sure if that is at the same concentration as you have been given. Have you consulted our cage size guide? deguworld.proboards.com/thread/9396/forums-cage-size-recommendations It can really make a difference having more space. In the short term extra hidy places (as you mentioned) and also perches where only one degu can fit can help. Have you spent time watching them while not interacting with them to see if you can pick up on changes in their relationship and see if there are any triggers in the cage?
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Post by ntg on Dec 10, 2014 16:41:25 GMT
Yup, Gandi has been on Marbocyl (a brand of marbofloxacilin) for over a year without problems. Biggest benefit is that is has less cases of antibiotic resistance as it's a newer and less widely used AB than Baytril. Standard dose I couldn't tell you at the moment unless I've told molette at some point but I can ring my dad who's currently caring for them to double check the concentration of it tonight.
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floss
Foraging Degu
Posts: 86
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Post by floss on Dec 10, 2014 18:25:45 GMT
Dropped Derik at the vets today and collected him just now. He seems to have coped well with the anaesthetic and his ear looks much better on the inside, the vet said there was lots of blood and gunk in there. The ear appears to have been bit the inside and bit in the outside but not all the way through if that makes sense. Because the wounds n his back have had the hair cut away they look rather large now. The vet said there was no obvious signs of infection but keep on the antibiotics, he said they were deep but he couldn't stich as the would just get pulled out. moletteuk & ntg hi, yes it was a shock, considering they have never had any sort of squabble b4 let alone a nasty fight. The vet prescribed me 0.06ml twice a day at 0.2% MARBOFLOXACIN but I have given 0.1ml once a day - not because i'm being lazy but I have to mix it into a bit of peanut butter and porridge oats for him to eat and thinking he will be eating too much peanut butter! - I have syringed antibiotics but he finds it so stressful. Would be great if you could clarify if this is ok but don't worry if not, I will call my vet tmoz and check. The cage is a Sky X trial - spilt in the centre as another 3 girls live up top (long story but they can't mix as Derek had a seizure the two times we tried, so we stopped trying)we have added in lots of wooden ledges and perches just like you said. Lava ledges too I would really like to get Derek and Wilfred a sky x trail cage and the 3 girls above so they have one each all for themselves but that will really have to wait until we move house in Feb, physically not possible in our house at the minute, the one already takes up most of one room. Funny how you said about triggers, I do watch them lots (could spend all day doing it!)I bought one of these the other week for them www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B002GO0IEQ?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00 and it seems to make Wilfred really angry! He will pull and pull on it with his teeth sort of them growling (well a degu growel) making angry noises and waves his front arms about at it spinning them and has almost destroyed it. Whilst the other 3 girls haven't touched theirs. So I took this out yesterday as thought it can't be helping as it looked more like aggravation than enrichment. I'm thinking of leaving them separate tonight as the wounds are open on Dereks back - it means one of them will have to be in the travel cage though - what does anyone think??
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Post by ntg on Dec 11, 2014 1:31:52 GMT
Apparently mine is marbocyl injection and doesn't come with a concentration on the bottle, but, according to internet sources works out as 10mg/ml (or 1% solution). At 0.2% you'd expect that to be around 2mg/ml. In which case the dose would be totally fine if that is indeed the w/v.
Glad to hear the clean-up went well!
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Post by moletteuk on Dec 11, 2014 12:14:00 GMT
I think a cage each would help when you can manage it. Have you extended the half shelves into full shelves, that would make a difference in the mean time?
It's funny how they sometimes take offence at objects lol! Maybe she hates that the pieces spin and move. My lot love just natural plain sticks if you can get hold of some.
You might want to start a thread in the fighting area of the forum for the best advice on that side of things. It really is a case of watching and learning to interpret body language and honestly making your best guess at what to do and when. It could be that Derek is more likely to submit now she is injured, but on the other hand you do not want her stressed at all while she is healing and you don't want to risk further injury. Would it be possible to get hold of a temporary cage that is better than the travel cage, just to give you options, pets at home thickets cages crop up second hand on ebay and preloved fairly regularly.
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floss
Foraging Degu
Posts: 86
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Post by floss on Dec 12, 2014 19:57:24 GMT
I put them in together and so far things are looking ok! Derek looks more like himself. He did look a sorry state when it first happened. I have not extended the half shelf all the way across as the wheel is too big/tall (john hopwell one) but I have a hammock spread out up there plus loads of extra wooden shelves and little ledges. Bit addicted to buying them stuff! - wish I could make it I have recently sold two P@H cages real cheap on preloved thinking I will never need them after buying the big one! I will certainly start a thread in the other sections if they start scrapping again! Thanks for that ntg, I said to my husband I thought it was the injectable stuff as it is VERY potent and thin in consistency ....his answer was "you are not a vet" hehehehe - Derek has swallowed it though and the vet re-enforced his opinion it is better for them, and Derek is looking well **touches wood** so I'm very happy with it.
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floss
Foraging Degu
Posts: 86
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Post by floss on Dec 12, 2014 19:57:54 GMT
*she not he, sorry!
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