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Post by melissage on Sept 19, 2014 8:40:14 GMT
Hi everyone. I desperately need help. I house rescued degus. One of my degus, Scruffy, started fighting with the others seemingly because he had an odd blister in his eye. I took him to the vets and seperated him from the rest as the fighting was very bad with the intention of slowly reintroducing them after i came back from my holiday once his eye was better. My next door neighbour was looking after them whilst I was away. Anyway, somehow they managed to break through the barrier whilst I was away and get in with each other and are now living in harmony but Scruffy's foot is about 4x the size it was. I took him to the vet immediately and they gave me antibiotics for a week with painkillers. She then said if it doesn't get better after a week they will Xray it (which I am fine with) and if it's broken they will put him down! I've been researching it and everywhere says that it takes approx 6 weeks to heal and degus with broken legs can still live a happy life. He seems perfectly fine in himself apart from the foot and it will break my heart if I put him down and it is not necessary! Please, any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Melissa
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Post by ntg on Sept 19, 2014 8:52:23 GMT
If it's just a broken foot then there should be no need to get him put down, no idea what your vet is on about to be truly honest.
Is there any infection in the foot? Or has the swelling gone down a lot and appears more normal? A bad, totally unmanageable infection is the only reason I can think of for saying that. But with only a week of ABs it's too soon to say if the infection can't be managed.
How is Scruffy doing in himself now? Is he getting around a bit better? Eating and drinking okay? What area of the world are your from as I think a new vet may very well be on the cards. Hopefully someone can point you in the right direction for a good degu vet!
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Post by ntg on Sept 19, 2014 9:02:18 GMT
Just looked at your welcome post and saw you're from Kent! I had a look on the vet recommendations and this practice popped up www.montgomeryvets.co.uk . They say they have exotics vets which are, for obvious reasons, a good indicator of them being good with unusual animals like degus.
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Post by melissage on Sept 19, 2014 9:08:18 GMT
That's the thing, it's a specialist exotic pet vets and that was the degu vet! The thing is that I don't know how old he is and when I rescued him he was MASSIVE as they were feeding him salted peanuts and they had no exercise or anything. I've got his weight down and he looks a normal size again so I'm wondering if it's either a bite that's got infected, a broken foot or diabetes? He seemed miserable at first but now he is interacting fine with the other degus, when I give him his meds they all come up to him and check he's okay, eating fine etc he just can't/won't put his foot down. I live in Rochester in Kent, UK. I love him to bits and really don't want to get him put down when he in himself seems to be improving. His paw seemed to go down yesterday and then got bigger again.. I don't know if it actually did or if it was my brain hoping for the best!
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Post by ntg on Sept 19, 2014 9:22:49 GMT
Can you get a good quality image of the foot/leg? Preferably at different angles including front, sides and back so we can have a look. We obviously aren't trained vets but we do tend to know what looks worrying and what looks somewhat normal.
Your best way of keeping an eye on his progress is taking photos and comparing them as they'll give you a true indicator of if swelling is increasing again. If he's just finished the ABs and metacam then you may need to get some more meds.
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Post by melissage on Sept 19, 2014 9:25:36 GMT
Yes I just took some... how do I post a photo on here?
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Post by ntg on Sept 19, 2014 9:45:46 GMT
You'll need to upload them to an image sharer like photobucket/imgur and just use their ready-created links that start with img in square brackets to post them on here manually. Unfortunately our upload doesn't work properly due to a lack of storage space on the site.
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Post by melissage on Sept 19, 2014 10:11:59 GMT
Apologies for the glove - he bit me when he had problems with his eye and I became very ill afterwards.
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Post by ntg on Sept 19, 2014 11:05:27 GMT
Yikes that is huge and looks extremely painful, poor mite. He certainly needs some more meds for that, and probably will for a while.
My suggestion would be to have a frank discussion with the vet, as a broken leg isn't a death sentence for a degu, or try the vets that I posted before for a second opinion/see if they're better. Someone may come along with personal experience of a vet they trust in your area as well. Take someone with you, the more stubborn the better for vets - i.e. someone who won't back down - for a bit of moral support. And don't get totally discouraged if it takes a long time to get better. It's a huge trauma to break a bone and large amounts of swelling is totally normal.
If you haven't already, your best bet at getting him to rest his foot is limiting him to one level with no ledges to jump from and removing the wheel.
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Post by moletteuk on Sept 19, 2014 11:21:24 GMT
I agree that looks pretty sore. Did the vet give you some metacam for the pain?
Did the vet say why they thought it was so swollen - is it fluid cushioning the break, or is it infection?
I agree with ntg that it seems a bit odd to say they might need to put him to sleep. Worst case for the break itself would be amputating the leg, a decent exotics vet should be able to do this. A serious infection that got out of hand could certainly be life threatening, but you would see the degus general health rapidly decline if this were a problem.
Most vets don't mind you ringing them after you have had a consultation, so they shouldn't mind if you wanted to ring to clarify what is going on. My vet always says to ring to update them anyway. It's completely understandable that you might have been a bit upset and not taken everything in that was said.
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Post by melissage on Sept 19, 2014 11:24:29 GMT
I know, I feel really sorry for him and I want what is best for him but I don't feel getting him put down is best if he can get better - but then when I said that the vet made me feel like I didn't care about him and started talking about ethics - which is ultimately what I do care about. They are going to charge me £100 just for the X-ray and I will pay it if that's what needs to be done so it's not a matter of I don't care, even though this does seem a tad steep as I've heard other people expect it would be about £30 for an X-ray. I have lowered their hammock so he can just walk on to it and he's not going on any of the ledges/the wheel anyway. He is mostly just hopping around, sleeping in the hammock/in their little nesting box conversing with the other degus. I would be more than happy to spend the money on metacam etc and keeping him comfortable and giving him the meds if I knew he was going to get better. I just don't know what to do and Monday is D-day basically from what the vet was saying...
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Post by melissage on Sept 19, 2014 11:29:47 GMT
Yes, as I expected them gave me Metacam and Baytril. They said they weren't sure. The first vet said they may need to amputate and then the specialist degu vet said that it wouldn't be ethical. They also talked about a serious infection but he HAS been getting better in himself - his foot just looks horrendous. Even with the limping he seems to be himself - he's talking to all the other degus and they do their degu pile. A couple of them come up to get food out of my hand and take it to him which I've found so cute!
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Post by moletteuk on Sept 19, 2014 13:06:52 GMT
Don't let any vet pressure you, especially not into having him put to sleep. He's your degu. To be honest, since he is on baytril and metacam and acting OK in himself, personally, I would feel fairly comfortable with waiting and seeing for a little while. You would need to be proactive about the infection, and consider trying another antibiotic if the baytril does not work quite quickly.
£100 seems a lot for an xray, but it maybe includes anaesthetising him to get it done. I'm not sure what the thinking behind the xray is if they don't want to operate.
Do you know what happened to his foot?
I would consider a second opinion. You could at least ring the other practice and ask about their degu experience, get an idea how much an xray might cost. To me it's really important to have a vet you can communicate with and who will explain their thinking so you can take important decisions together, you need to be able to trust them and know that they care.
That is so sweet that the other degus are looking after him and actually amazing that they are taking him treats.
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Post by ntg on Sept 19, 2014 14:02:55 GMT
About the swelling (from human experience after breaking my ankle) huge amounts of swelling is normal in breaks like these. It's not always infection and the swelling can go on even after the bone itself is fixed, as the damaged tissue causes a lot of fluid build up and the drainage isn't as good. At times my ankle was up 2-3 times its normal size and that was with elevation, which isn't possible with degus.
Animals like degus can get around perfectly fine with three legs so I don't know why they would consider amputation unethical. You would want to make mods to the cage to make getting around easier (ramps and the likes) but I can see no reason why he shouldn't cope if the op went well.
I would say, from what you've said, get a second opinion. You need a vet you have a good rapport with as well as them being competent and, honestly, they sound like a piece of work who may not be an expert rather than someone who just knows a little more about the animal than others.
I can't say anything as far as the xray price goes. I already know my vet would overcharge for anything above a consult but they do know what they're talking about so I just stuck with them.
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Post by melissage on Sept 19, 2014 14:46:41 GMT
I have absolutely no idea how it happened as I was in Gran Canaria but he has a few cuts on that foot from where they would have been reintroducing themselves and deciding heirachy again, the little buggers! I work in healthcare so know how swollen it can all get. But I also know the complications of diabetes with feet so could it be the same with degus? The vet herself said it would take a few weeks to heal and then she gives me til this Monday to see if they're going to put him down. Doesn't make sense to me! I'm dog walking atm so will ring the other exotic vets when I'm done. She did say it would be because they have to put him under to do the xray but again, I don't know how old he is and know how that can go with older animals which is a worry too... Maybe they will change their minds if they see he is acting more himself.
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Post by uglibug on Sept 19, 2014 18:38:43 GMT
Just remember, they don't have the final say in what happens, you do. You know your animal better than anyone else and whether or not they are likely to recover.
We had a falling out with a vet over our elderly cat: they said it wasn't worth doing the op, we said it was. Ended up going to a different surgery and a different vet to get it sorted for him.
Don't give up and certainly don't be bullied into making an instant decision, you are entitled to take your pet home and think about things as long as he is not clearly suffering, and it sounds to me as if he is doing just fine on painkillers.
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Post by animalmadchloe on Sept 19, 2014 19:47:16 GMT
Personally I think it looks like a massive infection with alot of fluid swelling esp if you say there was a few cuts on it, it won't take long for an infection to take hold! The vet can surely offer a better option that being put to sleep that's terrible!! I know anesthetic has risks but touch wood two of mine have had anesthesia for teeth issues and been fine! I don't agree with what the vet says can you not try another? Xxx
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Post by melissage on Sept 19, 2014 19:53:33 GMT
So this is what I'm going to do at present- go on Monday, get the X-ray done and see if it's broken. If it is then I will ask them for more metacam and to give it another week or two.. or more. If he seems depressed (which he doesn't at the moment) or becomes very ill I will take it from there but I definitely want to give him more than a week... he's better off with a broken foot that could heal than being put down, surely? Obviously if it's an infection that's gone into his bloodstream and cannot be helped I'd have to get him put down but he seems to be improving so surely not? HOPEFULLY it's just a bad infection in his foot and nowhere else and keeping it clean and antibiotics will sort it out. Here's hoping. Thanks everyone for the support. The vet made me feel like I had no choice... and you guys have helped me realise there's hope.
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floss
Foraging Degu
Posts: 86
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Post by floss on Sept 19, 2014 20:04:44 GMT
I wouldn't take any vets words as gospel after some experiences I have had (non goo related)they are only human at the end of the day. Get a second opinion and shop around for xray prices if you are not happy as they can vary hugely, more expensive doesn't always mean better when It come to vets. Good luck to your you and your goo.
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Post by melissage on Sept 19, 2014 20:24:00 GMT
I have tried in regards to prices but I'd have to have a consultation first which would be £30 alone -.-
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