|
|
Post by Fessie on Aug 10, 2014 9:36:48 GMT
Apparently these are very timid Degus at the shelter, but I want to make them tame n such, but in their description - it says "4 different volunteers had to handle these guys at once! It was no easy feat!" I wonder - no, I DONT want to wonder how that went over! Due to the fact I just dont want to know how they sooo probably messed up.
But you look at these lil guys and they'll hiss at you : ( ! They are that uncomfortable, so I wan't to make it better for them. What are some of the things I can do to make it better? Any commercial cages from Petco (multi-level would probably be best I dont mind raking out a bit of cash for one...) or Petsmart so I can just stop by there and pick one up? I'm thinking of building a custom-made one for the degus with my shop teacher's help, but I just can't right now as well I'm not in school.
My worry is that when I go in to holding them for the first time, what am I going to do if they bite me? That's what I'm scared of. But they need to be handled and socialized.
|
|
|
|
Post by natnat899 on Aug 10, 2014 10:45:50 GMT
It sounds as if they first need to be used to a human presence.
It might be good to stand by their cage and talk to them for a while, showing that you are no threat to them, maybe feed them a few healthy treats if they come up to you. When they start to ignore you or show an interest (in a good way!), then put your hand in the cage lying palm up, but don't attempt to pick them up. If they nibble you a bit too hard (they may want to see what you are, and if you are edible!) then make a high pitched squeaking noise indicating "ouch, that hurt!". If they climb on you, then give them a healthy treat as a reward.
Degus are not normally aggressive animals, but will bite if threatened. Mine were used to handling and I've never had a problem, so other members with more experience will probably be able to give you some better advise. This is what I did with my chinchillas, as they are very shy creatures.
|
|
|
|
Post by saddlers on Aug 10, 2014 13:16:42 GMT
I agree, you may need to take your time with them, a majority of degus do not like being handled, unlike many other small animals. However they are not normally aggressive, it is very much taking the time to get them settled. I have 9 and only 1 of them is actually the type that likes fuss, maybe another 4 will tolerate a bit of a fuss now and again, and there are a couple that I still can't really get to pet, or even hold unless I have to for treatment etc.
However I have never been bitten without cause. They will give you a warning grunt normally if they are uneasy or not in the mood, and this may be what you are hearing. It is probably because they are just very scared. They can be extremely nervous creatures. It tends to be if you try and get them do something against their will, or if they think they need to defend themselves that you may get a nip.
Talk to them and just spend time next to the cage, and then offer treats and I am sure they will come around
|
|
|
|
Post by Fessie on Aug 10, 2014 23:34:25 GMT
I have two emergancy backup cages we used to house my rabbit in as he grew, but it doesnt have levels, it has just one as it has a little ramp, this may not be it, but it's similar - www.petco.com/product/106066/Petco-Bi-Level-Small-Animal-Habitat.aspx?CoreCat=MM_Ferret_CagesHabitatsI wanted to know if it was okay to give the degus this cage just in the meantime while I'm looking for new stuff for them eample their food which might have to be imported from VioVet, so that'll take some time to get here... Some people have said that mixing Chinchilla food with Guinea Pig food is good if you dont have a Degu-Mix avaible, and well I might have to do that. One of the ingredients will have to be Mollasess or else it just might have to have a lot of other GOOD stuff that deliutes the sugar, get what I mean? Every commercial guinea pig/chinchialla/ etca food on the petco and petsmart website has at least some sort of molassee ingredient in it, I'm pretty sure if not I'll look again. That's why I'm importing these two boy's food and getting them Beaphar XtraVital. (That's a good choice right?) Due to the shipping requirments when doing things internationally, I might have to make several seperate orders instead of one great big order. (From VioVet.) It sucks. ; / |
|
|
|
Post by winic1 on Aug 11, 2014 0:34:33 GMT
Unfortunately, with the plastic bottom that that cage has, it is not okay to put the two degus in it. They could chew through it in a matter of a few hours should they decide to. I'd also be very concerned with the spacing between the wire bars, most rabbit and guinea pig cages have too wide bar spacing, degus could possibly squeeze through.
If they are that shy of people, the first step is to simply get them used to you. Sit by them, talk gently to them, let them realize you are not a threat, you are not scary. Do not reach towards them, right now they think hands are scary, so reaching towards them will only reinforce that. Hands ARE scary, hands are just like the big predators coming to grab and eat you, like a hawk, like a fox.
Let them see that hands put good things into the cage, but at the opposite end from where they are, don't push it by putting things close. My degus love oats--plain, old fashioned oats for oatmeal (unflavored, no sugar) as a treat. Put a metal spoon with some oats in the tank, let them come up and eat them from the spoon, no hand holding it. As they learn that the spoon means oats, then try holding the spoon at the very end so when they come up for the oats, there is a hand nearby, yet the association is yummy oats. Gradually hold the spoon farther up so that the hand is closer and closer to the oats, then start putting the oats IN your hand, and just holding it in there, still, for them to eat from the hand. If they have been badly scared or mishandled before, as it seems if they actually hiss at people, this could take days and days to get them to overcome their fear.
Most important, don't try to rush it, push it, or force it. Handling them when they are so afraid of people will not teach them to like it, best to let them get used to you and to come to you on their own terms.
|
|
|
|
Post by Fessie on Aug 11, 2014 0:54:18 GMT
Unfortunately, with the plastic bottom that that cage has, it is not okay to put the two degus in it. They could chew through it in a matter of a few hours should they decide to. I'd also be very concerned with the spacing between the wire bars, most rabbit and guinea pig cages have too wide bar spacing, degus could possibly squeeze through. If they are that shy of people, the first step is to simply get them used to you. Sit by them, talk gently to them, let them realize you are not a threat, you are not scary. Do not reach towards them, right now they think hands are scary, so reaching towards them will only reinforce that. Hands ARE scary, hands are just like the big predators coming to grab and eat you, like a hawk, like a fox. Let them see that hands put good things into the cage, but at the opposite end from where they are, don't push it by putting things close. My degus love oats--plain, old fashioned oats for oatmeal (unflavored, no sugar) as a treat. Put a metal spoon with some oats in the tank, let them come up and eat them from the spoon, no hand holding it. As they learn that the spoon means oats, then try holding the spoon at the very end so when they come up for the oats, there is a hand nearby, yet the association is yummy oats. Gradually hold the spoon farther up so that the hand is closer and closer to the oats, then start putting the oats IN your hand, and just holding it in there, still, for them to eat from the hand. If they have been badly scared or mishandled before, as it seems if they actually hiss at people, this could take days and days to get them to overcome their fear. Most important, don't try to rush it, push it, or force it. Handling them when they are so afraid of people will not teach them to like it, best to let them get used to you and to come to you on their own terms. Kay so something like www.ferret.com/item/ferret-nation-habitat-model-182-double-unit/650431/ Would be better? Something metal/iron or whatever and non-plastic, would be far suitable is what you're saying, right? |
|
|
|
Post by winic1 on Aug 11, 2014 1:01:07 GMT
Have you found the commercial foods ingredients list on this site yet? deguworld.proboards.com/thread/17365/commercial-food-chartThis chart gives you nutritional and ingredients for many commercially available foods, as well as comments on obvious good/bad points. Rather than import food, or even if you still wish to, you can get acceptable degu food via Amazon.com within a few days, we have used the Sunseed Vita Exotics Degu (nugget) for nearly 5 years now, and our two boys are doing fine on it. As for a ready made cage, there's the critter nation if you want one that meets CARA requirements and is all-metal so that degus can't chew their way out of it (the plastic trays it comes with go INSIDE the cage, so even if the goos chew it up, they can't escape). If you simply want to make their life better than the 10 gallon tank you said they were now in, Petco sells what they call their Rat Manor which is not big enough for permanent (life-long) residence, but would be an immediate improvement, and is all metal. We were considering getting a second one, taking the ends off of each and joining them together to make a much bigger cage for our goos, but then I found a critternation double on sale on Amazon and that's what we switched to. |
|
|
|
Post by winic1 on Aug 11, 2014 1:03:40 GMT
Yes, something without plastic. Degus are champion chewers, and there is no plastic cage bottom that is a match for them.
The ferret nation has 1" bar spacing, which might let them squeeze through. The Critter Nation is the same cage, but with 1/2" bar spacing. Unfortunately, that makes it cost more.
But yes, something that has metal all the way around. A plastic liner tray INSIDE is okay, they might destroy it if they take it in their little heads to chew on it, but at least they won't escape if there is metal outside the tray.
|
|
|
|
Post by winic1 on Aug 11, 2014 1:13:17 GMT
A tip for transferring the degus from their current cage to a new one, since they are so fearful of people and hands: get a small cardboard box, or a piece of cardboard tubing big enough for them to go into. Put it in the cage, let them go inside to explore, then quickly block off or close the end with another piece of cardboard or something like, then pick the box/tube up with degu inside, put into new cage, and open it up. That way they don't get traumatized by being chased & caught, and you don't have to lose any blood.
|
|
|
|
Post by Karma on Aug 11, 2014 1:50:35 GMT
Foods you could look for
sunseed degu, versele laga degu nature or crispy pellets (best choice), little friends (Martin) guinea pig Timothy pellets, living world healthy Timothy guinea pig (extrusion or regular pellets), living world Eco green guinea pig or chinchilla,
Any of the those should be available in the us (they all are available in canada)
The living world foods are made by Hagen so should be easy to get ..... They are seriously everywhere or easy to order in here in canada.
Good luck
|
|
|
|
Post by Fessie on Aug 12, 2014 13:06:22 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by Karma on Aug 12, 2014 13:11:45 GMT
Science select isn't great but it depends on what they are on now .... If it's something with sugar I would get it and order in something better if possible.
|
|
|
|
Post by Fessie on Aug 12, 2014 15:07:23 GMT
Science select isn't great but it depends on what they are on now .... If it's something with sugar I would get it and order in something better if possible. Well, Supreme Select doesnt have Molasses but it contains Calcium Iodate which is something in Guinea Pigs that causes bladder stones. Since Guinea Pigs and Degus are related (right?) I dont really feel it's good to give something that could harm Guinea Pigs -as well as Degus (possibly, probably, yes?)? Also, Select is Alfalfa-based, so they'd need unlimtited Timothy Hay (the Degus), right? I heard that Guinea Pigs need UNLIMITED supplies (as well as rabbits, etc.) of hay. (Timothy or Alfafa depending on ages). But for Degus & Chins this is never stated 'unlimited'. So, that's why I want to do research? Do Degus get bladder stones? Do they eliminate their vitamin C through their urine like Guinea Pigs? This is all stuff I heard from someone over YouTube that's owned Guinea Pigs for a very long time and I guess I can ask a veternarian about this stuff, but she said that (on YouTube - the person about the pigs,) Guinea Pigs should only have a percentage of 4 or less when it comes to calicum intake in their pellets. I dont know about Degus or Chinchillas, or how much research has been done on them, but I'd be willing to dive into their bodily functions to make sure they dont get sick. Then again - what vet is going to know any of this anyway? |
|
|
|
Post by Karma on Aug 12, 2014 17:41:02 GMT
Hmmmm I don't know that much about guinea pig for particulars in their diet but degus need a proper calcium ratio and most treats are very low in calcium so kidney stones is not something (I think) we have had problems with on this forum. That food actually has a low calcium/phosphorus ratio and hence why it's not recommended. This makes a lot of sense if Guinea pigs have problems with calcium and need a lower amount than degus. Hmmm m something to think about. Guinea pigs, degus and chinchillas are all related but each does have difference in diet and needs.
Degus do need unlimited hay (the only reason we really use pellets is for the trace minerals that we could give them if we have a wide enough variety of plants and leaves to feed them). Timothy is normally the first go too, but lots of people on here do alfafa and Timothy in rotations. Alfalfa is higher in calcium but also richer in protein and calories so it depends if you are having problems with weight and how their calcium load is in their food.
|
|
|
|
Post by Fessie on Aug 12, 2014 19:58:15 GMT
Hmmmm I don't know that much about guinea pig for particulars in their diet but degus need a proper calcium ratio and most treats are very low in calcium so kidney stones is not something (I think) we have had problems with on this forum. That food actually has a low calcium/phosphorus ratio and hence why it's not recommended. This makes a lot of sense if Guinea pigs have problems with calcium and need a lower amount than degus. Hmmm m something to think about. Guinea pigs, degus and chinchillas are all related but each does have difference in diet and needs. Degus do need unlimited hay (the only reason we really use pellets is for the trace minerals that we could give them if we have a wide enough variety of plants and leaves to feed them). Timothy is normally the first go too, but lots of people on here do alfafa and Timothy in rotations. Alfalfa is higher in calcium but also richer in protein and calories so it depends if you are having problems with weight and how their calcium load is in their food. So what your saying is that Degus dont' have any problems with stones and just have a 'normal' intake of calcium VS. Guinea Pigs who need you to be rather wary about their intakes while yes, their in the relation-area but they have different dietary needs and such? Well, if that's the case, I can feed Sience Select - oh. it's not really recommended, because of the low calcium/phosphorus ratios it has, - so your saying that degus need MORE than Guinea Pigs and pigs need LESS? What if I gave the Degus the Guinea Pig Sience Select, (which is alfalfa based) with unlimited timothy hay in their cages - then daily (morning, noon, night routinely) vegetables that are high in calcium? I dont see problems with that, because if it's LOW in calcium I dont see how that can HARM the Degus VS. a Guinea Pig getting TOO MUCH calcium. Maybe it's more like me drinking a bottle of soda vs. a carton of milk (and I'm talking about a small bottle of soda!). Then, later I go to pick up a toothbrush and brush my teeth away from all that sugar and maybe have a banana as a snack - so then, it wont be as bad on my body. Maybe, I could do a few exercises too. Well, you see what I mean? This analogy is trying to prove that if I balance out the bad stuff with the good stuff and just make it so they are varied and healthy... I dont see why having a teeny tiny ingredient thats 'bad' is that big of a deal, when I might have to ship from an oversea's website and the shipping would be 16$ USD! My dad wouldnt really like that, he doesnt even want me to build them a cage, so i have to go for a commerically-bought one instead. I'm going to try my best to give them the best they can get though until they are adopted! |
|
