Makoto is peeing blood!

[yasmin]

Someone in the cage, either Chuugi or Makoto, is peeing blood. I think it must be Makoto since he has been so sluggish lately and the vet felt something large in his intestine – vet thought it was just poo.

I'm tempted to give him some antibiotic and call the vet tomorrow when they open.

Any advice on what to do or what this could be would be appreciated. I am so, so worried.

[yasmin]

Observed him some more. He is acting more normally than he has in days. Eating hard food, sitting upright, looking trim and moving around normally – not at all sluggish. Could it be he passed a large poop (couldn't see anything odd at first glance) and that caused some superficial bleeding? I hope that's all this is. Have added the additional level to their cage and will now clean them and then watch for more blood.

(Tried giving antibiotic on sunflower seeds but Chuugi keeps stealing them. Makoto won't touch them.)

[anita]

dont know if it happens to goos but when my dog passed blood it was because she had passed a kidney stone!

[yasmin]

Hmmm. That's an interesting theory. I will look into that – find out if degus get kidney stones.

This morning there's more of this reddish pee all over the place. However, other than that, both Makoto and Chuugi seem to be acting close to normally. Am continuing with the Ovol to treat the bloating – could the Ovol be turning the pee this colour? I am also not 100% sure that it is Makoto, not Chuugi – so I plan to go home from work early today and keep a watch out to determine who for sure is having the issue. The vet is open tomorrow if I need to take one of them in.

[yasmin]

It's been more than 24 hours. The redness in the "pee" is getting brighter and is flecked with a small piece or two of bright red matter. It is Makoto who it's coming from. If "he" was a "she" I would suspect "she" was about to have a miscarriage – it looks like menstruation discharge.

Can degus get kidney stones? A friend of mine has guinea pigs and she says they can get kidney stones but that after the stone has passed the bleeding stops – it doesn't go on for 24 hours.

Makoto is acting as usual – very active, eating, chewing, not at all bloated – looking better than he has in days.

I called the vet. He was busy but the receptionist said she would talk to him and call me back. That was 12 hours ago. I haven't heard from them..

My vet is not in tomorrow but there are other vets on staff. If I bring him in, what can they do about this? I have antibiotics here – guess I will start him on them just in case it's some sort of bladder infection. I am also wary of having anyone other than Dr, Auger look at him – I have never lost a goo (or bird for that matter) after he put them under anesthesia, but I have with other doctors. And all I could imagine they would do is take an x-ray to see what that lump in his intestine might be. (Maybe it is not poo; maybe it's a tumor.) Would rather he be the one to do it. So perhaps I will try and get the next appointment I can with him – probably on Monday.

If anyone has any advice, please tell me. I am feeling quite desperate right now.

[yasmin]

Any ideas what this might be?

[moletteuk]

So sorry I wasn't around yesterday and you didn't have any support. How is he this morning?

I honestly don't know about the suspected blood in the urine. I can tell you that the vet will have urine test strips that test for all kinds of proteins and so on which give a good indication of whether there is a urine or kidney infection. There are some urine sticks that have about 10 tests on them, so they test for quite a surprising range of things. As you say, I think an xray could also be useful.

Yes, they can get kidney stones, although there isn't much information on this as the diets are usually too low in calcium for this to be a problem. As we increase the calcium in the diet to help teeth and bones, build up of calcium in the kidneys and possible stones is the trade off, so it's definitely a possibility.

You could always let one of the other vets just see Makoto, you don't necessarily need to worry about surgery just right now, I think that is definitely worst case scenario.

Thinking of you x

[yasmin]

Thank you so so much moletteuk. Just checked on him (it is near 7:30 am here right now) and he is still alive, sitting upright. Lots of "bloody" discharge all around the cage.

The vet opens at 8 am. I will call and see if someone there can test for urine/kidney or other infection.

[klbishop]

good luck a the vets today x

[moletteuk]

Did you get an appointment OK?

Do you think you could take a pee sample with you to save time? Maybe you could sterilise an old syringe (just boil it, the plastic should be fine) and then draw a sample up to take?

[yasmin]

Yes, I got an appointment and yes I did take a pee sample with me. Lined half their cage with waxed paper and cut out the bits with red dribble on it, and brought it with me. Also lined the carrier with waxed paper. And, like a good boy, Makoto peed a huge red pee in his carrier.

I had confirmed, before I made the appointment, that they were able to test the urine with a strip in order to see what sort of infection it was but all they did was a "Urine – Specific Gravity & Stix", and could only say that there was definitely blood in the urine and that it was likely he has some sort of infection – probably bladder but they weren't 100% sure of that. The vet did check him out and said that the bloating was totally gone – his intestines felt fine. So, back home I went with instructions to give him antibiotics (Baytril) twice a day – if there is still blood in the urine in three days, then I'm to bring him back.

Unfortunately, Makoto is incredibly difficult to give antibiotics to. He catches on quick and refuses any food with it on it – banana-flavoured or peanut-flavoured. Will keep on trying different foods to trick him into taking it himself; otherwise, we'll have to force feed it to him.

Thanks again for your help moletteuk, and for your support anita and kibishop. Will update this thread to report his progress.

[anita]

fingers crossed for you yasmin that the Baytril does the job

[moletteuk]

Hope you can get the baytril into him and that he responds quickly.

[animalmadchloe]

Hope that he gets better soon Xx

[yasmin]

Thanks.

There is no longer any blood in his urine and he is 100% back to his crazy/hyper self. Be surprised if I got even a drop of Baytril into him yesterday. This morning, couldn't get any into him – he is as feisty as ever. Kind of think it might have been a kidney stone. Seems the blood in his urine totally cleared up after he did a great big blood-filled pee at the vets on Saturday.

[anita]

Thats great news Yasmin I am so pleased he is ok now

[cheesecakeyum]

Hi Yasmin, just read all of this post - how frightening for you, but was glad to scroll to the bottom and hear that everything appears to be back to normal now. Must be a relief!

[moletteuk]

Really happy and relieved for you that he is totally back to normal

Maybe you could ask the vet for antibiotics to put in the water next time, since he only has one cage mate I think it's worth a try, although you don't want it to reduce the amount they drink.

I don't really know much about kidney stones, I think it's worth discussing with the vet if you get the opportunity. They seem to be quite common in guinea pigs and rabbits. Has he had sludgy urine, or strongly white urine when it dries? Here's a thing about stones in guinea pigs www.guinealynx.info/stones.html

Would you say Makoto has a taste for any particularly high calcium things? Does he drink less than the others?

[yasmin]

I will ask the vet about antibiotics for the water – any antibiotic other than Baytril would be worth a try. I have decided to discontinue the Baytril for now. Not much of it gets into him and it is causing us both a lot of stress. As well, if I can't get the full dosage into him and won't be able to keep up with the battle of medicating him twice a day for the 2 weeks prescribed, aren't I then creating an environment in his body perfect for the bacteria to become resistant to it? No antibiotic, no development of resistance and his body immune system is working to create the antibodies needed to fight off the infection now and in the future. If I notice him becoming lethargic again then I will try again. (Please make any counter arguments to this rationale. I don't know if it is my brain or my severely sleep-deprived condition that is making this up.)

Thanks for the article on kidney stones in guinea pigs. Makes me wonder if maybe I'm wrong about thinking he might have had a kidney stone because I have not noticed him having sludgy urine – other than these clot-like pink bits that showed up when he began peeing blood. Makoto has always been great at eating hay and greens, and he drinks normally (however, when he was sick he was drinking a lot). Some of my other degus have pee that dries white with calcium, but I never noticed it in Makoto and Chuugi's cage. As for a taste for high calcium foods, he does eat his greens – loves them.

[moletteuk]

I think with antibiotics, it should be a decent course or nothing, two weeks is long for an initial course though. My vet gives 7 days. Maybe it's worth completing 7 days, but I totally understand you stopping if he seems totally fine.

Maybe there isn't so much sludge with a kidney stone rather than a bladder stone IDK? The white pee always makes me wonder wether this is the body coping with excess minerals and peeing it out safely, or whether it's a sign it might be building up in the body as well. Maybe there are completely unrelated reasons why Makoto could have had blood in his urine.

Have you seen the calcium phosphorus chart for various greens on DIF? gator549.hostgator.com/~raven999/forums/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=1577&sid=4300c4d93041d889b3cd57df76f4ebb4